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Classic Gerald Weinberg Essay Reprinted

danielread writes "Programmer abuse has been a popular topic recently, especially within the gaming industry. However, excessive overtime and overwork are not new problems for software professionals. Twenty years ago, acclaimed author Gerald Weinberg wrote an essay called 'Personal Chemistry and the Healthy Body,' which is as relevant for programmers today as it was two decades ago. Given this topic's recent resurgence, Mr. Weinberg was generous enough to let developer.* Magazine reprint this classic essay."

43 of 178 comments (clear)

  1. I read it... by Icarus1919 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I read the essay, but I couldn't find the passage where it talks about how essential caffeine is to programming. I think I'm going to have to go back and look harder...

  2. Self abuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I would have thought self abuse would have been more of a worry for geeks.

  3. I don't know about programmer abuse... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    but there is definitely some sys admin abuse going on here.

  4. Social Anxiety by Scoria · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Many of us have observed that "geeks" are often anxious in a social situation. Be sure to socialize often; if you cannot, then professional counseling may be in order. Social skills are essential in a business environment. You're only as confident as you feel, and by extension appear to others.

    --
    Do you like German cars?
    1. Re:Social Anxiety by B1ackDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with your point whole heartedly, but would like to stress that social skills are essential to a whole lot more than the business environment. I find it somewhat disheartening that so many "geeks" are actually proud of the basement dwelling stereotype they've acquired. We have been social animals for our whole evolution, after all.

      Also, the essay is quite good, and short. So, for all of you that haven't, go RTFA for once (disclaimer: I'm notorious for not following my own advice in many aspects.)

      --
      The snow doesn't give a soft white damn whom it touches. -- ee cummings
    2. Re:Social Anxiety by reflective+recursion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's not just computer-savvy geeks anymore. The trend is reaching into the mainstream now, with things like IM and cell phones.

      Take a walk around a college campus or a mall some time. If you see someone that is not walking with another person, they will usually have a cell phone in hand. You may wonder how that is anti-social, but the reason they have a cell phone is to hide behind it. Just like geeks hide behind the keyboard, "ordinary" people hide behind cell phones to avoid conversation with new and strange people.

      I'd bet good money that an increasing number of the people walking around with cell phones have anxiety when not using it. I would also wager that the act of just using a cell phone contributes to developing anxiety and anti-social behavior. Much like overusage of a computer does.

      --
      Dijkstra Considered Dead
    3. Re:Social Anxiety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I find it somewhat disheartening that so many "geeks" are actually proud of the basement dwelling stereotype they've acquired.

      Why not?? I was a "basement dweller" for a long time. OK, I didn't live in my parents' basement, but I spent most of my waking time doing computers. 10 years of that professionally and two cycles of hot market for computer contractors, I earned and saved enough money to retire at the age of 35. With my new found time, I started socializing, found a wife and started a family (and got back into work part-time to cover the bills comfortably)... Yeah, being a geek is awful... just awful... :-]

    4. Re:Social Anxiety by Fallingcow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Take a walk around a college campus or a mall some time. If you see someone that is not walking with another person, they will usually have a cell phone in hand.

      Lots of people on my campus use their cell phone walking between classes even when they are walking with another person. I've seen couples walking together, both of them on their cell phones at the same time.

    5. Re:Social Anxiety by darrylo · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I find it somewhat disheartening that so many "geeks" are actually proud of the basement dwelling stereotype they've acquired.

      They're all huddled around (what they think to be) "My Precious" .... ;-)

    6. Re:Social Anxiety by drooling-dog · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You may wonder how that is anti-social, but the reason they have a cell phone is to hide behind it.

      I've long suspected that this is true. Just walking through a campus or down a street is anxiogenic for many, many people. Every person they encounter is another social dilemma: Do I make eye contact, do I avert my glance in a possibly obvious and unfriendly way, etc. Not only does a cell phone give you something else to focus on, but it also projects the impression that you have friends, or at least that there's one person in the world who's willing to talk to you. It works whether there's anyone at the other end, or not.

    7. Re:Social Anxiety by macshit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm definitely someone you could describe as "anti-social", and I'm sure this is a negative thing for me in many ways, in a society where social connections are very important.

