TiVo Moves to Bypass Cable

Thomas Hawk writes "TiVo is throwing in the towel on cable. According to CEO Mike Ramsay, 'offering service through one of the primary cable platforms is not the best way to grow our business at this time, because the economics are not very attractive, instead, we have decided to embrace the PC as our friend.' This may add to the complexity of an already convoluted message that TiVo has been criticized for being unable to articulate to the masses. In the same article TiVo says it plans to introduce a new line of recorders that will accept CableCards. The company has declined to say when new machines will be introduced or how much they will cost. Most significantly, there is still no elaboration as to whether this new standalone box will be able to record cable or satellite HDTV."

Comments

huh

[menace690]

What is a cable card?

So ...

[tim_mathews]

What's it do? If you don't hook it up to cable or satellite (unless you get a special card), it just becomes a fancy hard drive in a fancy box? Why do I need one again?

Lost

[confusion]

First, I am a huge Tivo fan. I've got 2 of em, and I would be lost without them.

Tivo's recent actions have left me pretty convinced that they're lost. They don't seem to have a cohesive business plan on how they are going to fend off all the "generic" pvr/dvr's that come free with cable or satellite service, or for the onslaught of PC based solutions.

Tivo certainly has refinement and ease of use in its court, but I can see that eroding quickly. They are having to keep adding new features under the same pricing model just to stay competetive.

Long live Tivo...

Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/

Re:Lost

[confusion]

When it came out, it was revolutionary. Right now, its the dominant player, and probably the most refined, to the point where my parents are comfortable using it.

The problem is that there really isn't much value proposition left. Tivo has been riding on reputation while the market has been changing. That happens over and over in the business world, but I'm sad to see it happen to my beloved Tivo. Tivo seems to be trying to play catch-up by doing things like tivo2go, and find a new niche, like the partnership with netflix. In the end, I think they got too comfortable with the Directv partnership and they got dropped on their butts, and now they are trying to find their way again.

But that's just my take on them.

Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/

Re:Lost

[Hollins]

I'm also a TiVo subscriber and huge fan.

The rub for me is that most competing PVR services are owned by companies that are also content creators or which have close ties with content providers. Look at the contractual relationship between Comcast and Viacom, for instance, or even DirectTV and the NFL. So I'm very suspicious of Comcast offering PVR service with my cable package while Viacom is lobbying congress for extensions to the broadcast flag.

I think it comes down to a question longevity. If TiVo dies, then I expect these other providers will begin crippling PVR features. However, after the broadcast flag becomes effective, Viacom may start pressuring Comcast to deploy DRM restrictions, at which point TiVo becomes the hero, and shores up market share.

Regardless, things don't look good for TiVo in the long term. Their hardware is a loss-leader that is entering the commodity realm, free software implementations of the same features are improving rapidly, and we seem to be converging on effective web services that can serve the data I currently pay a subscription fee for.

Re:Lost

[Merle Corey]

However, after the broadcast flag becomes effective, Viacom may start pressuring Comcast to deploy DRM restrictions, at which point TiVo becomes the hero, and shores up market share.

Ah, but you've forgotten about this.

TiVo has already demonstrated that they're perfectly willing to hop into bed with content providers so as to not make waves.

I'm a TiVo fan too, had my series one boxes for years now. Trusting that TiVo will do the right thing just because they're not part of a media conglomerate is a mistake.

MC

How about this

[yorkpaddy]

I doubt this is what Tivo will do. but, how would this work. Tivo could act like a cable provider, but use the internet as the transfer medium instead of coaxial cable. Networks could offer tivo shows which they could offer to their users. The users could watch the shows at any time based on their choosing. The super small cable channels (Outdoor life network, knitting central...) would love this. ? ... profit

No offense to everyone here

[Dancin_Santa]

But who cares? I don't want this to degenerate into some sort of "my tv show is the greatest" rah rah session, but what could possibly be on tv that is so good that it warrants recording?

It's not like tv became garbage overnight. It's been pretty bad for a while. What shows are there today that in 10 or 15 years people will be reminiscing about? Where are the Knight Riders, the Happy Days, the Sledge Hammers?

I look at the spring lineup and can't find a single thing that warrants shelling out the cash for something to record this trash. Am I watching the wrong channels?

Re:No offense to everyone here

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking Night Rider???? Please tell me you are trolling.

Re:No offense to everyone here

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I watching the wrong channels?

No, you're just making the common mistake of believing your cherished childhood entertainment was somehow better than what is available now. The shows you reminisce about are essentially trash. Just take the rosy glasses off of your hindeyes.

Don't be offended by this comment - everyone does it, me included.

Re:No offense to everyone here

[YggdrasilOS]

Your commentary about the quality of tv shows aside, you're kinda missing the point. TiVo isn't designed to archive, it's designed to time-shift. The whole point of TiVo is that you can watch what you want, when you want. You set it to record the shows you want to see, and then play them back at your leisure. So if they're running Futurama reruns at 0-dark-30 in the morning, fine and dandy. With TiVo, I can watch them the next morning with my cereal. In effect, it's a more flexible replacement for all those VCR's that have VCRPlus functionality.

