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Star Wars Galaxies Overhaul Continues

With the combat update to Star Wars Galaxies coming up soon, you would have thought the design changes to the game would have slowed. Instead, the development team is making major changes to just about every system, with looting changes, a complete revamp of the PVP system, the addition of a Planetary Control Meta Game to the design, and for good measure a well thought out Veteran Rewards program is going to be added to the game. Criticism of the game's real or percieved flaws aside, you have to be impressed with the team's dedication to the virtual world.

41 comments

  1. Seems familiar by ummcdou4 · · Score: 3, Funny


    Who wants to bet the developers have been playing World of Warcraft and have discovered things that work?

    "Hey Bob! Check out this looting system!"

    Now get to work!

    1. Re:Seems familiar by NormanEinstein · · Score: 1

      I thought of WoW when I saw this article too.

      Galaxies is so enormously unfun to play that I honestly wonder if they wouldn't be better served to close shop for a while and come back with a fresh offering in a year or year and a half.

    2. Re:Seems familiar by Telvin_3d · · Score: 1

      What? A major publisher loose a year and a half of income simply to make a batter game? In the words of The Princess Bride 'Inconceivable!'

    3. Re:Seems familiar by miu · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that loot system in at least a dozen MUDs (and FFXI), as it was a somewhat common loot method in tabletop RPGs.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    4. Re:Seems familiar by shoptroll · · Score: 1

      By "Inconcievable" you must mean "Delay"

      See also: "Valve", "3DRealms", "Starcraft:Ghost", "Games Industry"

      --
      Insert Sig Here
    5. Re:Seems familiar by EddieBurkett · · Score: 1
      By "Inconcievable" you must mean "Delay" . . . See also: "Valve", "3DRealms", "Starcraft:Ghost", "Games Industry"
      While its not unheard of to delay a game as you point out, why should Sony take SWG offline and sacrifice 18 months of subscriber fees?
      --
      The only thing I hate more than hypocrites are people who hate hypocrites.
    6. Re:Seems familiar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh?

      Are you saying that most RPGs have a loot system? Well, duh.

      Are you comparing the new looting system that SWG will use to other games?

      Are you comparing the looting system WoW uses to other games? (In which case FFXI shouldn't be mentioned, WoW's system is far better than FFXI's. You have two choices in FFXI, Quartermaster where one person receives all loot, and Lottery, where everyone casts lots on all loot. No one ever used Quartermaster, except to steal loot from other players who out-lotted them.)

      Your post has me totally confused.

    7. Re:Seems familiar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The game actually had loot options when it launched, but they didn't work so Sony turned them off.

    8. Re:Seems familiar by Holdstrong · · Score: 1
      If they are smart business people, this is exactly what they have been doing. WoW is superior to their product in every way shape and form and the market shares show it... they need to fire the people who led them astray, can the devs who still cant fox the simple annoying bugs that drive people to quite, and re-adjust the game so that it is FUN.

      They had the vehicle to make a smash hit of a game (Star Wars) and they blew it.... big time.

    9. Re:Seems familiar by Ackmo · · Score: 0

      loose

      You keep using that word -- I do not think it means what you think it means.

    10. Re:Seems familiar by miu · · Score: 1
      Your post has me totally confused.

      I made a sloppy edit of the first sentence of the post and chopped out a bunch of words.

      What I meant to say was: I'm pretty sure that the new SWG loot system has been used by MUDs, FFXI, and D&D prior to being used in WoW. The post I was replying to stated that SWG was copying WoW, and my point was that the lot and quartermaster systems for dividing loot had been used in FFXI, which got the idea from MUDs, which got the idea from tabletop RPGs.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    11. Re:Seems familiar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well it should! Hooked on phonics seems to have failed him.

    12. Re:Seems familiar by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

      Unlike WoW, SWG wasn't meant to be loot-oriented. Except for a few reeeeally rare drops of legendary items, the best items had to be bought from a skilled player armorsmith or weaponsmith. So looting in SWG was never a big deal. Even skinning good Avian/Herbivore meat was more exciting than waiting for loot drops. And even then, it was tedious collecting it all day long, just so you could make good buffs (as a doctor).

      WoW has a great mix of legendary drops / legendary crafting. I'm about to make a sweet pair of gloves and a belt as a leatherworker, but the materials are difficult to collect and come from varied sources.

      Yes the drops can be better than the crafts, but not game-breakingly so, so you're not left out in the cold if you buy all your stuff from player crafters.

      And unlike SWG, you don't sacrifice combat to be crafter. I'm a leatherworker/skinner so as I kill creatures I can skin them to get materials for my leatherworking.

      WoW's level requirements and soul-binding of magical items (once you wear 'em nobody else can) helps keep the lower end from flooding. Ask anyone in SWG and they'll tell you that anything below master crafting professions are simply not viable. A master can make everything you can make, in bulk, and better, due to higher experimentation. And even as master, you have a lot of work to do to keep up.