      I've thought about this a fair bit, and compared my reactions to that of outgoing friends -- and I've reached the conclusion that a large part of it is because I simply like people less(!): In equally stressful situations, the more outgoing person will put up with the stress, and the crap, because they want to be with people, but at some point I just say the hell with it, it's not worth it.

      Some of the above-mentioned outgoing friends complain endless about the people they hang out with. I'll ask "If you don't like them, then why hang out with them?" -- and there will be this weird feeling of mutual incomprehension, and they'll say "Well there's no-one else to hang out with, I don't want anybody to think I'm alone!"

      Onwards we stumble...

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    8. Re:Social Anxiety by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I agree with your point whole heartedly, but would like to stress that social skills are essential to a whole lot more than the business environment. I find it somewhat disheartening that so many "geeks" are actually proud of the basement dwelling stereotype they've acquired. We have been social animals for our whole evolution, after all.
      What's wrong with being a basement dweller? I find it very disheartening that being sociable or extroverted is perceived to be superior to being introverted. It's understandable... after all, you will get more fun out of another person if that person is sociable, and most leaders and other public, influential people are (necessarily) sociable. Good social skills are associated with success to the point where people will say "he will go far!" of someone with very good social skills but no other skills to speak of. And sadly, they are sometimes right.

      I'm not contesting that social skills are useful, and sometimes necessary for advancing a career. But many basement dwelling nerds are perfectly happy and functional members of our society (even if they prefer to spend as little time in it as they can). Isn't that what's important? I know a few people who are a bit anti-social: they often spend time with one or two friends at a time, but they simply do not function well in larger groups. They hate being in larger groups. And yet they make themselves go to parties and company functions, because that is what society expects of them (and your comment reflects that), even though the experience makes them thoroughly miserable. They would be perfectly happy individuals except for the fact that society makes them feel bad about their anti-social behaviour.

      My point is: social skills are often important to advance your career, and one would do well to take note of that fact. It's also very good to give being sociable a try... it never hurts to expand one's horizon in whatever direction, and you may find that you like the company of others after all! But don't let people like the parent poster make you leave your basement, if it makes you miserable and unhappy.
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    9. Re:Social Anxiety by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is called the spotlight fallacy, and is a special case of the broader fallacy Biased sample. Its shortest form is "between form A which is visible and form B which is not, all I ever see is form A, so surely form A is predominant." Of course everyone you know using cell phones also exists in the real world: if they didn't, you wouldn't know them.

      That's why chat rooms get the bad reputations: they're a quick line to people which don't use other communications media. Whereas sure there are some shut-ins on IRC, personally I've found the ratio to be far smaller than that of a moderately sized college class, DMV line, or other cross-social-barrier settings.

      Your observation is thusly flawed.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
  5. It was implied. by wasted · · Score: 2, Funny

    The author talked about the importance of personal chemistry. I guess he means that we need to be aware of our own personal chemical compositions, and make sure that we do not suffer from deficiencies of caffeine or other essential chemicals.

  6. I know abuse, but by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What are normal hours? When programming, sometimes you get into a zone and forget time. This is different from a 450lb CEO sitting in your cubical threatening to sit in your arms - to make you type faster. Or firing you for getting medical treatment.

    One is brought about by inspiration, the other is by bad management.

  7. Weinberg on Fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    Well, let's be honest with ourselves. It's fun to abuse our bodies once in a while. Who can honestly deny the seductiveness of a candy feast, a beverage binge, or an all-night work orgy?

    WTF? Once in a while I like to blow 300 bucks at the titty bar. Work all night? No way in hell.

    1. Re:Weinberg on Fun by grub · · Score: 3, Insightful


      WTF? Once in a while I like to blow 300 bucks at the titty bar.

      20 years ago it was easy for me to spend 3-4 nights a week at the pub, crawl home at 2 AM, sleep ~5 hours and get to work somewhat refreshed. Now (at 39) I can stay out once a month until 10 PM, sleep ~6 hours and get to work feeling like a bag of shit.

      Ah the ravages of age...