I wouldn't pay $12 a month for TV _programming_

[melted]

Let alone for a service that allows me to record this poorly made chewing gum for brain. It's really scary to see that some folks pay $70 for TV and then go out and pay extra for this stuff. I sense a full-blown addiction there. It's deeply rooted, and it turns one's brains into propaganda receivers.

Re:Perhaps

[RedWizzard]

But... PC: You're on one Tuner card: $50-150 Hard Drive: $50 PVR Software: Negligible ----- Sticking it to TIVO and having your own PVR, priceless.

You've forgotten the CPU, RAM, video card, motherboard, case. Don't forget that you'll want it quiet so standard components (with fans) won't cut it. And most of the remotes that come with PC cards are crap so you'll need a better solution there. Not so cheap, or easy.

What Tivo is doing

[RebornData]

I think this is the ultimate acknowledgement that they have been unsucessful getting the cable companies to license / resell their technology. Tivo's obviously been trying to make themselves less threatening to content vendors by limiting PC interoperability. But, since "big cable" is for the most part not going with Tivo for DVR, the incentives for Tivo to kiss their asses has gone away.

Yes, it's a desperate attempt to stay in business... Tivo has realized that, aside from DirecTV, they're going to have to sell their own units on their own merits, and that they'd better close the gap in PC interoperability. Let's hope it's not too late.

Of course, it will be a cold day in hell before any of these new features makes it to my DirecTivo... DirecTV is as strict as any about content control.

-R

they need to diversify

[Dot_Killer]

They could try to move into the Windows arena and make software to compete with Windows Media PC. Sure there are Linux programs that act like TiVo, but Windows is bigger and that could carry them. Vendors could build these Media PCs and put TiVo software on there instead of Windows pvr software. Then they could build interoperability with the set-top.
TiVo is chasing volume, and with a tech device the best way to do that is put as many features people want in it and also allow for newer features to be added, some not even from the company itself.
Look at the way they half heartedly added the Media Option; pictures and mp3s, who cares.

They could save themselves, but do they want to.
For God's sake, put a damn fast ethernet port in the device.

Lost? We'll see...

[roshi]

I am also a big TiVo fan. I'm on my second unit, having given the first away to my sister to spread the love. I agree that a lot of their recent moves have been pretty worrying. I actually started putting together a MythTV box when the banner-ad-while-fast-forwarding announcement hit.

After some thought, I've decided to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. TiVo has a lot going for it. The user interface is brilliantly executed, both simple and powerful enough for anyone. TiVoToGo, especially if they get on the ball with Mac support and DVD burning (hopefully Mac DVD burning, as well, but I'm a realist :) just sweetens the deal, and will let me do literally everything I want with my TV content.

A bit more on topic WRT TFA, I'm pretty psyched for the Netflix/TiVo thing to actually materialize. There was a great quote on that topic from a bigwig at Netflix to the effect of (paraphrasing) "we always intended to deliver movies via the internet, we didn't name the company 'DVDs By Mail'." It says something about TiVo that it is the first product out there to fit the bill as a delivery vehicle for that dream.

As far as the Cable Cards and today's announcement go, it seems pretty sane to me. The cablecos are clearly dragging their feet on opening the set top boxes. Every day they do so, their crappy, barely usable DVR units and WinMCE gain ground on TiVo. So they have to do something to differentiate themselves in the meantime, until they can compete on a level playing field. And besides, they can always hijack the signal from the cableco STB just like they do now, so what's the loss (never-ending wait for HD aside)?

So I don't know, TiVo is one of those perpetually-going-out-of-business-companies-with-a -great-product, call it Apple Syndrome; but if they can continue to provide the excellent service and interface, and find ways to deliver more and better content, I'm pretty sanguine about their chances long term. ...and I guess I'll just have to learn to put up with the banner ads.

Re:Tivo...is a way of life!

[Anonymous Coward]

the person/people who designed that remote you love was ideo, a well known design firm in palo alto ca, my friend actually worked on it- so im glad you enjoy it- i'll pass it along...

on a much sadder note, tivo looks pretty hosed to me, i'm running a stand alone series two box head to head against the new comcast motorola dual tuner hi-def box, and while not perfect, it kicks the crap out of my old analog, single tuner tivo...i hope they're around long enough to get that cable card box to market...

Cable Company PVR Prices

[spleck]

I hate to buy something and still have to pay a monthly fee to use it ($99 for TiVo, then $12.95/mo), so I looked at the alternatives. I can pay the lifetime fee ($299+99= $398), buy a non service based PVR (Panasonic DMR-E85HS for $420) that uses TV-Guide and burns DVDs, or I can rent one from the cable company with no commitment. I figured what the hell, I can try that for a month, its only like $10...

I didn't get that far. First I would have to upgrade to "Digital Cable" adding $13 to my $42/mo standard cable. Then I have to pay $10/mo to rent the DVR, THEN I have to pay an EXTRA $5/mo to USE the DVR. For a grand total of $28/mo for a DVR, plus $42/mo for cable...

I think I'll just buy the Panasonic so I can archive shows, get a free guide, and it will still work even after all the companies file for bankruptcy. Any other suggestions that don't entail a system that requires my wife to wait for it to boot up?