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Fingerprints Replace Credit Cards in Seattle

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the well-in-one-store-anyway dept.

prostoalex writes "According to CNET News.com, Thriftway introduced biometric systems in its Seattle stores as far back as 2002. The customer would have to be identified first and submit his own fingerprints, as well as register credit cards with the grocery store. But then a Pay By Touch system became quite popular among the store regulars. According to CNET, "one man even drove 400 miles to use the technology". The store also reports 0% of such transactions being fraudulent."

10 of 376 comments (clear)

  1. It's the automated transactions I'm worried about by bersl2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The store also reports 0% of such transactions being fraudulent."

    I don't think anybody's going to let you buy stuff with a severed finger.

  2. In other words ... by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The store also reports 0% of such transactions being fraudulent."
    In other words... they haven't caught me yet !!!

    What it could also mean is that most people don't reconcile their statements at the end of the month, and that the people who use this system are even more likely not to bother, because they trust it more.

    Or not.

    But give it time, someone will figure out how to scam it.

    1. Re:In other words ... by LurkerXXX · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Don't worry about the violence. It's not necessary.

      Worry about the problem of leaving the thumbs at home though. That's a real concern. Going about your daily activities everyday, you don't leave tons of impressions of your credit card numbers. You do leave lots of impressions of your fingerprints. That's why cops can dust for them on all sorts of materiels that might be touched everyday by someone. Doorknobs, walls, a drinking glass, etc.

      Who's going to risk attacking you in an alley for your fingerprints? You might fight back. You might know martial arts, heck, you might have a gun. Why take that risk? All they have to do is snag your glass from the table at the restaurant you just finished eating at. No confrontation, no risk, and your biometric security is now screwed forever since you can't just go get a new set of thumbprints.

  3. Supposing you had a decent resolution... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Picture of a fingerprint, how could you "print" it out, complete with ridges? Laytex, or maybe silicone would be nice, something I could glue to my fingertips, temporarily. Also, what are the oldest fingerprints available, that would show up in a search? I'd like to be a 170 yr old, 90 yrs dead suspect, or, supposing celebrity fingerprints are available, George W. Bush himself!

    And then for when I get caught, fingerprints with an embedded "Fuck You Pigs" logo that would show up on the fingerprint card....

  4. Kind of scary actually by DarKry · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Someone may have more experience with this than I do, but this is a bit scary. Has anyone else read the book "Stealing the Network". It goes into some detail on the subject of synthetic fingerprints and just how easy they are to make at home. The book is at home and I am at work or I would post the links that they have as refereneces. I can see the usefulness of the fingerprint perhaps replacing the signature or pin number, but the whole credit card!!! I don't know about you guys but when I realize that I left my credit card sitting around in a public place I freak out. I guess I am going to have to wear gloves from now on, or carry around a bottle of cleaning solution everywhere I go.

    Someone with more experience please comment, especially if you have the links from that book, I am curious to read up.

    Thanks

    --
    Crawl This - http://darkry.net/test/test.php
  5. 2 Questions by bwcarty · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1) Have sales of gummy bears experienced a dramatic surge in the area?

    and...

    2) Can I choose which finger to give them for my biometrics?

  6. Re:It's the automated transactions I'm worried abo by D.+Book · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Well, severed fingers don't work on optic fingerprint readers, so it doesn't really matter if the clerk is an idiot.

    From an article (reg req'd) on identity theft:

    But hardcore criminals are already trying to get around biometrics. At a security conference last week, the director of investigations and forensic services at PricewaterhouseCoopers, Richard Batten, related a gruesome anecdote from a bank official he met recently.

    The banker had told Batten that the bank's fingerprint identification had been compromised after a criminal chopped the finger off a wealthy individual. While heat-sensitive devices should have been alert, the criminal had warmed the finger before applying it to access the person's account.

    Batten ponders: "How effective is it if villains are prepared to go to such lengths?"

    True story? Who knows, but the moral of it is not to put all your faith in technology, and never underestimate criminals. Some may not be very bright, but that's more than made up for by their cunning.
  7. Identity theft would require a two phase approach by crovira · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The only finnicky part is getting your fingerprint pattern key (the raw info is not sent, it gets crunched down by the scanner,) into the database on somebody ELSE's account. HE will be the one stuck with the bill.

    You can then run the scam the same way.

    Actually it takes less balls to do it because either it works and your laughing or it doesn't and your mutter something about a new scar on your fingerprint to a clerk.

    You don't have to worry about getting caught because you're going to have created a false positive (doubling the key) rather than replacing a real record.

    Your fingerprint is essentially worthless for security when you've got access to a scanner and to the system.

    The trust-worthyness of the original scanner and scannee is the key. The more paranoid you need to be, the more data points you pick, and the more tightly you control the access to the system.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  8. Re:It's the automated transactions I'm worried abo by RollingThunder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I recall a review of some new biometric-enabled mice that came out, and the trivial way to trick them - cup your hand over the sensor, and breathe softly on it.

    The existing oils will pick up the water vapor to form the pattern of the last finger on it, and the heat of the breath triggered the sensor to read it.

    What amused me the most was I went to tell my boss at the time how these researchers had found such a simple way to break it, and he said "Oh... I just bought one of those yesterday." Heh.

  9. Re:Ah... by kjamez · · Score: 3, Interesting

    you joke, but that's the main reason i moved 'home' to Tennessee from Oregon. in greeneville, voted 2000 Best Small Town in America (or something), i can walk into the bar, have a few drinks, and leave. 'Running tabs' as it were. (the TN A.B.C says this is illegal and comes ready with a $1500 fine, per offense ... ) This method of purchase / interaction with store owners includes (but not limited to) the local hardware store, grocery store, computer shack, etc, etc. I enjoy the fact if i forget my wallet/chequebook/safe-deposit key (the last one is frightening, but true.) the clerk knows me and i can simply say 'can i bring you a cheque tomorrow?' ...

    smaller towns you loose too much privacy, bigger towns you have no hope of being remebered. I personally like the middle of all that, which is why tn is a great place. .02$us.

    --
    you can't have everything, where would you put it?