Death to the Fanboy Press

Kotaku has yet more commentary on the gaming press, where Brian Crecente complains about the childish nature of gaming magazine coverage. This commentary is based on an IGDA commentary piece by Matthew Sakey about the sad state of adult-oriented gaming press. From the article: "What about the magazine did I like the least? Maybe it was the jet lag, but I answered truthfully: 'Sometimes I think your magazine acts too childish. I could do without the stuffed animals and Godzilla jokes and Nerf gun battle pictorials. I'd rather see more in-depth coverage of gaming trends and the ideas that games produce, and less obsession with technology. If we want games treated as a hobby that's as much for adults as children, then we should act more adult. Fun, but grown-up.' This answer pleased them not, and in retrospect it occurs to me that had I shown a bit more tact - for which I am admittedly not famous - I might have gotten the job."

Comments

Too unreadable

[AtariAmarok]

The magazines are too unreadable due to very poor graphic design. They are overwrought to the point where they make "Wired" look like "The New York Times" [registration required]. Too much white/orange/dark-green/etc on black ink.

Edge Magazine

[david.given]

Edge Magazine is a fun but serious gaming magazine for, like, actual adults. Reading it is a rather odd experience. It has articles that are interesting and which you find yourself thinking about.

It's a bit sad that this comes across as being unusual these days.

Bring Back Next Generation

[blueZhift]

I tend to agree that most of the game magazines are more interested in hype and cheat codes than in the inner working of the games business. Right now, I think EGM is the best in terms of writing and industry coverage, but I really miss Next Generation magazine which was the first games related magazine I ever read regularly. It was a high quality publication that told the inner story of the games industry in addition to coverage of the latest games and hardware. It felt like it was written by adults for adults. Does anyone know if the Japanese games magazines do any better? I think gaming is a bit more respected there as an activity that is okay for adults to engage in. I wonder if the magazines reflect this.

Games are games...

[tod_miller]

I am all for frontier like 9 page reviews for wetting your knickers but:

All the reviews of Half-Life 2 that I've read go on and on about the gravity gun, the cool physics, the amazing water effects produced by the Source engine, and how good the level design is. Scarcely a word is mentioned about the potency of the urban dystopia so elegantly realized with City-17; about the brooding, ubiquitous Overwatch and the paranoia it foments; about humanity's growing despondency in the face of the Combine's relentless oppression

Give my jokes about godzilla and nerf gun pictorials over this! :-)

No, I agree that some games you just wanna take to bed and read with you, like GTA:SA, I woudl like to read a lot about that game, the technology, from a developer point of view.

So I would read gamasutra. If I ama game head, which i am not, I would read the tripe magazines, like the one your were interviewed for.

I can't believe you lost the chance to work somewhere with nerf gun fights. Now google is your only chance (until the adsense fraud gets them all hungry again!! :-(

Re:Games are games...

[ivan256]

I can't believe you lost the chance to work somewhere with nerf gun fights.

I have yet to work somewhere where there weren't nerf gun fights. Hell, even at IBM we had nerf gun fights. They get old. If you don't love what you're doing for a living, shooting people with foam rubber isn't going to make your job not suck.

Re:Games are games...

[CoffeeJedi]

but there IS something to be said here, ok, it seems like you enjoy the technical aspects of gaming, and that's fine for you and alot of other people

but people like the author, and myself even, want to know about the story and characters of a game. Gaming has matured to the point where story matters over flashy graphics. Half life 2 created a very distinct mood and feel, the writers were trying to SAY something with that setting. Granted, they weren't saying anything that countless other dystopian authors already had, but the point is, if we mature gamers take more interest in intelligent themes, stories, and characters, maybe the writing and plot of games will get BETTER. I would like to finally play some 'mature' games, and i don't mean mature as in GTA, (digital blood and boobs are interesting to 14 year olds, but not me). Mature as in intelligent, intellectual story elements that you need half a brain to understand. Halo and Halo 2 have come close, packed in the explosions and weaponry and multiplayer carnage, there's actually some pretty compelling sci-fi concerning the nature of faith and religion.

Re:Games are games...

[tod_miller]

I agree with you because of one thing: story lines and characters are a part of the technical elements of a game!

I personally like games which give you a highly controllable environment, I think this defines a game.

