Linux Looms Large in DVRs, PVRs

An anonymous reader writes "According to an article at LinuxDevices there's a new fanless digital entertainment center reference design based on Linux and the MythTV open source DVR (digital video recorder) software. The 'Royal Linux Media Center' runs ESG's Royal Linux OS on a Transmeta development board based on its Efficeon chip. Linux has been increasingly popular in DVRs and PVRs, with examples including TiVo (of course), HP's recently unveiled Linux media hub, i3's Mood box, Interact-TV's Telly, Siemens' Speedstream, VWB's MediaReady 4000, Amino's AmiNet500, Sharp's Galileo, Dream-Multimedia-Tv's Dreambox, NEC's AX10, and Sony's CoCoon, to name a few."

Comments

Might DRM be the mighty blow?

[PornMaster]

Linux is well poised for the appliance market... but I have to wonder when DRM and the DMCA will make it difficult, if not impossible, to provide the services on Linux needed to compete in the media space if DRM gets in the way. The simple way, I guess, is to put the DRM enforcement into hardware, but I think that leaves us all worse off in the end.

Dish Network

[Microlith]

IIRC, Dish also uses linux in all of their set top boxes, including their DVR units.

So yeah, linux seems seriously popular in the various DVRs that are available. Is there a source that lists known hacks/mods available for them?

Re:Dish Network

[dj245]

Is there a source that lists known hacks/mods available for them?

I doubt it, considering that they download updates all the time. I recently got an autoupdate that added DishPass (Like Tivo SeasonPass I guess, I don't have a Tivo) and 3 new recording functions for my Dishplayer 522 (proclaimed by many to be the best value PVR at a piddling $5 a month and no one-time fee). Its good to see companies give us some value for our monthly fees in the form of new features. But it probably breaks any modding anyone would hope to do with all the integration with the central servers.

DRM Might be the mighty blow.

[SanityInAnarchy]

You are right, DRM enforcement in hardware is worse off. Palladium / Trusted Computing, in whatever incarnation, is still being pushed at us, this time as a way of supposedly making a computer more secure. If successful, it would either:

1.) Make Linux buy a license for every version of binary that we use. Licenses would be controlled by Microsoft, so this would be prohibitively expensive, unless we can all settle on a single binary kernel, essentially making Linux proprietary -- as in, individual users can no longer alter it to meet their needs without dropping the DRM support.

2.) Ignore DRM. Hopefully consumers will follow suit, and these devices are critical. If we don't let the industry impose its own standards, we can still watch movies with our own software. How are people going to react when their Terminator 4 doesn't work on their Linux-based DVD player? Especially with the quality of movies so low recently -- I'd sell my soul and buy an Xbox for Halo 2, but no way I'll sell out Linux for Blade: Trinity.

Putting DRM in software at least allows someone to crack it and provide other software. Putting DRM in hardware would make it, to my knowledge, impossible to break without some serious hardware cracking. The difference is that Joe Blow can break CSS by downloading a DeCSS-enabled mplayer, but he can't break Trusted Computing, because he can't "download" a modded Trusted Computer. And a "Trusted Computer" would be harder to mod than, say, an Xbox.

Make it, I'll buy it

[pchan-]

Someone out there make a streamlined tivo-like box (using the reference board above), having the following properties:

1) Slick design. Not a computer in a funny case, something with a home electronics feel. Fanless!
2) Good remote control.
3) Hardware MPEG4 encoding/decoding
4) Open source tivo-like software (not mythtv, something usable).
5) Quality TV output and sound hookups.
6) Open firmware (no DRM, no proprietary files, no restrictions, hardware documentation provided).
7) Ethernet and/or wifi and/or USB.

I'll buy it. I'll buy two, one for my parents. It should work out of the box like a tivo, but be hackable by anyone that desires to do so. Make your money selling the hardware, not subscriptions. The community will take care of improving the software (which will make your hardware even more attractive).

Re:Make it, I'll buy it

[BikeRacer]

How about a mac mini? It's pretty close on points 1, 4, and 7.

Re:Make it, I'll buy it

[FunFactor100]

Make money from the hardware and not subscriptions? Where's the content going to come from? Free downloads? Look at what happened with mp3's....companies tried to make money selling mp3 players for our free music....the music industry tained the P2P networks...and then apple introduces the ipod and itunes.....now they're making money hand over fist with itunes. Why go through the hassle of bad mp3's, viruses, popups, spyware when you can pay a reasonable amount for just the songs you want. The same will happen with movies and tv...it's innevitable. I predict some big company will make a kick-ass set top box that allows you to pay for each show you want to watch....whenever you want to watch it. Sure they already have video on demand....but it's only a fraction of the content out there that's available. With a secure pay based P2P network all the movies ever made can be hosted and delivered accross the network of set top boxes. Bye bye DVD's and Blockbuster Video. I'd be doing this myself, if only I had movie industry connections. Sorry dude, but the shows won't get made unless someone pays for more than just the hardware.