      --
      Trolling is a art,
  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. I want my games late! by 0x000000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I want my games way past their origional release date. Most of the time updates have allready come out to fix most major bugs, and game play has been further updated.

    Working people extremely hard only introduces bugs and causes your product to have flaws which for the first people to play it will make it an experience that is not worth it.

    Give the programmers some rest. They produce better products that way.

    --
    cat /dev/null > .signature
  10. good advice.. for those who can take it by evilmousse · · Score: 3, Insightful


    tfa seems like good advice. i've known people to whom a regular schedule came naturally, and i envy them to some degree.

    i've never felt right getting up before 10, and i've always wanted to stay up late. --ALL-- my life, but admittedly, less so lately as i'm approaching late 20s and for the most part have a daily routine.

    i dream one day we'll put rockets in the earth and slow the rotation so that we get 36 hour days. 12 work, 12 play, 12 sleep, THAT would come naturally to me. 8 of each just isn't enough in one day.

    1. Re:good advice.. for those who can take it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That study was debunked because they used artificial light in 30 hour cycles.

  11. Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A lot of us are simply introverts. It's just who we are. Extroverts seem convinced that we're "broken" and thus must be "fixed" with counselling, or medication, or whatever. I'd rather be alone than with a group of people I don't know. Small group of my friends? Fine, great, as long as it doesn't last forever.

    For the extroverts out there, I suggest you read Caring for Your Introvert.

  12. Alternatives? by mabu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People criticize the pseudo-xenophobic, anti-social nerd culture, but honestly, have you looked around at what's going on "outside?" I don't blame a lot of these guys for getting lost in the glow of a screen.

    I have subcontractors I work with. Some of them are brilliant coders and designers, but putting them in the boardroom would create a scene. OTOH, if I had these guys brush their hair and teeth more often and they discovered GURLS, their productivity would likely be exponentially reduced. They might have a more normal social experience, but they'd also likely sacrifice the uniqueness that their antisocial position has manifested that resulted in superior coding and design.

    I contend that the ultra-passionate are the ones that really create quantum change in our society, and often this is at the cost of pandering to many other socially-appropriate conventions. I'm not sure whether it's best to try to become more socially acceptable or work to dispell the notion that if you don't look or act "normal" you have no chance for advancement?

    Then again, I concede that how we treat ourselves is a reflection of how we treat others. I would have less faith in the code produced by a morbidly obsese programmer who obviously has no personal self control, than someone who wasn't as personally self-destructive and negligent, because you can bet their habits bleed into their work as well.

    1. Re:Alternatives? by dubl-u · · Score: 2, Informative
      They might have a more normal social experience, but they'd also likely sacrifice the uniqueness that their antisocial position has manifested that resulted in superior coding and design.

      Those interested in the relationship between "normal" mentality and things like creativity or productivity will enjoy reading these books:All present interesting portraits of people who are far from normal and wouldn't have it any other way. The second one is especially relvant to the Slashdot crowd as it covers people with Asperger's Syndrome and explicitly recommends computing as a career for the autistic.

      All of these made me once again question the current medical viewpoint that treats a pretty narrow range of capability and behavior as normal, and everything else to be medicatable. Especially after reading Thinking in Pictures, it was easy for me to imagine a world where the geek/autism range was normal, and the excessively social minority was encouraged to take medication to help them stop obsessing over trival details of other people's lives.

      Of course, I live in San Francisco, where between the artists, the geeks, and the outright freaks, we're not far away from that anyhow. Just last month the city council voted, more or less, to rename the Bay Bridge for our patron saint of weirdness, Emperor Norton the First.
    2. Re:Alternatives? by Stween · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your first link appears to be an unforunate copy of the second. Corrected here:

      Touched With Fire: Manic-Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperament

  13. Long hours != good software by imnoteddy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This buddy of mine was once working about five minutes from where I was working so one morning I called him up and said "Want to meet for lunch?" and he said "No, I've got a bug, can't take time for lunch." So I called him the next morning and asked him about lunch again. He said that he still had the bug and couldn't take tiime for lunch. I asked him if he'd fixed the bug by not going to lunch the previous day. After a long period of silence I asked him when I should pick him up for lunch. He bitched about the bug in the car, and then we talked about other things at lunch.

