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Fansubbers Under Fire
CNet is running a story about new developments in the fansubbing world. The article provides some background, and then discusses
Media Factory's recent letters to fansubbers demanding removal of their shows. Historically the studios have turned a blind eye towards the work of the fansubbers, and the assumption has always been they they secretly approve since the fans work is amazing market research. I've bought countless DVDs based entirely on the work of fansubbers, so I hope that this isn't the beginning of the end.
For everyone else asking that question, they apparently translate foreign movies and make English subtitles.
From the article (assuming you're like me in wondering what "fansubbing" is):
Trolling is a art,
My opinion as a very minor fansubber (and this is held by various large fansubbing sites I'm not going to link from slashdot) is that it is fine to fansub until some American company announces they have aquired the licence to an anime, at which point you stop.
These people appear to be continuing to distribute and subtitle anime after this has happened. In some cases it looks like they are continuing to distribute a fansub after an anime is released.
Personally I think just as bad as downloading an actual pirated copy of an anime. Of course I do do that. But I know it's pirating and don't try to pretend it's anything else.
These companies don't appear to be going after fansubbers who are fansubbing things which haven't had, and probably won't get, an American release.
Combination - fun iPhone puzzling
Most fansubbing groups operate on morality vs. legality.
They will sub, and release, a series until there is a company that picks it up and says "we are going to do this". And then they drop it. At which point, most drop all sources for all episodes both future and already released. This is why studios don't have a problem with most groups. It doesn't dilute the market enough to bother with.
I don't consider this practice immoral. However, given the current state of copyright laws, it is illegal. Doing fansubs, or DLing them is an at-risk practice for all parties involved.
Much like driving 5MPH over the speed limit, or doing a rolling stop at a stop sign. Illegal and immoral do not always coincide.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
If you want Japanese cartoons before they're released in English, learn Japanese.
And then what? Watch them as they're broadcast in Japanese on local TV here in the States? Good luck! Even if you live in heavy Japanese settled areas you are unlikely to find much Japanese language programming. Fansubs usually come out as the shows are being broadcast in Japan. Fansubbers then do a lot of hard work to provide their own translations of these shows.
Finally, the entire anime fan community has a strong "buy a licensed version" ethos. If the Japanese companies who make these shows were to release subtitled versions of the shows online for a reasonable fee I suspect that fansubbing would screech to a halt (so I don't get what you're talking about with fansubbers "creating barriers to legitimate online distribution" there is no current legitimate online distribution--if there were, there would be no need for fansubs). I think the typical fansub viewer would prefer the original audio with subtitles over any English remake of the dialog anyway.
I do not have a signature
I dumped this from a PDF file Lunar Anime received. Most of those in the fansubbing community know that we respect US licenses, so we're also respecting MFI's request. Please note that Lunar is only doing KgNE from that list.
--
Name of sender:
FUKUI Kensaku
fukui@kottolaw.com
Admitted in Japan and New York
TELEPHONE:(813)5766-8980
FACSIMILE: (813)5466-1107
KOTTO DORI LAW OFFICE
MINAMI AOYAMA POINT 1ST FLR.
18-5, MINAMI AOYAMA 5-CHOME
MINATO-KU, TOKYO 107-0062 JAPAN
December 7, 2004
LUNARANIME.ORG
[removed address]
Re: Copyright Infringement on Web Site
Dear Madame/Sir,
I am a legal counsel of Media Factory, Inc. and writing this letter in that capacity.
Media Factory, Inc. ("MFI") is one of Japanese major animation film producers and owns or jointly owns with other companies copyrights and trademarks regarding various Japanese anime films including the following works ("Works"):
Gankutsuou
Rahxephon
Genshiken
Kimi ga nozomu Eien
Recently, MFI found that certain unauthorized copies of the Works are uploaded to the following web site(s) considered to be managed by you ("your web site") and/or that users are induced on or through your web site to certain web sites containing such unauthorized copies. Such unauthorized copies may be downloaded by users in many countries including Japan from such web sites without charge. We believe that a large number of unauthorized copies have already been flowed out through such web sites.
www.lunaranime.org
Needless to say, unauthorized copying and upload and distribution of such copies are serious copyright infringement. Absolutely no money goes to creators and anime producers of the Works from such illegal distribution.
I hereby request you to cease and terminate said upload and/or inducement immediately and erase all the copies of the Works under your possession. Please confirm the termination and erasure in writing to my contact address set forth as above within ten (10) business days of your receipt of this letter either by mail or facsimile.
In case we cannot confirm said termination and erasure within such period, we will need to consider commencing necessary legal action.
This letter is sent without prejudice to any of MFI's rights or remedies. Sincerely,
FUKUI Kensaku Attorney at law
Not quite, they take TV recordings of animes that aren't available in the destination country, sub them, and release them onto the net, kind of like haveing a japanese freind send you this weeks episode with a resume of what goes on.