Even manic miner, walking a dude around the place, the controll of the guy, that is what made me play that game.

So agree except for: ...boobs are interesting to 14 year olds, but not me

Heck, I liked boobs at 14, and over a decade later, I like them even more!! I wouldn't say they are an aquired taste, but the more you auire, the more you taste!

Alas, as you get older, they do grow on you (*man boobs*, lol, how much fun can I have on /. in one day?)

If movie reviews were written like game reviews

[atomic noodle]

Imagine if movie reviews were written like the average game review...

Ninety percent of the review would be a discussion of the special effects and technical details, with ten percent left for things like plot and characterisation.

Perhaps when every game has photo-realistic graphics and perfect 3D sound then reviewers will finally have to start looking at the things that actually make the game fun...

Re:If movie reviews were written like game reviews

[UWC]

Or maybe when more games have actually well-realized plot and characterization that serve as more than just a framework around which to wrap the gameplay or, in some cases, the tech demo. This isn't meant as a troll, as I don't mind a crappy story if the game itself is fun. Similarly, I'll sometimes endure repetitive or flawed gameplay if the story or characters are compelling. Some reviewers tailor their reviews to the game being reviewed. If story and characterization play a big part in the game, they are given a decent amount of discussion in a good review. The fact remains that it's still a video game, which implies gameplay is involved somewhere, and the fun derived from the gameplay is often the primary aspect of the game. As for tech, it can play a very important role in establishing an atmosphere, context, or environment to fit the gameplay and story. There are some games that simply don't work as well without impressive technology. The Splinter Cell games come to mind. Without the complex and impressive lighting used in the games, the gameplay does suffer.

And all of this is not to defend all reviewers. I'm sure there are many that focus excessively or primarily on the technological feats achieved in the games. Impressive, and often necessary, as they may be, you're right that there are other aspects of the games that help determine whether it's actually worth playing.

Re:If movie reviews were written like game reviews

[johannesg]

If movie reviews were written like game reviews, they would discuss the interaction you have with the movie at great length ("I sat in the comfortable chair, but the leg space was just a little too short"), have notes on the difficulty level ("the subtitling used too small letters, and there were too many words with more than four syllables"), possibly notes on weapon selection ("the hero uses a single gun throughout the movie"), and something about the online experience ("I couldn't get a connection with other movie-goers, and any attempts at doing so were shushed up").

But why do people compare movies and games in the first place? They are vastly different experiences that are attempting to do different things. Games should not be like movies and movies should not be like games; a point which is handily proven by the abysmal quality of most attempts at crossing over...

Give it a break, guys.

[DingerX]

I got some bad news:
Print magazines are a business. They try to make money. How do they do it?
Well, one way is to sell to people who actually buy magazines. Who buys these things? Come on, when was the last time anybody actually bought a video game mag? Okay, here's a theory for you: video game press is like porn. Most people, given a choice, would rather participate in the acts depicted than read about them. So what are the barriers to playing video games and what demographics do they entail?
A) Arbitrary limits on time. This affects kids above all. Parents limit video game exposure. Sure, some of you will say, so do spouses/significant others/jealous dogs, but reading about video games pisses them off just as much.
B) Situations where playing video games is not appropriate. Teenagers have school, where the magazine format excels, discretely lining the inside of that boring-ass history book. Adults have workplaces; in the working class case, the magazine might still make sense -- though then one would be better served by bringing something everyone can enjoy, such as pornography. For many office types, vid web sites are not yet off limits.
C) Where cash is short, web access controlled, and the magazine can be a handy guide to what to expect -- again, the younger crowd excels here.

The other revenue source is of course advertising. Remember, automotive magazines don't shy away from tarnishing their journalistic integrity; many music mags don't either. So why should it surprise anyone that the bulk of video game magazines are basically shills for big companies? That's their business model! So it ain't called EA Weekly; that doesn't mean they don't make a living by pandering to Electronic Arts.

Now, on to the rest of it. I don't care about anybody else's "experience" with the game; give me your evaluation. I don't want some masturbatory prose and long narrative about how the dystopic vision of GTA:SA validated a life spent in the parents' basement, cold, with the body never feeling the heat of a woman. I'd like to hear the "Take" on the game; that can include commentary on the structure, the vision, or whatever. But I don't wanna see an egotistic ass hijack the prose.
Sure, there's a lot to talk about with video games, from the market, to how ideas are realized, to loading them full of Frankfurt School Marxism and making the players fritter away their only real chance to overthrow the oppressive system exposed by the game. So why beat up on perfectly legitimate bits of drivel?