    When I talked to him the next morning he said he'd found the bug within an hour after getting back from lunch.

    I will let the reader find the moral to this story.

    --
    No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
    1. Re:Long hours != good software by stefanb · · Score: 4, Funny

      There was a bug in his salad?

  14. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  15. don't get it.. by Pfhreakaz0id · · Score: 3, Insightful

    10 years in coding/web design. Never had a job where I averaged more than 40 hours a week. Never had a week that I've worked more than 50. It's called comp time and setting boundaries. First time on a new job I'm asked to work late I say "let me check with my wife." and usually it's fine. Then I say "in the future, unless it is a true emergency, I need at least 1 day, preferable 2 days of notice to make arrangments.". Then, later that week, probably Friday, I'll say "I'm leaving early, 'cause I stayed late Tuesday." If they say a problem, I say, "
    well, I can take it next week". Note: DO NOT PHRASE THIS AS A QUESTION! Like "can I leave early". Just announce it.

    This has always worked for me, and frankly, I have no sympathy for people who work long hours and gripe. It's your choice.

    1. Re:don't get it.. by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      10 years in coding/web design. Never had a job where I averaged more than 40 hours a week.

      Wow, there's a surprise, an HTML jockey which both thinks they're a programmer and thinks they're exposed to the rigors of programming. Here's a hint: TEX isn't a programming language, PDF isn't a programming language, and type-1 postscript isn't a programming language. Neither is HTML. "But DHTML and and and" No, DHTML is HTML with DOM access. Until you add a language such as JavaScript, it's impotent.

      It's called comp time and setting boundaries.

      It's all well and good to say that, but when you're faced with an application crashing and the ship date looming, sometimes you just have to put your nose to the grindstone. Granted, general protection faults in the hands of the client aren't as damning as the challenges an HTML author faces, such as how to get the image to stop moving three pixels to the left under IE, but surely you can step down to the level of us lowly programmers and think in terms of trying to sell something which simply doesn't function?

      Then I say "in the future, unless it is a true emergency, I need at least 1 day, preferable 2 days of notice to make arrangments."

      You know, I'm certain when I call that phrase astoundingly arrogant and self-important you're going to knee-jerk assume that I mean that asserting one's rights is the problem. I'm not. What's uncomfortably presumptuous there are that 1) you think an employer doesn't know about these things, and 2) you think that an employer needs simple education from you.

      Here's a basic course in understanding the world around you. Employers know about things like comp time and respecting employee contracts. If you have the sort of employer which works a programmer 60 hours a week, what you just said not only wouldn't phase them, but would chalk you up for the first bus leaving the company for any other employer, because you're fairly transparently a troublemaker. If you have the sort of employer which doesn't do that, you've openly condescended to them because they once requested overtime from you (and for what it's worth, that they requested in the first place is a clear sign that what you said didn't need to be said at all.)

      If one of my employees said something like that to me, I'd begin evaluating their work caliber immediately. I don't overwork programmers at all, and have been known to force them to go home when they're on voluntary after hours. Nonetheless, what you just said would infuriate me: if it's an emergency, I can't schedule around your trivial ass, and frankly, being able to rely on you to stay long hours is what being salaried means: you work until the work is done, no longer, no shorter, which is why you're not being paid by the hour. Yes, if there's chronic overwork then the manager is screwing up, but if I'm asking you to stay late once a month, not only is that not abnormal, but the idea that I have to schedule it with you is inexcusable.

      If you're a salaried employee, you've already agreed to be available. Grow up.

      Then, later that week, probably Friday, I'll say "I'm leaving early, 'cause I stayed late Tuesday." If they say a problem, I say, "
      well, I can take it next week". Note: DO NOT PHRASE THIS AS A QUESTION! Like "can I leave early". Just announce it.


      If the office accepts that sort of thing you shouldn't need to tell them. If they don't, you've just dodged work and made yourself look like an ass.

