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Breaking Away from Programming?

Posted by Cliff on from the not-just-any-coder dept.

Captain Numerica asks: "I've been working as a programmer since I graduated from high school. I've been paying my own way through college, and now I'm about to graduate with a BS in Physics. I plan on continuing my studies to a PhD in Physics, but first I need to get on my feet financially, as a fellowship/TA position isn't yet sufficient for the debt I've accumulated in my more irresponsible years. I'm leaving my university with a great deal of programming experience -- a fact that I might want to advertise to potential employers. However, at the same time I don't want to become type-casted as just a programmer, as my real skills involve analytical and experimental physics. Has anyone working as a research engineer/scientist come out of college under similar circumstances?" For those of you with significant programming skills, but the wish to focus in areas more suitable to your education, how did you avoid falling into the Programmer IT Trap?

10 of 53 comments (clear)

  1. Similar experience.... by mike77 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I came out of college w/ a degree in Physics and engineering. And while my programming experience wasn't as good as yours (lots of fortran and some C++) I found the perfect route for myself. Take what you will form it and hopefully it will help you out. I started working at a major astronomy program (think big telescope in space) If you have good physics, computer and analytic skills, you can get a job w/ just a BS. It was an excellent opportunity for the following reaons:

    1) - Good paycheck! I was making more than enough to survive and pay off debt.

    2) - Opportunity to build your resume for grad school. (all of the people I worked with went to Tier 1 schools when they left)

    3) - Ability to do research in your spare time. Researchers are always willing to accept free labor :)

    4) - Ability to take classes for free. (or at signifigant discount)

    5) - Chance to go to conferences and present research (ie, make a name for yourself)


    I can think of a few more but I actually have to get to work now. Give me an email if you want some specific suggestions and places I personally know of.


    MR

    --

    --Keeping the flame wars alive, one post at a time

    1. Re:Similar experience.... by bitingduck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I did a similar thing, but went to work for a small high tech (not computer related) company rather than a University. It paid reasonably well and I got stock options way before they were fashionable. I also saved up a fair bit of money so that when the crunch came in grad school I could remove most problems by spending money (thesis too large for computer in the days when memory cost real money? more memory overnight. Dishes stacking up? Dishwasher. Apartment such a mess you couldn't move? Cleaning service.)

      I definitely recommend working for a bit before going to grad school, especially if you haven't spent time with the day to day reality of research. I tended to work as a programmer as an undergrad, rather than in the physics dept, and while it kept me fed, I didn't get the experience of really working in a physics lab until my first job.

      Another tip for grad school is that if you don't mind housemates and can live without a car, you can live much better than people who have to live alone and have a car.

  2. I've seen the opposite problem by mangu · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It's not the people who work with programming and want to "break out" of it. The problem is with the hordes of scientists and engineers who don't know how to program. I think that a lot more emphasis should be given to programming in general and numerical analysis in particular in scientific and engineering schools.


    Otherwise, people fall into the "hammer is the only tool" trap, where every problem becomes a nail, or rather, an excel spreadsheet.

  3. Follow the Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Do not take on more debt if you can avoid it! Get a job for a couple of years to pay down existing debt and maybe save a little in preparation for grad school.

    Caveat: Don't expect to ever make lots of money as a research scientist.

  4. I'm not a real Ph.D., but I play one on /. by malcomvetter · · Score: 2, Interesting


    I'd have to agree that the education is primo. However, I am under the impression it may be best to work on your masters while being employed. Find a school where you want to study, and look for a marginally affiliated programming job while finishing up. From my experience, most companies will pay for masters, but not all for your Ph.D. And what better way to alleviate debt by not adding more debt (tuition)?

    Pay some debts, then go full bore for the Ph.D. in grad school.

  5. This is funny... by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I have a friend who did exactly the opposite...

    He got a pHD in nuclear physics, which he obtained by doing an experiment that involved extensive graphics programming on a SGI computer.

    Another friend working at $AVIONICS_COMPANY told him that they're looking for a guy with exactly his experience with SGI computers...

    So he applies for the job, only to have it rejected because he's "overqualified" (that pHD shure must have shocked the socks off the HR drone who read it)...

    Fortunately, some pushing was done and he has got the job...

    1. Re:This is funny... by gowen · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So he applies for the job, only to have it rejected because he's "overqualified"
      Anybody working in HR for a company that required skilled, intelligent personnel who rejects an applicant as "overqualified" wants shooting. In effect, the applicant has said "I could do something much better paid, but I want to do your job."

      And the HR has said "No, I want you to be rich but miserable, and I want us to employ someone working at the extremes of his ability who is, in all likelihood, angling to leave for somewhere better paid..."
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  6. Get MS Part time/find a Co-Op to Pay school by rovitotv · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work for the government in a military research lab doing cool research. Currently I make good money and the government pays for my school. My thesis is government related so I can do thesis work on the clock and I have an entire army of PhD's to help me out. So I recommend applying to Grad school (close to a government lab) then looking for a job/co-op position that will help pay for school. For the first two quarters of my MS degree I was making a living from a Teaching Assitantship and it sucked. The downside to this approach is it takes forever to graduate and you can't pick your own research topic. I can only take a single class at a time because I am required to do some real work at work. The thing to remember is most of the leadership at government labs are looking to retire so they are looking for people to fill in the open positions and a Co-Op is a cheap way to test somebody. A Co-Op at a gov lab will get you thru school and might even get you a full time position in the end plus some good money. Good luck!

  7. I did this successfully by jnik · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I graduated with a BA in physics (note that often a BA looks better for grad school admissions than a BS, as it implies a broader background) and a BS in computer science. After three years of grunt programming in the business world, I went back to grad school and am two years into my PhD. My suggestions:
    • If you can find a lab job or similar (check into NIST, NRAO, etc.), it might help in a number of ways: real learning, some taste for research, look good on the resume. But it'll suck, hardcore, for paying off those debts.
    • Keep all your undergrad stuff around--notes, texts, etc. It'll come in handy for admissions, GRE cramming, and when you apply to MIT, they want a complete list of textbooks you used as an undergrad
    • Don't slack off now--your grades in your advanced courses will have a big effect on your admissions prospects. Get a paper published if you can.
    • Keep your hand in. Poke through OCW and study stuff you didn't cover well in undergrad. Learn IDL or Matlab if you haven't already (and can afford the licenses--in fact, look into a student license now).
    • Plan well in advance for the GRE--you'll need to be taking it nearly a year before sending in applications, so you have to register well in advance for the subject tests (the general's a lot easier to get into). Prepare hard for the subject test--I found this was a real learning process where I assimilated all my knowledge from four years of undergrad.
    • Take on learning opportunities in your job. Anything you can learn, any skill you can develop, is worth having. On my applications I underscored that I had three years of working in a company and dealing with clients, that I knew how to run a small project, that I understood concepts of deadlines and budgets, and that I could effectively communicate technical information to non-technical people. This sort of thing will differentiate you from the fresh out of college crowd.
    • Keep living like a student--cheap and focussed. It's easy to get distracted and spend all your time (except for work) and money on having fun. Moderate that urge.
  8. Work for NASA, etc. by Bamfarooni · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Good research programmers are hard to find, and places like JPL, Los Alamos and Ames are pretty much always looking for people in this area. They're also on the bleeding edge of research and closely integrated with some of the best grad schools in the country.