Slashdot Mirror
An Interview with Ben Edelman
Chuck Talk writes "Orange Crate has an interview with Ben Edelman, a Harvard Law student and PhD candidate in Economics. Ben is noted for his work in studying issues of privacy, spyware, internet content filtering and the global supporters of those actions."
Some guy is a student with opinions about spyware.
He gets interviewed.
Article is a bit wordy.
Not worth reading.
Sorry.
This has to be one of the best interviews I've read in quite a while. Chuck has certainly done his work and it is easy to see. The best Q/A I've read in it has to be this: Chuck Talk: What types of legal and economic reforms do you think can save this nation from bankrupting itself through massive borrowing and continued massive spending? Do you think we have learned any lessons from the Internet bubble, or have investors simply kept throwing cash at their problems? How can we reverse the destructive trends of the current economy toward a building trend that signals a truly healthy economy for all? What does a PhD candidate for economics mind foresee as the changes need to right our ship of state? Ben Edelman: I'm not a fan of current US fiscal policy. I think I'll leave it at that. I guess we know where Ben stands!
Slashdotted!2 b164552f372cbbc/index.html Mirrordot!
Time to use http://www.mirrordot.org/stories/b8b92fde34d0211e
Pseudo 'blog' article which offers little other than reshashing old ground.
1. 'Orange Crate': Another site run on Slashcode/Scoop/Whatever. Look at all the article comments it attracts and groundbreaking insight on its pages.
2. 'An Interview with Ben Edelman': So I post something in a blog/personal website, post it to a 2-bit unread news site desperate for anything original it can get, with the entire aim of reposting that on a widely read site merely to generate traffic, not for the quality of the article.
3. 'Ben Edelman': So he's a law student, fine, but you're pushing it with 'PhD Candidate' - remember this means someone who has applied and been accepted to a PhD course, but that's it - so be means of credibility this scores 0.
And I did RTFA, and while not bad, I fail to see what it added other than another person beating their chest under the supposition they have unique invaluable insight when the items discussed have been mentioned 100s of times in Slashdotters comments before. "Ben is noted for his work in studying issues of privacy, spyware, internet content filtering and the global supporters of those actions...", no, Ben is noted for his self delusion.
Thanks Ben.
The site has a point: spyware software writers are evil and make spyware hard to uninstall, and the legal claims by spyware companies are different than his findings.
I believe this conclusion was commonly held on Slashdot as far back as 2001, and probably before that.
In other news, US oil companies (legally) claim global warming is overstated, Japanese fishermen (legally) claim catching whales is OK and McDonalds (legally) claim Latin American cattle rearing doesn't damage the rainforests.
If you wade around the site, it has the odd interesting point r.e. legal agreements in spyware EULAs and who invests in spyware companies (clickable link), topics recently posted to slashdot. The content on the site is hardly partisan, while this fits in with the mindset of the lawyer, I'm curious how it aligns itself with a PhD student (given research should be as unbiased as possible).
In all fairness, this is not such a bad article. Just because everyone that reads Slashdot has the oppurtunity to be well informed about these issues, doesn't make his interview any less valid for the millions of non-slashdot readers that are not so well informed. Slashdot readers just assume that when they open up a new story, they're going to read something groundbreaking, and that just wasn't the case this time.
Sure he's just a student. But he's a phD student, which means he's been accepted into a program where his life will consist of academically monitored research in this ares.
Cut the kid some slack; he's the closest thing there is to an expert in his field.
n/t
Tell me again how a half completed law degree from Harvard translates to "intelligent" commentary on privacy . One of the first things they teach you in any freshman college writing class is to use *credible* sources in your writing... this guy has part of a degree. And all of a sudden he's a usable source? Amazing. My first post on /.!!! (i've been reading for a long time... figured it would be good to get involved).
"Why is some malicious software called a virus and removed by my anti-virus software and other malware called "spyware" and left there. The answer suggested here is that the difference is that the virus didn't trick you into clicking a User agreement. (not that all spyware does) But in fact I still don't see a lot of difference between what is classed spyware and what is classed virus. Is this a case of my being on the wrong side of that "fine line between clever and stupid".
Zee orange... it burns zee eyes!!!!
http://www.sandstorming.com
There are a handful of other people I can think of who've done a similar amount of work. Merijin Bellekom, Patrick Kolla and Andrew Clover spring to mind, although there are others.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
Nothing there... just like the body of your message. Except maybe the hope of being modded funny for your last comment. But oh wait, nobody will read it anyways since you've proven yourself a moron with your negative karma.