      Comp time doesn't work on the weekly scale, and doesn't come in whenever you magically want it. Whether or not you believe you are ethically owed that time, you do not have the right to simply walk out; your salary indebts you to stay until the work is done, not until you've worked 40 hours, no matter how you want to casually misread the law. There is exactly one state in the union which caps work hours, and even then not only are salaried employees mostly exempt, but further

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    2. Re:don't get it.. by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know, out of the three industries I've worked in, programmers have by far been the least prone to complaint. Granted this balks a stereotype, and may be cultural - the industries I've worked in map directly to the cities I've lived in. Still, I worry that the tendency of mobs to agree has worsened your perception of an occupation unduly; the bulk of the programmers I've had the pleasure to know were, probably because it's their occupation, problem solvers. Amusingly, the only two programmers I've known which were prone to complaint were also the two which couldn't solve their own bugs.

      Again, it might just be coincidence. (As far as cutting them a check on the spot, maybe work with them a bit; I've also had problem employees with that sort of attitude because their previous employer's behavior taught them to distrust me without knowing me. Set your boundaries, but give them a chance, y'know? Some people, once their bubbles are burst, turn into reliable trustable workers despite early attitude problems.)

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
  16. Re:Oh grow up by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A few random points:

    1) Are you trying to be a prick, or does it just come naturally?

    2) The article can be applied to most of those "other professionals working long [shouldbeacommahere] thankless hours". Regardless of the nature of your job--so long as it requires even a modicum of creativity--overworking yourself may be less productive than working according to a sane schedule. In short, it's good advice for everybody, and doesn't amount to coders demanding special treatment.

    3) Is it really "getting ahead" if it means we die of stress-induced coronaries before the age of 50? On the bright side, at that point we don't really lose much. A couple of decades of neglect should be enough to dump anyone's personal life down the toilet.

    4) I think the major difference between you and me is that you appear to idolize the overachievers who put in 12-16 hour days to "get ahead", and seem to get really touchy when that lifestyle is called into question. Me, I consider them to be a bunch of morons who are driven by a mix of greed and ego.

    --

    You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  17. Agreed totally! by oz_canetoad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This marks my 22 year as a commercial programmer and my 26th as a programmer, and I have worked for many a large multi-national during that period. And I would have to agree with all his points, even today in our ever Politically Correct societies of the western world, appearence and presentation of one self accounts for more than one ability. Now don't get me wrong here you need the ability, but if candidate B is a better presented package externally you may find yourself at the bottom rung for a while.

    Additionally I have seen very capable people passed over time and time again, because they have painted themselves into a corner by making themselves, or the perception, indosposable in that possition. How many times have you worked with someone senior in position who hold all his/her cards close to their chest, never relinquishing any information. because as long as they are the keeper of information they are superior. Yet after a few years you are their manager! ;)

    Then their are those with all the talent, and NFI on how to act, or should I say interact. The only reason they even have a job or are tollerated is their technical prowess, yet they seem to wonder why they are overlooked when it comes time to advance. I wonder.

    All in all a good article and a good read.

  18. Software for Grown-Ups by imnoteddy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The most bug free software is written by the people who do the Space Shuttle onboard software:

    http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.ht ml

    --
    No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
  19. Whatever Happened to Unions? by ToAllPointsWest · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've never understood why the IT industry has been so adverse to Unions? Employers don't value employee rights unless there is a viable threat from a large number of employees suddenly stopping all work. We are long overdue rethinking this position and realize that the phrase, "wage slave" isn't a compliment.

    --
    They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist; They came for the Socialists, and I didn'
    1. Re:Whatever Happened to Unions? by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      [I've never understood why the IT industry has been so adverse (sic) to Unions?] Because unions usually force collective bargaining and oppose pay for merit. Programmers are mostly individualists and think that they're worth more than the next guy.

      Well how much longer until globalization changes that self-perception? Unions grew during the first half of the century because blue-collar labor was cheap and plentiful. The workers had no individual bargaining power because their skills were a dime-a-dozen. "Professionals" on the other hand were harder to come by and could rely on their relative rareness alone to keep them from being abused.

      But globalization has turned brains into a cheap commodity. Asia is cranking out graduates the way that Henry Ford learned how to crank out automobiles, turning cars into a commodity to be had by all instead of the luxury item they were before that.