    13. Re:Seems familiar by miu · · Score: 1
      I played SWG off and on for about 15 months and saw the whole spectrum of drop rates for loot - from the nearly nonexistent rate at launch (save for tons of broken skill tapes) to the 'every gdk drops 3+ scales' to the 'log on real fast at 5am and solo Nyax and get something decent once a week'. It seems like loot has been increasing in importance from launch and the change to the system is important, but far too late to save the game.

      (In defense of Koster I think the situation created by jedi is a total vindication of his 'ignore what the players claim they want' remark that attracts so much hate.)

      I really like what I'm hearing about most aspects of WoW, and I'm going to give it a try once they start selling it again.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    14. Re:Seems familiar by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

      I really like what I'm hearing about most aspects of WoW, and I'm going to give it a try once they start selling it again.

      It's available at ebgames.com

  2. Overheard by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1

    "Greifers always blast meesa ears!"

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  3. weapons and decay by w1mp · · Score: 0

    hopefully the anti-decay kits dont all get applied to the galaxies best dot weapons.

    1. Re:weapons and decay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's where the -1 to 3000 charges thing comes in.

  4. Bad design decisions by servognome · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Shouldn't these issues have been caught during the design aspect of the game. Some of these things are so stupid, it shouldn't have taken a year and a half after launch to fix.
    - Separate special action costs from damage - no more dying from using your special actions!
    - Tough NPCs and creatures will require groups to take them down.
    - Counter-move and Recovery effects - You now have ways to recover from attacks - no more one sided combat!

    --
    D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    1. Re:Bad design decisions by w1mp · · Score: 0

      they were thought through, somewhat. The game, and how people play it, have evolved, and they are working to keep a balance, so there is not so great a rift between veterans and newbs. Now if they would just instance the dungeons and caves, to do away with loot campers, I would be happy!

    2. Re:Bad design decisions by Crash+Culligan · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Shouldn't these issues have been caught during the design aspect of the game. Some of these things are so stupid, it shouldn't have taken a year and a half after launch to fix.

      Maybe, but I've worked around software quality control people. I've seen plenty of times when a bug has been found, they guess its likelihood or its impact wrong ("Even if someone does find it, it won't do much damage."), and then mere days after the release scramble to come up with a rational plan to correct or patch what is now a gaping breach in their business plan gushing money.

      These things especially happen when working with complex software (increasing the likelihood of trouble), software which a lot of people come into contact with quickly (increasing the likelihood of discovery/occurrence), and concepts belonging to young, "immature" industries (increasing the likelihood of management guessing wrong about how bad they're gonna screw the pooch and how little the pooch is gonna enjoy it).

      The MMORPG industry is the trifecta, man.

      --
      You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
    3. Re:Bad design decisions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The problem was the people designing SWG envisioned creating a "world" the way they wanted it, rather than the way the customers wanted it... oops. The forgot they were making a game, not a world.... call it the wanna-be-god syndrome...

      Most of the developers ideas were indeed idiotic. They also focused their energies in the wrong areas. They are now essentially completely redeveloping the game since their original designs have been proven to be flawed and unpopular. The subscriber base of SWG is about 1/20th of what it should/could have been.... And with WOW out they won't ever recover from that.

    4. Re:Bad design decisions by miu · · Score: 1
      I don't think the majority of these are balance issues or tweaks, they are missing or mis-designed features. Some of these changes have been promised 'soon' since September 2003 and a GCW with an actual effect on the game world was promised at launch.

      As far as the rift between vets and newbs - with players leaving in droves I'm sure that any newb worth anything will be snapped up by a guild and shown the ropes.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    5. Re:Bad design decisions by servognome · · Score: 1

      I agree there are bugs that aren't properly risk assessed, but these are game designs. It's not that the program was acting in a way that was undesired, these are intentional designs that were bad.
      One of the designers really needed to step up and say the HAM system sucked. You shoot somebody with a rifle and it causes "Mind damage" (so in starwars apparently rifles give you a bad headache, they don't actually injure your health). What's worse you take the same sort of damage when you use a special attack.
      Talk about a clunky unintuitive system.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    6. Re:Bad design decisions by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

      "One of the designers really needed to step up and say the HAM system sucked."

      Yes yes yes! And when buffs came along that made your secondary stats so strong that special moves cost nothing, you could spam them forever and be a godly fighter.

      There were literally lines in major cities for people waiting to get buffed by master doctors.

      I can remember before I knew about buffs how challenging and fun fighting was. Things were fairly decently balanced. Then I got buffed once, and kind of felt like it was cheating - I had 3x the health, could spam special moves, and regenerated very quickly - I never died.