Eat a dick.
Sure people can have many backgrounds, and a fresh-faced enthuastic, perhaps naive one approach is fantastic. It would be a disaster if everyone had this approach, but here we have someone clearly enthusiastic (check out his site), clearly intersted, and very establishment ('Harvard Expert' gets a lot of cred r.e. 'professional journalism'). So what if he's just starting out (cut your teeth somewhere, would you prefer it if he kept his mouth shut and had no feedback about his approach until graduation?!).
31337 h4x0r5 may write anti-spyware programs, reverse engineer viruses and edit the Windows Registry (!) - something extremely valuable in treating the symptom, but that's always reactionary to something that's happened. This guy is going after the cause - he had a story posted a couple of days ago about who invests in Spyware companies (valuable in 'outing' the 'villans'), he is looking at the legal agreements and increasing awareness to how they subtly change (for example, he browses through and highlights points from Gator/Whatever its called now, in their 63 page EULA (who removed a print option), he is beginning to look at the incentives these companies are subject to.
So thanks for your first ever post, but how about getting off your self appointed high horse and realising that to tackle a problem it takes all sorts, and Ben is spearheading the legal and academic approach to the Spyware problem, a problem which 31337 h4x0r5 writing anti-spyware tools or even Microsoft cannot solve alone (given ilknowledgable users, etc).
Ben Edelman says: I think that's crazy -- no one reads the EULAs, and no one would agree to their terms even if they did read them. But courts and lawyers take these things very seriously -- tending to defer to the fiction that users really did agree to the software, and to all its terms and requirements, when users pressed "accept."
He's talking about spyware here, but by his logic all EULAs in software and on the web are BS because the user didn't "really" agree to them. (How many times have you actually read the full EULA?) Then what legal protection can legitimate software makers have, under this standard?
PimpMyMazda.com - Crazy mods to a 2002 Mazda Protege DX.
This guy obviously has some brains. Read just part of that, and you realize that.
IMHO here's what he should be researching and perfecting:
Visual EULA's
Just like creative commons has iconic easy to read licenses (link goes to LGPL sample).
Why? Because they are easy to read, use, analyze.
The US would benefit so much if we required electronic licenses to follow such a format. EULA's, TOS, AUP's, SA's, etc.
A standard of icons, and formatting.
So anyone, can have the option of viewing in that format, or the legal jargon.
Some more useful additions to the Creative Commons icons:
- Monitors Traffic or Usage
- Commercial Mailing
- Advertising Included
You get the idea.
Every program, with the option to view the license in an easy to read visual format.
Then everyone knew what they were installing or signing up for.
Would be much better than the "canned spam act", or "anti-spyware" bills in progress.
Go home Jew. We don't need you. You have your own country. Go there and fix their problems.
It is the Jews who created this wicked mess of our legal system. A casual read through any product of American jurisprudence shows it to be much more similar to the Talmud than any historical product of Western Civilization.
Just as Judaism is founded upon endless arguing and pointless conflict, so to has our legal system become completely separate from reality.
My fellow gentiles, RESIST WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH AND COURAGE THE EVIL THAT IS THE INTERNATIONAL JEW.
Just noticed this thread -- was offline most of the day.
The interview was a nice little piece -- but as several comments above mentioned, it really was just a little email discussion I had with the Orange Crate admins. Personally, I wouldn't have thought it worthy of the honor of a Slashdot thread all its own... But then again sometimes the things I think are important still don't get Slashdot threads...
Meanwhile, here's something that almost everyone will agree is important: Spyware companies getting endorsed by supposedly-impartial associations of anti-spyware vendors. Such endorsements are particularly problematic when based on spyware companies' claims of improved practices, but where such practices have yet to be observed in the real world. (Companies' true practices remain outrageous -- installation via security holes, no notice and consent, etc.) I have a very specific example in mind: 180solutions' endorsement by COAST just yesterday. See coverage at Spyware Warrior.
Earlier today I observed 180 installed through a security hole, where the page invoking the security hole was a privacy policy at a web site. Read the privacy policy, get spyware. What a world! I expect to add the video and write-up to my site shortly.
Ben
The spyware guys are like cockroaches - they scurry into corners when lights are shined on 'em, and Ben is doing a darn fine job of that - ummmmm ... I may have insulted cockroaches with that last sentance! ;-)
Ben's analysis/comments on 180solutions is now posted - good reading!
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