Re:Make it, I'll buy it

[evilviper]

1) Slick design. Not a computer in a funny case, something with a home electronics feel. Fanless!

You know, a lot of DVD players out there (perhaps one you own) are just fanless computers in funny cases.

3) Hardware MPEG4 encoding/decoding

I've found that hardware encoders are complete crap in general. With good software codecs, you can get better quality, in something like 1/4 the space.

Most people have only used Divx/Xvid, and think a CPU isn't fast enough for realtime MPEG-4 encoding. Use anything based on libavcodec, and you'll see that even a processor that's cool enough to run fanless could do realtime MPEG-4 encoding, at very good quality.

Re:Make it, I'll buy it

[Grishnakh]

Sorry dude, but the shows won't get made unless someone pays for more than just the hardware.

The shows are already being made, hundreds of channels worth, for free. They're being broadcast over the air, and on cable. We already have to pay for cable subscriptions. What makes you think we need to pay for access to the shows when we already get them for free?

Similarly, CDs are selling now in record numbers, even with the growing popularity of MP3 players.

Re:Make it, I'll buy it

[Grishnakh]

"Hackability" is definitely not a volume feature. "Open" is not a margin feature for software, either

Hackability and openness don't add cost, as you seem to be implying. In fact, making something "unhackable" adds cost to development. Making it "hackable" just means not adding extra mechanisms to make it difficult or impossible to modify it.

Keeping it closed may arguably increase profits later, but this does add extra cost up-front.

Personally, I think all this new PVR stuff is crap; I'm going to build a MythTV box with a separate backend, which is something you'll never see commercially available. This is one of the most intelligent things about Myth: the separation of the frontend and the backend, so you can put the tuner cards and the noisy hard drives on a separate computer in a closet or wherever, and just use a simple, small, low-power, fanless EPIA-based system with hardware MPEG2 decoding in the room with the TV. The benefits multiply with this scheme: you can store recordings on the central server, and watch them on any TV in the house. And the incremental cost is small: just add another EPIA board with network booting for each TV.

DREAMBOX is AWESOME

[cRueLio]

I have a Dreambox and let's just say that it has some *ahem* special capabilities when it comes to satellite television. And of course, it runs Linux (currently an unpatched 2.6.9-rc1 ppc kernel). Good stuff.
It's DVR capabilities are also improving daily, thanks to an active CVS repository where Enigma, (which is like MythTV) is being developed by people all over the world.
Visit my forum Open Dreambox North America for specific info for usage in the states and canada :)

My TV runs Linux

[timbck2]

Seriously. I bought a Sony HDTV LCD projection TV for Christmas, and was surprised to see that it came with a GPL. It's running one of the real-time embedded Linux platforms (I forget which one).

Re:My TV runs Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I call bullshit. Which model is then TV? Give us a link.

Comcast PVR

[CmdrSanity]

The one problem I have had \w PVRs is getting the digital channels to work correctly. My old tivo wouldnt do this (maybe series 2 does?).

Anyways, I recently joined the beta program for the Comcast PVR. It is actually running a stripped-down version of windows media center. Now, I hate comcast, but I have to admit this device solves all the problems I had \w my Tivo. 1) the digital channels work 2) the recommendations are less silly 3) it only cost 4 dollars a month extra. I would *much* rather give my money to tivo, but comcast will have them beat once this device goes public.

Re:and still no ATI AIW support

[mbourgon]

Couple thoughts
1) if you have a beefy enough computer, hardware encoding is not really necessary, especially if you just want to "try out some of the linux solutions". Buy any number of the BT878-based TV cards and try with that. I know the TV Wonder VE used to go for about $30. Granted, it's mono, but I'm sure there's other stuff, cheaper. I remember Isaac mentioning that a 1700mhz machine was almost enough to record two streams and play one simultaneously.

2) The idea for your "ppc-based" box makes a lot of sense, too, and I'm curious to see what people will do with it, PVR-wise.

3) MediaMVP - you might want to look at the PrismIQ. I know the GUI is a lot better, and I think it has some features the MVP doesn't. Unfortunately, I believe both require some software running on another computer. (And neither supports MPEG4 natively, the prismiq uses the server computer to transcode). Oh, and the big annoyance on both - NO PCM AUDIO. Means that iMovie-based DVDs can't be ripped and played - you need to convert them to something else. Not a huge deal, but a deal nonetheless.