      This problem was kind of caused by the fact that other than buffs, your stats never changed. In every other game, as you level up or get stronger, you got a little more life and strength, so you could handle bigger monsters.

      But in SWG you could create a brand new character, equip the best armor in teh game, get buffed, and withstand almost anything. After a little training so you could cause more damage, you were up with the pros.

  5. Handly Copy/Paste for MMORPG Threads by docvego · · Score: 0, Troll

    Here is a list of everything you need to paste into slashdot's future MMORPG threads.

    If this is a new game:
    "They Better fix this problem or I'm going to sue!"

    If the game has been out for while and is now fixed:
    "Why hasn't this already been fixed"

    Remember, as an MMORPG consumer it is your job to always be upset and post everywhere how much your MMORPG sucks, it helps drive innovation!

    --
    DocVego
    fngeeks.net
    1. Re:Handly Copy/Paste for MMORPG Threads by Holdstrong · · Score: 1
      ***Remember, as an MMORPG consumer it is your job to always be upset and post everywhere how much your MMORPG sucks, it helps drive innovation! ****


      I would have agreed with you... until I played WoW. I have VERY few complaints about this game, and the ones I do are all perihperal and aesthetic in nature.

      SWG on the other hand, was just about the most borked game I have ever played. 12 months into it and you still couldnt sit on the floor without sliding across the room ala some bad Poltergeist re-enactment. The looting (lack of), the soloing everything in the game, the holo grind.... everything about that game - EVERYTHING - save the fact that it took place in a Galaxy far far away was just horribly designed.

    2. Re:Handly Copy/Paste for MMORPG Threads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that was fixed

    3. Re:Handly Copy/Paste for MMORPG Threads by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      I would have agreed with you... until I played WoW. I have VERY few complaints about this game, and the ones I do are all perihperal and aesthetic in nature.

      I don't usually call uptime an aesthetic issue.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    4. Re:Handly Copy/Paste for MMORPG Threads by Maserati · · Score: 1

      Anyone wanting to start a Horde character and get into a guild is welcome to message Khalgrim on Bonechewer. We're at the low end of the population scale, so we only have problems when backend systems go down. Or the authentication server, but that's not a Realm issue.

      Lot's of room for more folks on Bonechewer, we very rarely get into even yellow latency. I also play on a medium pop server sometimes (Shadow Moon) and that one is usually in yellow and almost always a little (but noticeably) laggy.

      The low population servers are fine people, just fine. This is where the server infrastructure works as indented (modulo the backend issues). When I signed up on day one there were already servers showing High population. C'mon guys, they don't code 'em red for nothing.

      Ok, nobody's gonna move servers unless they can take their character with them. But I'm tired of people (and I'm sorry if I sound like I'm picking on Macgrrl, it was just time to rant) complaining about load related servers when the signs where there on Day One.

      --
      Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
    5. Re:Handly Copy/Paste for MMORPG Threads by Holdstrong · · Score: 1
      I've had zero uptime complaints with WoW. I can not remember a time when I wanted to play and it was unavailable for an extended period of time.

      This is most likely a product of luck, the server I am on, and the time I play.... but in the first 6 months of SWG, I had plenty of uptime complaints. None with WoW

      Fortunately for me, all of my issues with the game are minor and almost always surface issues.

  6. Desperate times call for desperate measures by mabu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I hadn't logged in to SWG in many months. I let my house and factories rot after I got frustrated because I'd worked so hard to craft unique and high quality items, and couldn't sell any of them, and many times there were bugs with the vending systems that made matters worse. On top of that, I was generally frustrated with the design of the skill point system. It's all too easy to max-out points and then have nowhere to go, and this can be especially bad if you're pursuing a dicipline that isn't in high demand. All that work for nothing.

    I recently logged back into the game to check things out. It was a ghost town. No wonder they're scrambling to fix things. Based on the absence of players in game, I'd say SWG is hemmoraging revenue at this point. They need to do something fast to keep the game from sliding into the void.

    I always felt that SWG had potential, but the implementation of this universe is profoundly flawed. This MMORPG suffers from many of the same ailments the worst MMORPGs have, specifically an advancement system that becomes redundant and boring very quickly, high end gameplay that becomes tedious and time-consuming to organize if it's even remotely interesting, a market system which is terminally broken, and a universe that is so heavily based on preset corporate or mythological constructs that exploration isn't as exciting because you know what to expect, and last but by no means least, a tremendous disparity between new and veteran players that serves to intimidate new players and frustrate old ones.

  7. Despite the changes... by TheOnlyJuztyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... Star Wars Galaxies is still just a bunch of boring planets with boring professions and no real reason to advance at all. I played the game for nine months of beta and three months of retail and all I really got was twelve months older. I've been following it for ages and I'm still not sure what the real purpose of the game is. I know MMORPGs are suppose to be less linear then they're single player counterparts, but SWG takes it to the extreme. They plop you down in an empty, boring, EMPTY landscape and say "Go!" and then expect you to have fun.