By the way, the word "impactor" offends me on so many levels, it's making me question my sexual orientation.

Immature magazines for immature adults.

[EnronHaliburton2004]

If we want games treated as a hobby that's as much for adults as children, then we should act more adult. Fun, but grown-up.

Well, that is largely because the majority of the male gaming population acts like 13-year-old boys--

You've know who they are: lusting after Lara Croft's boobs, gawking at the booth-babes, treating women like shit, spending most of their time inside playing video games munching on chips instead of getting exercise and meeting people. Look back at any ./ conversation where we talk about women and video games, and you'll see plenty of immature posts talking about how the women should shut up, there really isn't a problem, and the incorrect assumption that the big buff, musclebound male-stereotype superhero appeals to the fantasy of the women gamers (wrong!). I keep talking about treatment of women, because that is one of my main measuresments for male maturity.

And these people probably spend the most money on video games.

But there is a substantial mature, adult gaming population out there. But chances are they are pretty busy with their lives, careers, kids, and don't spend nearly as much money on games, and don't always have time to read gaming magazines.

Re:Immature magazines for immature adults.

[leland242]

Meh.

Male maturity can be measured in many different ways. Off color humor and/or fantasy thoughts about women is probably not the best place to start. All men make comments and all men fantasize. Period. Maturity (and this can be applied to most everything else) is the ability to differentiate between the fantastic and reality.

That said, I would agree that the guys who rushed out to buy "The Guy Game" or "Panty Raiders" are probably not the most mature guys in the world - but I bet there are a few gems in that rough.

I suscribe to PC Gamer. Each month I get a shiny new copy of thier fine publication, sit down in my living room, and read it. It's a nice alternative to the computer and I'm not confined to my desk.

The real bonus is that in about 2 years time the bindings will spell out P C G A M E R on a shelf in my basement. Now that's something an on-line review simply can't do.

Re:Immature magazines for immature adults.

[javaxman]

But there is a substantial mature, adult gaming population out there. But chances are they are pretty busy with their lives, careers, kids, and don't spend nearly as much money on games, and don't always have time to read gaming magazines.

You're right, I am pretty busy with my life, and my game collection isn't all that large ( I buy or am given maybe 5 PS2 games a year, I'm up to maybe 20 titles total now ). But I did have a subscription to a gaming magazine, mainly to keep up on new releases and get ratings and reviews.

Did. I didn't renew... and why? Because I couldn't handle the marketed-to-a-thirteen-year-old slant any more. I think the anime 'girls of gaming swimsuit issue' was what finally pushed me over the edge.

When I find a magazine which gives lots of info on games, and stays focused on games, I'll consider buying it.

It seems to me that there's plenty to cover in the industry, what people's favorite games are, game genre suggestsions ( if you like x you might like y ), reviews of games, and how to beat them ( i.e. I don't mind tips/cheat/walkthrough sections, even for older games )... well, given the number of titles out for the PS2 console alone, you could fill endless monthlies without resorting to anime babe art, goofy future predictions, and supposedly funny 'entertainment piece' columns by made-up personalities.

But you're right, guys like me, who spend some of their time playing SpongeBob SquarePants video games with our kids, we aren't the big spenders in the video game market. We aren't the big spenders in the magazine market, either... these magazines sell mostly at stores, not through subscriptions, which means they're being bought by kids. Adults get subscriptions, or would, if we could find a decent magazine to buy.

OXM

[jasko]

I now officially duck to avoid the hurled flames.

However, since we're talking about readability - try Official Xbox Magazine - just pick one up and look at it. It's my only subcription mag since Next Generation went away. I believe at least one OXM editor was from NG (Francesca?). And the quality of the writing is way above average in the gaming press. Almost all of the content is in grammatical English and they're not afraid to say a game is awful in no uncertain terms.

It probably has to do with the fact that Xboxen are marketed at a higher aged demographic (I'm 34 today, f'rinstance).

Maybe I'm weird...

[Gothic_Walrus]

...but I tend not to trust reviews very often.

