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EU Software Patents Delayed Again

Lord An writes "It seems the decision about software patents in Europe has been delayed again for at least a week (link in German). Once again we have to thank Poland that the corresponding item was removed from the A-list of the Council of Agriculture and Fisheries. Hopefully this delay will be enough that the opposition vs. the patents will finally get the upper hand." Non-German speakers might find it useful to plug that URL into the Fish.

13 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. What is wrong with software patents by Sanity · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Here is an article I wrote a few days ago which is intended to introduce the issue of software patents, and why they are a bad thing:

    The European Union is attempting to pass a Directive that will force many European governments to permit patents on software despite growing protests from software engineers and small European software companies. Opponents fear that software patents will stifle innovation and competition in their industry, increasing their legal costs, while leaving them at the mercy of large companies who have the resources to acquire large numbers of patents. The Directive is supported by trade groups dominated by large multinational software companies, along with national patent offices who generate revenue from patent applications. A patent is a fearsome weapon, not only does it prevent someone from copying an invention, it also prevents them from independently inventing the same thing. This means that you could spend your entire life sitting in a cave, with no contact with the outside world, and anything you invent could still infringe other people's patents. In contrast, a copyright only prevents other people from copying your work. If you copyright a poem and someone else, by chance, happens to write the same poem without copying yours, then they are not infringing your copyright.

    The purpose of patents, indeed all forms of intellectual property, is to promote the arts and sciences. Patents achieve this by granting an inventor exclusive control over their invention for a limited time. In return, the inventor is required to disclose their invention so that after the limited time expires, it is freely available to the rest of society. Society benefits when this provides an incentive for inventors to invent, where otherwise they might not have bothered.

    A patent isn't just granted on an idea for an invention, it can only be granted once you have a prototype, or at least the ability to teach someone how to build a prototype, this is known as a "teachable invention". Patents therefore motivate an inventor to take their idea and invest the time and money to develop it into a teachable invention. In return for this, and a small fee, inventors are granted a 20 year monopoly over their invention.

    This monopoly is not granted without a price. Every invention builds on those that came before, yet for the duration of a patent nobody else can build on a patented invention without the permission of the inventor. This creates a cost for society, and other inventors. Patents work when the benefit to society of having the invention outweighs the cost of the inventor's monopoly over it.

    In a field such as pharmaceuticals, a vast investment may be required to get from an idea for a new drug, to the drug itself. In this case, it is easy to see how a patent on this drug will benefit society if it provides sufficient motivation to the drug's inventor to make the investment required to invent it. Software, however, is very different. Getting from an idea to a prototype in software requires very little investment and risk. This is the great strength of software. Its why Bill Gates, a college drop-out, could build a multi-billion dollar company out of nothing but the ideas in his head. Its why Linus Torvalds could later sow the seeds of an operating system built by volunteers that would challenge that multi-billion dollar company.

    Patents should not apply to software for the simple reason that they would do far more harm than good, harming creativity rather than promoting it. Software doesn't need patents, copyright is more than adequate to provide the incentive software engineers need to turn their ideas into software. The cost to society of a 20 year monopoly over a software invention will never be justified, because it is inconceivable that any software invention could require such a powerful incentive. The price for this monopoly is paid by other inventors, and so the effect is to stifle innovation, not to promote it.

    Unfortunately software is not the only fie

    1. Re:What is wrong with software patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There was a time that it wouldn't be necessary - but given some comments I have seen here in recent months about software patents, I think a refresher course is in order.

    2. Re:What is wrong with software patents by SnowZero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Linus only coded a kernel

      Which is incidentally something RMS has so far been unable to do. Linus plugged the gaping hole in GNU that was/is the quagmire of Hurd.

      While I respect the GNU people for GCC and the GPL, I don't consider the rest of the necessary stuff as all that difficult to write: libc and the unix utilities. I call my systems GNU/Linux mainly because of GCC (and in spite of things like "info"). Calling Linux "only" a kernel is a joke; you can't do anything without kernel (or the compiler). So maybe Linus could give more credit to GNU, but then again maybe he would if RMS didn't try to aggrandize himself at every opportunity...

    3. Re:What is wrong with software patents by Sanity · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Mr. Gates has had superb business sense and has had tremendous success with his leadership of Microsoft, but I'm not sure how much of his success can be attributed to 'nothing but ideas in his head'.
      The point I was making is that Bill Gates, who wasn't particularly wealthy, was able to succeed in software because of its low barriers to entry. I wasn't endorsing everything he has ever done.
      With the state of patenting as it currently is I agree, but if changes were made so that patents are 'properly' rewarded - ie restricted to true innovations that require a reasonable amount of risk and investment, then I would disagree.
      Never happen. I can't think of a single software invention that was so difficult to take from idea to implementation that only a 20 year patent could provide sufficient motivation.
      Some software ideas are difficult to create - ie the SHA encryption algorithm, but can readily implemented by a competent programmer. I don't see how copyright would be adequate incentive to create such notrivial ideas.
      Great example, because even a non-trivial software invention such as SHA didn't require the motivation of a software patent.
      The real problem is that patents should only be awarded in any field based on innovativeness - the likelyhood that it could or would have been invented without a substantial investment of sweat equity. There also needs to be a method where if an idea is broadly useful, that even if it is highly innovative and patentable, the rights can be purchased to it to make it generally available for usage (ie perhaps a government patent buyback or some such).
      I have a simpler solution. No software patents. You haven't made the case that they are necessary under any circumstances, even with your SHA example.
    4. Re:What is wrong with software patents by Znork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The real problem is that patents should only be awarded in any field based on innovativeness"

      The trouble is, for anyone skilled in a field there are few things that are truly innovative.