      Unions take money from your paycheck to pay their own staff and to (often illegally) siphon money into left-wing political programs. They are a net drain on the economy.

      A small fee is better than zero job. Many other careers have built-in protections. Lawyers have law-school quotas for example to protect them from a flood of cheap foreign legal geniouses. If they can have protection from raw cheap-labor foreign competition, why can't we? Why are ONLY THEY entitled to protection?

      Should we have cheap programmers and expensive lawyers? Why? What is the fairness or logic for that? Businesses can lower their costs and sell products for cheaper if their legal rates were lower. And cheaper products are magically going to make us all better off, remember? So, lets globally fuck lawyers also so that our products are cheaper. OKay?

    2. Re:Whatever Happened to Unions? by God!+Awful+2 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I've never understood why the IT industry has been so adverse (sic) to Unions?
      s
      Because unions usually force collective bargaining and oppose pay for merit. Programmers are mostly individualists and think that they're worth more than the next guy.

      Why is this modded "flamebait"? That seemed like a dead-on comment. I have never observed much sympathy for unions among programmers, and an individualistic streak would appear to be the reason.

      Now my own insight into the effect of 10+ hour days:

      I work at a company where it is the norm for developers to work overtime. On any given day, probably 50% of developers will stay late. Now the question is, will this help or hurt your career.

      I can see no evidence of anyone's career being held back because they worked too hard. On the other hand, does it help your career? The answer appears to be yes, but not by very much. Most people get promoted either because they are the most technically competant or because they do the best job of promoting themselves to the boss. Working extra-hard may get you a raise or some stock options, but it won't get you promoted.

      The reason is because the people in positions of authority are the ones who are called upon to exercise good judgement. Working overtime is a sign of dedication, but it doesn't do anything to prove why you should be the one to make the tough decisions.

      -a
    3. Re:Whatever Happened to Unions? by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But globalization has turned brains into a cheap commodity.

      Briefly, sure. Engineers in California said the same thing after Promontory, when suddenly educated men from the eastern seaboard came flooding into an area which previously had been dominated by prospectors. Suddenly, Californian engineers weren't rare and precious, and in fact weren't even any longer the unquestionable best; nationalization had, in their eyes, made brains a commodity.

      Thing is, it didn't last. That people could be shipped place to place didn't change the need for brains, nor did it change the commonality of brains among people; it just more evenly distributed the pressure difference between supply and demand.

      An easier example was the inflow of Korean, Thai and Indonesian programmers into Japan in the late 80s, when it was chic for an American to look down their nose at the Japanese resistance to immigrant labor as racist, citing our own history (as if the H1-B sentiments these days are somehow different.) In economic terms, their situation paralleled our own: a wealthy nation with an artificial work shortage created by the collapse of a bubble and the unwillingness of domestic labor to take realistic salaries (my friend is currently bitching that he's leaving a $120k/y web design job for a $100k/y design job; he sits on his ass all day playing video games at work) sees an abundance of bright, educated people in a poorer nation willing to work themselves to the bone in order to get what are to them preposterous foreign salaries. It was as frequent for Indonesians to work five years in Japan and retire wealthy, which Americans thought was smart, as it currently is for Indians to do the same, which Americans think is dirty pool. (Absconding with Japanese economy is witty; with American economy it's cheating instead.)

      Lawyers have law-school quotas for example to protect them from a flood of cheap foreign legal geniouses

      Uh, no, law schools have quotas to protect their reputations as difficult-to-reach goals, allowing their name to become a point of pride and therefore a valuable commodity when getting a job, in turn allowing the school to inflate the price of tuition drastically. You'll notice that second-rate law schools, such as the law school at your local pretty-good university which doesn't focus on law, rarely has such a quota in an undergraduate program. (Everyone has those quotas on graduate programs, but for different reasons: you really do need to control the number of graduate students, to make sure faculty have the appropriate amount of time to cultivate them into professionals; a faculty member frequently struggles with a third graduate. As my father's a college professor, I'm not speaking from ignorance.)

