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Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional
An anonymous reader writes "MSNBC reports that a judge in Atlanta, GA has ruled that a sticker placed on all textbooks in Cobb County stating that 'Evolution is a theory, not a fact,' is unconstitutional, and ordered that all stickers be removed."
I'm not defending either side here...but how exactly does one call this a "creationist textbook sticker?" I've heard many evolutionists declare evolution as only theory and not fact as well...
Since putting the sticker violated rules (2) and (3), it was deemed to be unconstitutional.
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
can be found here.
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
A quote I've seen attributed to Asimov:
'The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" but "That's funny..."'
Intelligent design/creationism are not falsifiable and do not belong in a science class. They belong in a class studying mythology and fairy tales.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
A minority of people in this country understand the Calculus. They should be the ones who decide what everyone's kids learn in school. So, yes, exactly: a minority should decide what the majority's kids learn in schools everyone's taxes fund. That's because the minority is often smarter.
All's true that is mistrusted
First, here and here is your information about macroevolution (a misnomer in itself).
Second, there's no such thing as being "between species". An organism is either in a given species or it isn't -- and the change of one species into another can happen instantly, or it can happen gradually. In any case, a change of species is so minor that it isn't easily observed in the fossil record.
You might want to look up "species". I think you have a misconception about what it means.
Actually, you're wrong. Atheism is not the lack of religion, it is the lack of belief in god(s). An atheist can still be religious (as in the case of some Buddhists). What atheism is, is a belief that one can have, whether you have religious beliefs or not.
Um, you may not know this, but stuff that's made by man, even if described in the bible doesn't have anywhere near the reliability of stuff made by god.
There's a reason why this passage describes who made this.
And BTW for the clueless, you do imagine that someone actually measured this pot right? And recorded what he measured - it's not prophecy after all. The reason these measurements are recorded is that the pot was very think. One measurement was an inner measurement, and the other was an outer measurement.
Do the math, go look up how much a hand breadth is, and figure the inner diameter was 10 cubits minus a hand breadth. Then see how 30 cubits compares with what you calculate for the inner circumference - you'll find it's quite accurate.
-Ariel
http://dict.die.net/fact/
Source: WordNet (r) 1.7
fact
n 1: a piece of information about circumstances that exist or
events that have occurred; "first you must collect all
the facts of the case"
2: a statement or assertion of verified information about
something that is the case or has happened; "he supported
his argument with an impressive array of facts"
3: an event known to have happened or something known to have
existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of
the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell"
4: a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses
are not facts"
I thought a definition would be useful here. The sticker is completely correct in stating that theory is not fact by all of the above definitions. I agree that the reason the sticker is on the books is definitely biased but the message itself is fairly neutral and fully accurate so far as I can tell. If they had stated that the theory of evolution was false or had been proven incorrect then they would be inaccurate and the sticker defintely should be removed. As it stands it is just a statement of common sense that should be practiced by any scientist.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
As a former Catholic, I feel compelled to point out (for clarification purposes only) that the Catholic Church is not opposed to the theory of Evolution. It does question some of the "ape-to-human" points in the theory, but, from what I have read, that appears more to be from a lack of evidence than from some overall dogmatic opposition to humans evolving from apes -- check these out link and link.
Both links are very long articles that go into significant detail, but from the summaries I read, I interpret them to mean the Catholic Church is concerned where the human "soul" came from. They are not caught up in a creationistic point of view and they appear to be quite accepting in many of the finer points in evolution.
And, to go a step further, the Catholic Church, unlike some of the Evangalicals, does NOT believe in a literal interpretation of the bible.
Do a web search on irreducible complexity.
The idea of irreducible complexity is scientifically valid: if you could find a structure which could not have evolved, that's proof that evolution is wrong. That's why evolution is a scientific theory: it proposes tests which it could fail.
Creationists (like the grandparent post) cite certain examples: the eye (there are an awful lot of pieces, and it's hard to see how a less-complex eye could exist to evolve into an eye without first being selected against); the bacterial flagellum (another rather complex piece from which it's hard to imagine the immediate evolutionary precursor).
The examples strike me as extremely strained. There are very few of them repeated over and over. They always apply to soft tissues, so the fossil record is poor. Every time we look at hard tissues, the evolutionary trace is clear.
Despite the complexity of these systems, it still seems that with enough effort we will eventually uncover how they did evolve, perhaps once we have sequenced the genomes of creatures along the evolutionary path. It certainly seems premature to throw out a very successful theory on the basis of this evidence.
But the evidence is there, waiting for you to explain it. Don't dismiss the challenger; know his argument and refute it.
The idea that the Earth travels around the Sun is just part of the theory of Planetary Motion. Electrons are just part of Atomic Theory. If they don't exist, your computer doesn't work. Gravity is just a theory.
