BitTorrent Community After SuprNova Shutdown

Sure, it made an impact. by Seumas · 2005-02-04 17:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

Instead of everyone focusing on SuprNova, people have found new places that they otherwise never would have bothered with. There are a number of smaller quality sites out there now. Most of them seem to be hosted in Sweden, Netherlands, