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Intuit Disables Features in Quicken To Force Upgrades

Posted by michael on from the dog-bites-man dept.

Numerous people submitted a blurb from BoingBoing about Intuit disabling features in older versions of Quicken. Why the BoingBoing submitter and Mr. Doctorow are so upset about this I don't know; when you buy software that's dependent on a for-profit company to keep working, what do you expect?

26 of 617 comments (clear)

  1. And what alternative do you have? by blowdart · · Score: 5, Insightful
    when you buy software that's dependent on a for-profit company to keep working, what do you expect?

    Considering there are no (that I know of) open source or not for profit alternatives that allow you to pay your bills online like Quicken does what alternative do users have?

    1. Re:And what alternative do you have? by bwalling · · Score: 4, Funny

      Considering there are no (that I know of) open source or not for profit alternatives that allow you to pay your bills online like Quicken does what alternative do users have?

      Well, there's Microsoft Money!

    2. Re:And what alternative do you have? by rah1420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that the tail's wagging the dog. Why on Earth are people using their check register to pay their bills?

      I log onto my web site with Firefox and use my bank's online bill pay feature to pay my bills. I can download these transactions into whatever money manager supports their download format. I don't bother, preferring to scrape the screen and put the display into a text editor, as I can then import it into my spreadsheet with a few clicks.

      Cost: About $6 a month. Beholden to: Only my bank, and I trust them to be the custodian of my money anyway, so I'd better trust them.

      Intuit has been sending me begging and pleading letters to upgrade my Quicken 4.0 for years, and all I do is laugh and throw them in the recycling bin.

      Do I want Intuit telling my bank what to do? Hell no! That's why I do this rather than initiate bill pays from the payee's web site; you gotta push, don't pull the transaction.

      Hint: If you use the bank's software to communicate with the bank, you'll never have a problem.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
    3. Re:And what alternative do you have? by Gryphon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's no guarantee of security no matter how you do your banking. A major bank in Canada (CIBC) lost a lot of credibility when it was discovered they'd (mistakenly) been sending customer records, unshredded, to a junk yard somewhere in the United States.

      The sad part is the junk yard owner was calling the bank for two years to report this to them, and they didn't listen.

      When the guy finally called the media, CIBC sued the junk yard owner!

    4. Re:And what alternative do you have? by Geek+of+Tech · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nah, if it ain't got Clippy, it ain't worth nuttin'.

      --
      Stop the Slashdot effect! Don't read the articles!
  2. Whatever happened.. by Ckwop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    .. to just producing a decent product and letting the market decide if it wants it or not? Why does every corporation have to be a blood thirsty, morally defunct, money grabing ass?

    This is why I choose free software because it's in the spirit of cooperation rather than subversion.

    Simon.

    1. Re:Whatever happened.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I used to work for Intuit UK and they were bastards. Just before they pulled their call centre out of the UK and into Canada, they made all the support staff make sales calls.

      People were waiting 1-2 hours to get support and there were a hundred people in the queue. Meanwhile the support staff had to make cold calls, which they hated.

      Then they suddenley closed the call centre and left all those people without jobs.

      I've never bought Intuit products since.

    2. Re:Whatever happened.. by bersl2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "In [a free-market] economy there is one and only one social responsibility of business to use its resources and engage in activities designed to increase its profits so long as it stays within the rules of the game, which is to say, engages in open and free competition, without deception and fraud." -- Milton Friedman

      The problem is that, of course, few of them do go without "deception and fraud."

    3. Re:Whatever happened.. by tdemark · · Score: 5, Informative

      I used to work for Intuit UK and they were bastards.

      Intuit in general are bastards.

      Any time you try to import a text transaction file (QFX), the program calls home to see if the organization you downloaded from paid its "Quicken Tax".

      When I called tech support because I was getting an error message when trying to import, Intuit told me that "my bank doesn't support Macs", even though I already had the QFX file.

      Me: "I don't understand. I have the file, but Quicken won't import it."

      Tech: "Your bank doesn't support Macs."

      Me: "Why does my bank need to 'support' Macs? I have the text file, but Quicken won't import it."

      Think how ridiculous it would be if Excel wouldn't import a CSV file until it called back to MS to verify that author paid an "MS Tax" (insert DRM/Palladium comment here)?