American Heritage Dictionary
theory n.
1. A set of statements or principals devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
This is what scientists mean by a theory. Nothing in science is a fact. As more observations are made, theories can change, or new ones are developed.
Evolution Theory is accepted as the best explaination of what has been observed from any number of discipines. The sticker is incorrect in the usage of the word theory and should not be placed in the textbooks.
Should physics textbooks carry a sticker that gravity is just a theory also?
You're obviously not clear on ANY of the definitions, so I will be helpful and provide some, with examples.
Fact: Something that you observe to be true.
fact #1: when you drop a hammer, it falls to the ground
fact #2: a genetic sequence can change sufficiently to form a new species. Speciation has been observed more than once in the laboratory and in the wild, so this is a fact. Since we call this process 'evolution', that means evolution is a fact. Keep reading for more explanation of this.
Theory: An explanation of an observation
Theory #1: The theory of gravity is understood as a curvature in space, which explains why the hammer falls.
Theory #2: The Theory of Evolution through Natural Selection explains how a population's genome can change over time.
Law: Not really related to any of the other definitions. It's just a mathematical relationship between two values.
Law #1: If you double the distance from a source of light, the brightness falls off proportionally to the square of the distance.
Law #2: (expressed as a formula) F=ma. Force equals mass times acceleration.
Please note that Evolution is a fact, and the theory is called the Theory of Evolution through Natural Selection. There are other theories of evolution, which have been disproved. A famous one is the theory of evolution through acquired characteristics, also known as Lamarkian evolution. It posited that species evolve by acquiring and retaining useful characteristics through use. Therefore, a giraffe would have longer necks if the previous generations stretched their necks to reach high leaves. This was the main theory that Darwin and others showed to be false.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
> As far as I know, no one has actually observed macroevolution.
Then I'm afraid, to be blunt, that you are essentially ignorant of a vast area of research.
Check out http://talkorigins.org. Let's see how open your mind truly is.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Continue this by realizing that copying processes are not perfect, mistakes are made, and sometimes those mistakes can make a chemical structure that replicates itself in a different way with different chemicals that can still self-replicate the structure and you end up with different varieties of replicating structures competing for the same chemical resources.
Continue this by seeing that some of these self-replicating structures were able to combine with other chemicals for use as an "outer layer" that happened to protect the replication structure from damage by UV rays or other chemicals that would cause its deterioration. You begin to see the prototypes of what we call "cells".
Continue this all over the planet an inconceivable number of times for an inconceivable length of time and plausibility is certainly within grasp.
kurzweil_freak
5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student
Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.
Not universally. Western religions tend to demand adherence without proof (leaps of faith and such), but Eastern religions (and some Jewish mysticism) tend to be more philosophical and introspective. For example, in Zen Buddhism blindly adhering to written or taught dogma is typically shunned. Instead, the wealth of religious texts in these zen sects are to be taken merely as a "finger pointing to the moon". If you spend too much time looking at the finger, you'll lose sight of the moon.
make world, not war
The judge in this case ruled the stickers unconstitutional because of the religion of the people who supported it.
No, the judge in this case ruled the stickers unconstitutional because an attack directed at evolution in this manner, to any reasonably intelligent person, is an endorsement of religion. This was simply christian fundamentalists trying to play fast and loose with the rules.
They neither promoted nor condemned any religion--or lack thereof.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion, but it is not the conclusion the judge said he came to: "By denigrating evolution, the school board appears to be endorsing the well-known prevailing alternative theory, creationism or variations thereof"
If this were allowed to stand, we'd see them attacking all sorts of things that conflict with their interpretation of the bible:
Geology text: "This text book suggests that the rocky material of the mountains between arizona and utah are too hard to have had the Grand Canyon formed by all the floods of the last 10,000 years, which is a theory not a fact. Readers are asked to keep an open mind..."
Physics text: "This text book suggests that the half life of some radioactive materials found on earth, and the relative amounts of decay products found with them, indicate that they have been around for billions of years, which is a theory not a fact. Readers are asked to keep an open mind..."
Sometimes an attack on science that is popularly at odds with religion is an endorsement of religion. No matter how well you dress it up.
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Please don't ever link to talkorigins.org when discussing open minds again.
Is is a site notorious for exaggeration and plain misinformation about such topics.
You might as well link to Microsoft's "Get the facts" campaign page to encourage open minded discussion about Linux.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
That site is CLEARLY satire....navigate your way to the jesus anti-fornication thong" to convince yourself.
I'd bet money it's the same people who do landover baptist church which, btw, is ALSO funny as hell.
never been found
You have been missinformed. Many example of speciation have been observed.
But even better than mere speciation is the absolutely facinating sub-catagory of ring species which have been found. Not merely a case of a single species diverging into two incompatible species over short timescales, but having the FULL range of intermediate forms available to study!
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.