I use websites to check for the big points, sure. IGN can tell me if a game will make my computer crash or if it's got so much slowdown that it's going to make my GBA burst into flames.

The major websites tend to reflect this occasionally childish view, though, and the print magazines can't help me to find a game that I'm interested in if it's a new release or if it's months old and I don't have that issue anymore.

Talking to my friends does work. I know what their tastes are and whether or not I'll like the game if they do. Hell, I don't even need to talk to my real life friends. Asking people that I've met through message boards can work wonders too. I'd trust the userbase of Cheap Ass Gamer more often than I would XPlay or GamePro.

I wonder why more people don't think of doing it my way instead? Reviews aren't everything, despite what fanboys say. :)

Insert Credit

[Wandering Idiot]

I can't believe no one's mentioned Insert Credit's lengthy series of articles on the state of game journalism yet. Pretty much any point being made in the parent story or the comments here were already made by it. Like the site itself, it may overreach at times, but it's certainly refreshing compared to the norm...

A games journo speaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me posting anonymously but I'm sure you'll understand why. Working on a multi-format mag is an eye-opening experience. I too wanted to raise the tone of journalism but have faced an unexpected obstacle: the game publishers themselves.

Lots of publishers have told me how dissatisfied they are with the current state of game journalism. I've had senior PR people tell me they can usually influence journos if they need to. And I know other journos who have been offered inducements (read: cash) to give games good scores.

They like it this way. I've seen major publishers pull ads because we've written negative reviews of their games. They have control - as a number of people have said, magazine publishing is a business and when your publisher sees ads being pulled and phone calls not returned you can bet your bottom dollar that the panic button gets hit. The game publishers know this and use it to their advantage.

I absolutely agree that there are some terrible, juvenile mags out there. But let's not forget that at least some of these are perfectly targeted at a juvenile audience. It's much tougher to produce an adult mag that takes games seriously. The only two that do are Edge and gamesTM, both from the UK. And neither of them has ever sold many copies, which raises questions about the adult audience who are, I suspect, enjoying some of the excellent, no-holds-barred writing to be found on the web, where writers are not professionals and so aren't worried about ads being pulled or code withheld.

Any other journos out there want to comment?

Thanks for the sexism. Let's debunk that.

[cgenman]

For a counter perspective, check out 1UP's look at the issue.

Long story short, the lead designer for The Playboy Mansion and the lead product developer for Bloodrayne are female, and the lead designer for Beyond Good and Evil is male. Many of the people listed in the article cross the line between the traditionally expected viewpoints. Many female designers and artists are comfortable with a larger degree of sexuality in their characters, and many male designers take a more respectful "kid's gloves" approach to the issue. The designer most directly responsible for the look of Laura Croft left the company after the first game because they wanted to sex her up too much (Legend has it she is based upon his niece).

This is not as black-and-white an issue as "men are sex-starved, women are victims." Quite frankly I find that reductionism insulting. The majority of the male gaming population does not act like 13 year old boys. Have you been around 13 year old boys recently? If the current statistics are correct, the percentage of 6 - 17 year old boys playing videogames is holding at about 20%. Which means 1 in 5. Which means that the obnoxious kid that you bump into on the Halo 2 server is probably in reality an obnoxious kid. And if he understands that the behavior is unacceptable, he will change. But if you shrug and make gross generalizations based on sex, that makes it OK for him to continue and insults the rest of us unproductively.

And please lose the stereotype of the lifeless piply male gamer. It's been debunked. Multiple times. over and over again.

A radical suggestion

[SteeldrivingJon]

If people want a grownup gaming magazine, then perhaps a magazine is needed which is characterized by what has long been considered to identify a book as being "for grownups".

No pictures.

Then it'd have to survive on the quality of the writing, and the thoughts expressed. The lack of screenshots would encourage a focus on deeper issues than graphics of scary monsters and explosions.

The lack of pictures would let it function on a lower budget, removing the need to whore for the vendors and the kiddies looking for pictures of CGI chicks who make them feel kinda funny down there.

Start it out as a low-budget zine, and build credibility. If interest rises high enough, move to a more traditional printed journal format with higher production values. Maybe even allow line drawing diagrams, when necessary.

(Note: I am not a person who thinks a book with pictures is automatically a kids' book. Graphic Novel readers need not respond with examples of Maus or Persepolis, etc)