As soon as someone in the destination country starts producing (or even state that they intend to start producing) the anime in question, it disapears without trace from the web.
The idea is to get to see footage that will probably never be translated (and in most cases isn't, especially into non english languages, France here), not to kill off the japenese film industry.
I've got loads at home, but I also have a lot of Mangas, DVD's etc that I acquired after they were (finally) released. FYI a 4 year wait isn't uncommun.
Ask 8 slackers a question, get 10 awnsers (a citation, but I can't remember from who)
..in general, fansubs are made because there is no official english version. You can occasionally get separate subtext files too (some come as video + subtext file), but for the most part they come together.
Like elsewhere, the shows are typically aired long before they appear on DVD (even foreign DVD). So the only means of getting the video, unless you happen to be in that country, is to download a copy. Think of it as the usual "I download Stargate because it's not available here" with a translation to boot.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Umm, actually, that was a "professional" translation, not a fansub.
This has been going on for 20 years, and in fact was largely ignored by the anime companies until recently because there was an unspoken agreement over stopping subbing when a license was available.
This was fine for those in the US, but led to a lot of disgruntled European fans who were waiting years beyond the extensive wait for a US release for their own. So, the dispute ended up being about subs continuing after domestic (US) release-- companies like ADV argue that sub distribution should stop after a US release, and European sub groups disagree.
Then add in the pirate groups that were doing their own things outright.
It's been a grey-area issue for a very long time, and is hindered additionally by the fact that the anime release companies in the US pay attention to sub groups to find out what people *want*.
I'm curious about who this savant is for whom learning Japanese is "easy if you're not an idiot". Is it the same guy as the one who informed me a few weeks ago that developing the RSA algorithm should "take a CS sophomore 30 minutes"?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Manga are not subtitled. A translated manga is either a "scanslation" (fan-made, from a blend of 'scan' and 'translation' -- manga are scanned and then translated) or "dual language" (release by Japanese companies for the readership to study English).
URL is http://www.lolikon.org/guide.html
I'd also like to point out that fansubs are likely to spread the Japanese culture a lot more than any dubbed-and-slashed US versions released. Granted, this may not be an amazing thing for American companies looking for quick profits on a new frontier, but I believe Japan as a nation will benefit in the end.
Under the Berne convention, everything copyrightable is copyrighted by default. You don't have to include a (c) either. The copyright is equally valid in all signing countries, which is ~100 nations, and all of the important ones. This post is copyrighted in the US and Japan. So is yours. It's as simple as that.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
... that quite a few fansub groups no longer have a website or an IRC channel. They simply sub the files and distribute them to a few trusted individuals.
Once they're distributed, they're virtually impossible to eliminate because they're sent over bittorrent, usenet, p2p networks, and online storage services like Streamload. There are still tons of copies of Ranma 1/2 encoded in old Realplayer files floating around.
I would imagine that in the long run, the companies' crackdown on these groups is going to make the groups change their stances from simply subbing until US licensing to subbing until completion regardless of the licensing. The companies might be right in their defenses of their abilities to distribute their products, but Americans don't have the ability to watch a show to completion and then decide they want to purchase the DVD like the Japanese do (OVAs not withstanding).
Actually, not al anime is a cartoon. From the webster online dictionary, a cartoon is a "a drawing intended as satire, caricature, or humor". Not all anime is intended to be that way. Some of them are drawn realistically. Would you consider the paintings of Da Vinci cartoons? Of course not. The same applies to lots of anime shows and movies. And since anime is a medium rather than a genre, it would be better to call it animation.
Just my two cents.
Fansubbers typically choose anime that is released in Japan, but has not been liscened for distribution in other countries yet.
.VIV frmat (vivo). We will not further speak it's name here. Other formats have come and gone, most everything is done in divx or ogg/xvid format now. Quality is very high. I think this may have something to do with the crackdown.
Fansubbing has been around for quite a while, and traditionally it was done using VHS equipment. My experience with the fansubbing community has vastly changed in the last few years due to changing video compression capabilities. VHS fansubbing usually was associated with poor quality, where you would be getting 2nd, 3rd, and even lower generation tapes. The first fansubbed anime I ever got on the internet was in the
The legality was questionable to begin with. You have a huge industry in japan, with a negligable market in the US. They used to overlook it because they do not sell in the US. Things have changed, and now more and more anime is making it's way over here. So now you have a situation where it isn't illegal to copy the anime and sub it for the US, it will be if the anime ever gets liscensed for distro in the US. It becomes more and more of a problem the more mainstream anime gets.
As always, wikipedia beats me to it. More or less what I have said above.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship