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Newsy Numbers

EriDay writes "The Wall Street Journal has a new feature called The Numbers Guy about "the way numbers and statistics are used - and abused - in the news, business and politics". The first installment lets us know that somewhere between 0 and 1 Billion (or more) people will be killed by Asian bird flu."

12 of 332 comments (clear)

  1. quote by sometwo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain

    Of course 70% of statistics are indeed made up.

  2. Hello PR Stunt! by torinth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This column is just an superficial attempt by the WSJ to combat the "news is junk" meme that's been building over the last few years. They're trying to make it look like: "hell, we've got people who write fricking columns about statistical manipulation!" so that you don't think the rest of their paper prints it.

    But odds are that in todays super-competitive least-necessary-change news market the WSJ has done nothing substantial to improve the accuracy of their paper and instead just inserted a column to improve the image.

    1. Re:Hello PR Stunt! by Qrlx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll add my voice to the chorus here. WSJ is one of the "fairer" newspapers out there. I don't take this extreme a view, but a friend of mine feels that the WSJ and the Christian Science Monitor are the only American newspapers worth reading. Actually he said English-language papers worth reading, but I can't remember which foreign papers he included. Might have been the FT, not sure.

      Try reading the WSJ someday. Just the little "In The News" grayed-in section on the front page contains more information than you'll see on TV that day.

      I am a flaming liberal socialist and even I like the WSJ. They are honest. Kind of like The Economist used to be.

  3. Re:Great by laupsavid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With normal peoples' allergy to thinking about anything, it doesn't matter much how much effort is put into trying to educate them.

    They still will not think critically enough to protect themselves from being fooled, on top of which they'll continue to believe whatever makes them comfortable at the moment.

    So it'll continue to be more effective for people with an agenda to distort facts and figures, or even simply lie.

  4. Re:The Media by Infamous+Tim · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's the byproduct of news media for monetary gain, which is itself a product of capitalistic societies. The outlets want things that bring in views/readers/listeners, and inflammatory or sensational stories do it every time. Or, said another way, "if it bleeds, it leads." How unfortunate for the readers that we don't get the whole story.
    The funny thing is how much more reliable profit-seeking news outlets are than say state-run news outlets. Who here doesn't remember the side-by-side videos of the Iraqi minister claiming that there were no Americans in Iraq and US Marines toppling a statue of Sadaam at his own castle in Baghdad. Classic!

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  5. Re:Statistical Lies... by hackstraw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've heard of the book, but have not actually read it personally. I remember reading something in 4th grade or thereabouts that talked about how advertisers used numbers to make their product seem better with things like 3 out of 4 doctors surveyed, etc.

    Also, there is a popular quote that goes "Lies, damn lies, and statistics".

    Similar to the article, there is a strange number game that was done a while back when the SARS "epidemic" hit the world. A total of about 850 people died from the thing, yet annually 10,000 or so people die from influenza. SARS is an epidemic, influenza not.

    However, people have heard of influenza and not SARS, so I guess it makes for better headlines.

  6. Re:Funny Statistic by i41Overlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I do hope that less than 1/3 of the population uses marijuana, as it's illegal.

    Legality is not morality.

    People used to drink also. They drank before prohibition, they drank during prohibition, and they drank after prohibition. The law didn't really change much, other than the fact that the same people went from being law abiding citizens, to criminals who supported the Kaiser (the same old Communist/Terrorist enemy tactic used forever) back to law abiding citizens.

    Laws such as this are mainly academic in my opinion.

  7. Re:Alright! Another thread where we can bash Bush by gnuorder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bush, America, Corporations and Fox News leave themselves open to bashing when they say things that totally contradict math and science. They are not the first to do this and they are not the only ones to do this but they are able to take it to the farthest and get away with it. They don't even attempt to explain their fuzzy science. They just belittle critics of their policies like they did the "armchair general, liberal pundits and anti-american's" leading up to the war in Iraq. Many people forget to notice those people were right and the Bush administration has been wrong at every step. I think it's time we listen to the intellectual elite instead of the intellectually and morally bankrupt.

    http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,62339,00.ht ml

  8. Re:It happens every day by D.+Book · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have read (sorry, cannot cite source) that the claim that 100,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq is based on a statistical survey that says somewhere between 5,000 and 100,000 civilians had been killed.

    The reaction to the Lancet study was quite interesting; not the back and forth about the validity of the study, but how it changed the way the other major figure, the Iraq Body Count, was viewed. All of a sudden, those who were previously playing down any figures given for civilian deaths, from pundits to politicians, were countering the Lancet study by quoting figures based on the Iraq Body Count.

    My suspicion is that this was an aspect of psychology at work that one well-known social psychologist, Robert Cialdini, refers to as the "contrast principle". The 100,000 figure that was being reported suddenly made the Iraq Body Count's figure seem low. So for those who wished to play down the number of civilian deaths, a figure of 15,000 or so, which would have previously been rejected by such people, was now accepted. Yet nothing fundamental had changed about the IBC's figure--their methodology was the same. The only change was the way it was perceived when contrasted the 100,000 figure.

  9. Re:I hope by SharpFang · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But of course! Iraq owns the oil! US only rebuilds several $bln worth of destroyed country's infrastructure (which they have destroyed themselves), and they will have the operation of rebuilding the country paid in oil.
    A perfectly legal transaction. Like a doctor breaks your leg and then charges you for putting it back together...

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  10. Re:My personal favorite by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't know that statistic, but the number of abortions since GWB took office has doubled. It's basically an economic issue of how hard it is to raise a family for middle and lower income women. So my guess is that his figure was pulled out of his @ss like some much else from this administration. But he will never be called on it--that I can assure you.

    Now there is legislation in the works to make it a federal crime if a women does not report a pregnancy termination within 24 hours. Meaning, since my wife and I did not know until a week later that she had lost the 3 month fetus, she would instantly be a fugitive. Not only is such a law burdensome, intrusive and none of their damn bible-thumping business, but it also shows how ignorant the politicians can be.

    God forbid I forget my wallet and show up to a pollitical rally without a drivers license. This country is getting scary.

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  11. Re:Statistical Lies... by Rares+Marian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So you would rather contract SARS. We need more test subjects. Thank you.

    So you would rather take a bullet instead of smoking?
    Wow that is the first example of self-darwinating I've seen yet.

    Wait no see the 9/11 bit ruins the surprise.

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