    Faction bases? They're exactly the same as before except some of them will have defenders! Looting changes? What loot? Crap you sell at vendor for 5 credits in a world where a new shirt will cost you 1000? PvP changes? Isn't that how covert and overt factions worked before, just without the ability to accidentally become overt? Veteran Rewards? .. okay, I can't really complain about free stuff. But geez, none of this stuff really excites me, and I was hardcore into Star Wars Galaxies before beta.

    If it weren't for the Star Wars licence, I don't think SWG ever would have made it out of the starting gate. It's just not a fun game.

    Now, World of Warcraft... Blizzard did it right.

    1. Re:Despite the changes... by portwojc · · Score: 1

      Now, World of Warcraft... Blizzard did it right.

      Well except in character creation. One word "boring". SWG raised the bar very high and this is where WoW falls flat on it's face. Very little differences between characters of the same race. It reminded me of those free to play MMORPGs that have been slowly rising up. I expect that from them not from Blizzard.

      I was at a convention once and found that a guild mate from SWG was there. Over the phone we decided which area to meet in. Got there and walked right up to him with 50 people standing around cause he looked like his toon. Now that is dome serious design options.

    2. Re:Despite the changes... by TheOnlyJuztyn · · Score: 1

      Well except in character creation. One word "boring".

      I partially agree. Yes, the options in WoW are limited. But then you have to think about the processor power required to morph some guy's nose 1 pixel larger and multiply that by 100 guys all standing in the same area. What a waste of my precious processor cycles. Besides, there's an actual GAME to play in WoW, so you're never really standing around staring at eachother's avatars for hours on end. In SWG's favour it's a cool feature, yeah, but so what? Doesn't affect the gameplay, or really even the game experience, at all.

  8. My Grief with SWG by Krizhek · · Score: 4, Informative

    Was that I constantly felt like I had to log on
    -I needed to get on to check my factory
    -I have to go one and check to see which of my items were sold
    -Have I collected my resources from my farms?

    Then a shared multi-guild base was razed by a bunch of 12 year olds when no one else was on.
    I ended up quitting since it was affecting my relationship with my wife.
    Then right after I had quit, the game ,the weight of the world felt like it was gone.

    1. Re:My Grief with SWG by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Then right after I had quit, the game ,the weight of the world felt like it was gone.

      I've had that happen in MMOGs twice. The first time was when I quit the EQ Guide Program in disgust at what SOE was starting to do to it back in 2000. The second time was when retired as an officer of my EQ guild, quit playing EQ altogether, and went to WoW.

      When I played SWG when it first went live, I never got very far in the game, but the pressures to check on crap like you mentioned were still already very strong, which is a big reason why I didn't stick with it.

      Do I still play online a lot? Sure, sometimes. But the difference is that I'm no longer mixing responsibilities in with my play time, and so I never *have* to log in anymore.

    2. Re:My Grief with SWG by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

      WoW's nice because there's no penalty for not playing for a while - in fact, you get an XP bonus for "resting" that helps you to catch up a bit when you do return.

      The only reason you come back to play WoW is because it's fun, not because if you don't it could hurt your experience later on.

  9. Sony had a slam dunk by HycoWhit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How could Sony mess up SWG as badly as they did? Out of the gate SWG was supposed to be the most successful MMOG ever. To bad the designers forgot to make the game fun! The only thing SWG has going for it is the Star Wars license. SOE has always ignored their player community when it mattered. At least now SOE doesn't have to the throngs of players screaming SWG isn't fun--they have all moved to World of Warcraft.

  10. HAHA SONY by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    Looks like Sony finally realized that you can't just limp on by with a strong franchise as your crutch. Thanks to WoW, MMORPGs now need to compete on gameplay, and aside from Skinner Box models for their games, Sony doesn't know jack about that.

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  11. High Pop vs Low Pop servers by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

    I would have to admit that my choice of server was based entirely on what server my friends were playing on as they had been playing for a month or longer before we bought copies of the game. It's a fairly high pop server (Proudmoore) but it's also a server with a lot of Aussies on it, so there are generally people around who understand when I say it's bedtime - for us it really is and I really have to go.

    It does mean that I rarely adventure during in game daytime, it's normally the few hours before dawn in game. So I haven't seen many of the zones by day yet. And when you have a problem, GMs never seem to be around - I get a response by mail when I next log in.

    If they moved our whole guild to another server, it might be OK, but part of playing in a multi-player game is being able to play with your friends if you want to - and if they're all on a given server, chances are you'll play on that server too. The more people you talk to who want to play too, the more people there'll be on your server - it's a vicious circle, but it's happening.

    --
    Sara
    Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World