      It's pretty standard issue scarcity tactics to inflate demand and therefore price. Ask a Nintendo sales rep how it works; they are the unchallenged masters of the tactic. (Note please that their central DS factory line was complete in October, and is currently cranking out more DSes per week than were demanded during the holiday season; nonetheless there was a holiday demand so bad that lines were hours long and some people simply couldn't get the toy. There was no need for that; Nintendo had the production capacity to fulfill almost triple the actual demand. However, if they were easy to get, nobody could brag that they had one first, and then fewer kids would want them as a social point, dropping console sales dramatically. This is also the basis of Sony's marketing attack on the Dreamcast, wherein the specs for the PS2 were announced the day before Dreamcast sales opened.)

      If they can have protection from raw cheap-labor foreign competition, why can't we?

      I'm not sure how capping input into law schools prevents foreign lawyers; you do not need to have gone to law school to take the bar. Any person with a good local library can become a lawyer relatively easily; one of my friends became a patent lawyer in order to register so

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    4. Re:Whatever Happened to Unions? by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Informative

      and the unwillingness of domestic labor to take realistic salaries

      Salaries are generally not negotiable. They are paid based on perceptions, not on supply-and-demand bidding. I bid real low once to get my foot into a new technology. It did not work.

      I'm not sure how capping input into law schools prevents foreign lawyers; you do not need to have gone to law school to take the bar.

      The BAR is a quota (protection) technique also.

      In the form of rationed work visas, rationed immigration, domestic contract quotas, laws governing foreign work distribution, taxes, tariffs, incentives and programs, we have that protection.

      Are you suggesting we let every Tom, Dick, and Hari in? Why bother then to have "citizens"? Plus, other countries usually have very strict work visa systems. They don't swing open their gates, so why should we do the same?

  20. Morals without reasons by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From the article: "I don't believe people should do things for reasons they don't understand--things like looking healthy, eating spinach, or avoiding GO TO statements. Rules without reasons focus on the appearance of things, not the substance."

    No, rules without reasons help a person develop healthy habits and to benefit from them before he learns the reasons for them. That can come in its own good time.

    It rarely does any good to try to explain to a child why he should eat his spinach, you just get him to eat it. By the time he understands why it's good for him he's in the habit of eating it and has benefited from the nutrition in the meantime.

    A novice programmer might not understand why GOTOs are to be reserved for a small number of special situations, but you impose standards enforced via peer review that makes him avoid them when unnecessary anyway. By the time he understands why they're undesireable he's accustomed to coding without them to the point where it's become second nature, and in the meantime the code he's written is more maintainable by others.

    Insisting that people learn the reasons for moral (or otherwise desireable) behavior before they adopt those behaviors is simply not workable in the real world.

    --
    And the brethren went away edified.
  21. Attack Symptoms? Set Your Priorities First by buckhead_buddy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    • Many school teachers find their reward in working with pupils rather than large salaries or advancing in administrative roles.
    • Directors like Peter Jackson (of Lord of the Rings) find their satisfaction in telling their story rather than advancing in superficial Hollywood circles or sleeping every day.
    • Many nurses and medical technicians are attracted more to the ability to heal and ease others physical pain than large doctor salaries or authoring articles for journals
    • Many same-sex couples find the loving bond of a relationship to be worth the social stigma, lack of legal recognition, and difficulty in producing off-spring.
    While this fellow makes some good points as to how to "fit in" to the superficial business world, a wise person will sit down and decide whether fitting in will actually help in advancing the goals and satisfactions of their life. It's fortunate that different people have different goals and if you need the money of a tech lead or team manager to meet yours then definitely pay attention to this advice. But if your goals and life priorities are different, think about what you can do to help meet them and whether or not this advice still applies.
    1. Re:Attack Symptoms? Set Your Priorities First by xouumalperxe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the article seemed to me to be mostly about one small point: you'll be far better off if you keep yourself healthy. It's not a matter of being accepted per se. It's noting that 1. being accepted is a great big part of rising in whatever area you work in and 2. being (and looking) healthy go a great way towards being accepted. Hence 3. Being healthy is rather fine start towards whatever other aim you might have.

  22. Re:Sales is where it is at, dude. by Black+Acid · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I am solely in sales since I have morals (which is ironic, since I have no religion).

    That's not ironic. Morals can exist without an omniescent being dictating them.