      Anyway, I got around the issue by opening the file and changing the "Institution ID" to a bank that has "paid the tax". By simply changing a few characters in the file, Quicken happily imported it.

    4. Re:Whatever happened.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      >>Any time you try to import a text transaction file (QFX),
      >>the program calls home to see if the organization you downloaded from paid its "Quicken Tax".

      I can't stress how true the previous poster's comment is. I lead a team of developers that just finished implementing QFX support for our company, a mid-sized financial institution. The contract terms that Intuit insisted on are truly outrageous. Sure enough, if the customer has a QFX file, but we aren't a "supported" organization, Quicken phones home and will refuse to import the file. This isn't a threat to Quicken users - it's a threat to the *banks*. The amount we had to pay to be "allowed" to continue providing the same support for our customers who had already been downloading QIF files for years was, uh, a LOT. They also strongly "encouraged" us to cripple or disable support for older versions.

      During testing, we were not allowed to go live with our upgraded service until we passed their test suites. Problem is, their testing process was neither well-defined nor timely. They promised us a certain scheudle, and then reported "problems" during testing that weren't originally described. When these threatened to delay our production schedule, our customer rep slyly hinted that if we wanted to pay an additional fee, that they could "bump up" our testing in front of other companies. It was a *large* additional fee. It took some high level calls from our management, involving literal screaming, before they would agree to stick to the original schedule.

      I am stunned, truly, that Intuit hasn't been held up for antitrust scrutiny at this point. They held financial companies with far more money than them over a barrel, in their latest round of "upgrades". Surely, I keep thinking, it won't be long until some of the big boys round up Intuit and take them out behind the woodshed for a good beating - legal, financial, literal, take your pick.

    5. Re:Whatever happened.. by activewire · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agree, mod parent's parent up. This is the REAL story that gets easily lost in slashdot noise.

      Intuit can play both ends: they squeeze the customer with forced upgrades, and the banks with "compatibility" policies.

      There is no technical reason why my Quicken 2000 stopped importing QFX files on 4/18/2004: the file format hasn't changed. In fact, I can STILL download QFX from my bank and rename the FID (financial instution id) and it works! Its also possible to edit "hosts" file to block the Intuit "phone home"
      127.0.0.1 ofx-prod-brand.intuit.com,
      127.0.0.1 ofx-prod-fiusage.intuit.com
      127.0.0.1 ofx-prod-cuusage.intuit.com

      What I dont understand is why banks agree to this?
      If every bank would just allow download of OFX from their website, customers could take Intuit's
      "branding" servers out of this loop, a place where Intuit never belonged in the first place.

      I finally said "screw you Intuit" and have been happily importing OFX files into GnuCash for 6 months.

  3. Re:Why not GnuCash? by blowdart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because it doesn't run on the same OS as Quicken? Because it supports a standard that banks are only starting to open up to?

    If software doesn't run on your OS and doesn't talk to your bank then the fact that it's open doesn't help much.

    (And no, it doesn't talks to my bank)

  4. Troll Article by jdhutchins · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article made a good point, but michael didn't have to add his flamebait last line. When you buy something, you usually expect it to keep working and not be disabled over time. Yes, maybe corporations are evil, but for the most part, when you buy something, it keeps working. I have a computer running Windows 95 that runs just as well as when we first bought it. That's coming from Microsoft, the Big Evil. We read the summaries to start discussions ourselves, not to have incendiary statements put in there just for the fun of it.

    On a side note, is anyone here a laywer who knows about retail law? There could very well be a law that they're breaking here, opening themselves up to a class-action lawsuit.

    1. Re:Troll Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, this article doesn't even make a good point. Way to go michael. As usual your over-enthusiasm for yellow "journalism" has run amuck and the worst kind of lies are now being discussed as truth.