      Encryption algorithms may seem advanced and innovative to you, but to a mathematician they're often old news barely worth a mention in a puzzle book. And to a programmer reasonably skilled in math, it's trivial to implement something like that in code, so no real 'invention' has been made.

      Most new ideas are made up from small steps, and each of those small steps is often natural progression, incremental improvement. Hard work and toil, trying to solve a specific problem.

      But patents are not supposed to be a reward for hard work. They're not a salary. And they definitely were not meant to take away someone elses salary and prevent them from reaping the benefit of their own hard work.

      No, if we still need a state sponsored reward for inventions, let the patent office grant grants instead. If they think an invention is such a great leap that it deserves a reward, let the government pay out a cash prize instead.

      The small inventor would be far more likely to profit from such a scheme, and the patent office could have an interest in not letting someone patent the green, blue, yellow, red and black paperclip because that makes them seem five times as productive and the country five times as innovative.

    5. Re:What is wrong with software patents by fcw · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The real problem is that patents should only be awarded in any field based on innovativeness - the likelyhood that it could or would have been invented without a substantial investment of sweat equity.

      How likely something is to have been invented is completely irrelevant to the question of whether it ought to be patentable.

      Patents don't reward inventors, they protect investors. They are an economic device to encourage investment in things that otherwise are considered too risky by those with the money to pay for them. (We already have a system for rewarding inventors; it's called "business".)

      If the dot-com boom showed anything, it was that there is plentiful investment for software-related innovation; the very fact that really stupid ideas got money as well as the really good ones means that things like patents aren't needed to make software-related investment happen.

      And if things like BitTorrent and Linux show anything, it's that there is no need for any significant investment to bring new software inventions to market at all.

      If investment is readily available, or if investment is not required to bring a new idea to market, then patents are not only not required, they are an unnecessary burden that everyone pays for.

    6. Re:What is wrong with software patents by latroM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is incidentally something RMS has so far been unable to do.

      The Hurd exists and is usable today.

      While I respect the GNU people for GCC and the GPL, I don't consider the rest of the necessary stuff as all that difficult to write: libc and the unix utilities.

      The name "GNU/Linux is not only about those fundamental parts of the OS but about the fact that GNU was first to have the idea of a completely free operating system. That idea has come true in GNU+Linux.

  2. Council of Agriculture and Fisheries ??????? by MavEtJu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know that with software patents you have to seed them properly before you can harvest them later, but can somebody explain to me what it is doing on the agenda of the council of agriculture and fisheries?

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  3. Corruption by Skiron · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The biggest story here is the way the European Parliament and associated croonies keep on trying to get this directive through the backdoor without no reference to the rules, law or democratic society.

    Fisheries and Agriculture? The people behind this must be offering big backhanders to all involved to push this through at all costs, that's all I can say.

    1. Re:Corruption by BeeRockxs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The biggest story here is the way the European Parliament and associated croonies keep on trying to get this directive through the backdoor without no reference to the rules, law or democratic society.

      The European parliament is trying to get this directive axed, it's the European Council that's trying to get it through.

  4. Patents in the EU and USA by tres3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that delaying and then defeating patents in Europe is the best opportunity that we have in the USA to get the subject revisited. There is a need to have some uniformity in patent laws throughout the world, or at least with our major trading partners; if we (or more accurately, Europeans) can get Europe to defeat software patents or at least demand that they truly be inventive and not the next logical step in programming (a la one click) then there will be a need to have the two systems brought closer together. If Europe stands opposed to them, and America (Adobe/Micro$oft) stands for them then hopefully they will be forced to compromise. Not that a compromise is a good solution for us but I believe a negotiation like this is the best hope/chance that we have at bringing our patent system in line with what our Founding Fathers had in mind: "To Promote the Useful Arts and Sciences". As long as US politicians are bought and paid for by the big corporations there is no other way that this issue will come up for discussion in either the House or the Senate.

  5. Geeks of europe! Unite! by zaroastra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There should be more people active in this discussion.
    I think it dimishes our democracys (in europe) if we allow for the Europe Council circunvent the vote and opinio of the democratically elected European Parlament.
    There should be enough geeks * near the strings of power to make those in power aware of their needs.
    If that is not the case, we have to make enough noise until we are heard and the European Parlament Directives get aproved

    * I use geek in the thecnological savvy meaning.

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  6. Re:My MEP's response... UK Labour Party line by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Pedantic, but pertinent: UK Labour Party line

    I'd argue that the line being followed is that of the European Parliamentary Labour Party, not the UK Labour Party per se. The EPLP's line may very well differ from UKLP, just as the Welsh and Scottish Labour Parties differ in policies while remaining close (politically) to John Smith House.

    I suspect the EPLP is towing the GPES (European Socialists) line, while the UK Labour Party is doing whatever the Civil Service and Big Business tell it to.

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