      As it stands, users of existing Quicken products prior to the Quicken 2005 edition are being "forced" to upgrade to Quicken 2005 because Quicken ended their long-time relationship with Checkfree Corp. sometime last year. Checkfree provided the backend online bill payment features in the Quicken products originally, but Intuit, unsatisfied with the cost of Checkfree's services decided to choose a different vendor to provide this type of feature in their upcoming 2005 version. Intuit decided to not continue the relationship with Checkfree for users who did not want to upgrade to the new product, so Intuit had to "force" upgrades for users who still wanted to use the online bill pay features of the Quicken products. Therefore, if you had purchased Quicken 2000 - Quicken 2004 (I think?) the upgrade to Quicken 2005 Basic (or Standard?) was free. All you had to do as a user was request an upgrade CD from Quicken. Sure, some people don't want to change their software package when the old one works just fine, which is why Intuit keeps sending current customers of their older software these notices that they need to upgrade. In other words, Intuit is saying: "If you want to keep using the Bill Pay features of our Quicken software, you MUST upgrade to our latest version so that our new backend payments processor can start sending your payments for you." Maybe that's a not-so-smart business move for Intuit to make, or maybe they aren't clearly communicating that the reason for the forced upgrade is for the online payments engine issue, but it's certainly not illegal or deceptive. They can't use Checkfree to process their payments anymore, period. So users need to upgrade to keep using that feature.

      Now I will disclose that I do not work for Quicken, but do work for a player in the "financial services" industry, so when it comes to this stuff, I know what I'm talking about. I'm more concerned about why /. continues to employ this POS, michael. He is the reason that people call people who love Linux "GNU hippies." He is such a freaking joke! Not only does he make sure to post unverified, inflammatory "articles" submitted by similarly-minded /.'ers as himself, but he also continuously feels the need to add those shitty little quips on to the end of the article which he clearly never reads, and NEVER verifies for accuracy. I call BIG FAT BULL SHIT on this "article!"

    2. Re:Troll Article by bwy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This article made a good point, but michael didn't have to add his flamebait last line. We read the summaries to start discussions ourselves, not to have incendiary statements put in there just for the fun of it.

      Thank you. Very well put and I hope the point is taken.

  5. Microsoft Money does this, too by cygnusx · · Score: 4, Informative

    From http://www.microsoft.com/uk/homepc/money/ProductDe tails.aspx?pid=003:

    Internet-based services available for two (2) years after activation of Microsoft Money or 1 September 2007, whichever is earlier. See the Microsoft Money Internet-based services policy http://money.msn.com/Money/2005/GBR/IBSP.asp for details.

    If you don't upgrade, you'll be able to use the software as before, but not the Internet-based services (AFAIK).

  6. I work at a bank by aardwolf64 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work at a financial institution and am in charge of support for PFMs (Personal Finance Managers) including Microsoft Money and Quicken. The reason that Quicken is sunsetting support for online banking in 2001 and 2002 is that your online transactions actually come through Intuit's server, which accesses your bank server on your behalf. You can still use the older versions of Quicken, you just can't download transactions.

    Microsoft Money on the other hand still works since it connects directly to the bank's OFX server. Although my bank only supports 2001 and newer, we have users that are actually connecting with Money 1999 with no problems.

  7. You don't have to upgrade by sd790 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I received a similar letter a few weeks back and immediately called my bank to find out if this was really going to affect my ability to use their online banking services. They told me that this will NOT cause any problems and I DON'T have to upgrade to continue using their online banking system. The only thing that I'll lose is my ability to Intuit's help desk, which I'll never do anyways.

    Call your bank and check. You probably don't have to bother with it.

  8. That is Incorrect by aardwolf64 · · Score: 4, Informative
    From Quicken's Sunset policy FAQ:

    Q: What will happen if I don't upgrade?

    A: As of April 19, 2005, in accordance with the Quicken sunset policy, Online Services1 and Live Technical Support2 will no longer be available for Quicken 2001 and 2002 users. This means that you will no longer be able to download financial data into older Quicken software. You will still be able to manually enter your data.

    Attempts to use Online Services after April 19, 2005 will result in a variety of program error messages related to the feature or service you try to access.

    Quicken's Sunset Policy

    FAQ
  9. This happened with me and Toys 'R Us by nysus · · Score: 4, Funny

    I bought this electronic drum set for my kid at Toys 'R Us. A year, later, this guy in a yellow and orange vest comes to my door with a hammer. I let him in and he proceeds to smash the drums into tiny fragments, making my kid cry. He says, "Sorry, the model of your drum set is out of date. You have to buy the new model." What else could I do? I had to pay another $50 or my kid would go nuts.

    --

    ---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.

  10. Try MoneyDance by czei · · Score: 5, Informative

    I got fed up with Intuit's bug-ridden software and abysmal tech. support in 2003 and switched to MoneyDance. The GUI isn't as slick, but I ended up spending way less time on finances because the program's well-written and well supported. Instead of talking to tech. support people on the other side of the world who are just reading from a support database you can get email back from one of the developer's in a couple of hours and your questions are answered quickly, accurately, and for free.

    I looked at some open source programs at the time, but the big draw for me to MoneyDance initially was it will automatically download transactions from my bank, and there's a great matching algorithm to stick the transactions in the right budget category.

  11. Re:Why not GnuCash? by scarolan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cause GnuCash is hard to use, that's why! Yes, you and I understand that the double-entry accounting system is the proper way to do things but try explaining that to my wife who is in charge of paying the bills each month, with online billpay through Quicken no less. The problem Intuit has run into is that their software reached its full-featured peak around 1999 or 2000, after that there really wasn't anywhere for them to go. What do you do when your software has all the features the end-user needs, and works well enough for most people? With open source software, once a project has reached maturity, it can be left alone and become a useful tool for years and years afterwards. Take for example something like vi/vim - it does everything a text editor should do. But the developers who work on it do not have anxious shareholders knocking at the door wanting to see never-ending growth and profits. Hence Intuit has to force the customers to upgrade to squeeze out more profits.

  12. Re:MOD RACIST PARENT DOWN by Bendy+Chief · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Yellow journalism" refers to the use of yellow ink in the printing of an old sensationalist newspaper, The New York World.

    It was brought to the pinnacle of sleaziness by William Randolph Hearst, who used his empire to destroy the hemp industry, foster anti-immigrant sentiment, and commit numerous other evils.

    I realize it sounds racist, but it ain't.

  13. Parent Assumption Wrong, Article Correct (gasp) by Somegeek · · Score: 4, Informative
    Please mod parent -1 Self Important, Would Rather Post Than Read.

    Here is a the link, (from the article quoted in the Michael's story), to the Intuit statement:

    http://www.intuit.com/support/quicken/sunset/

    where Intuit states (amidst the spin doctoring):

    "As of April 19th, 2005, in accordance with the Quicken sunset policy, Online Services1 and Live Technical Support2 will no longer be available for Quicken 2001 and 2002 users. These services include online bill pay; downloading financial data from your bank, credit union, credit card, brokerage, 401(k) or mutual fund accounts; downloading stock quotes, news headlines and other financial information into Quicken; uploading portfolio information from Quicken to Quicken.com; and access to the investing features on Quicken.com including portfolio tracking, any watch lists you have created, One-Click Scorecard(TM), Stock Evaluator and Mutual Fund Evaluator. To continue using these services and maintain access to live technical support from an Intuit representative, you will need to upgrade."
    --
    And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
    1. Re:Parent Assumption Wrong, Article Correct (gasp) by Thing+1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I am a Quicken 2000 user. My online services were turned off a year ago.

      I will give them not one more cent of my hard-earned money. I started with Quicken back before they used years as version numbers, and bought 5 or 6 upgrades. 2000 was "good enough" although they didn't easily handle put/call options.

      But after last year, FUCK THEM! And they didn't even learn from it, I mean, it's not like my packets between me and my bank have to go through Intuit's servers and thus they have costs that they want to keep down by turning off my ability to communicate with my bank.

      This is a money grab, pure and simple, one that I had to deal with last year and never will again.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  14. Re:MOD RACIST PARENT DOWN by imperious_rex · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, you should be offended. Racism is *everywhere*. Here's some examples of insidious racism that has crept into our lives:

    white sale
    white paper
    white-out
    "Dreaming of a White Christmas"

    blackboard
    black-out
    blacklist
    Black Forest
    Black Sea
    "Paint it Black"

    brown bag
    brown-out
    Charlie Brown
    UPS's "What can brown do for you?" ads

    yellow journalism
    yellow as slang for "cowardice"
    yellow birch
    yellow dog contract
    yellow fever

    pinky
    pinko

    and that's just the tip of the iceberg! For those who find racism in anything that refers to colors found in human pigmentation, life is a never ending struggle to avoid being offended. Your plight has touched us all.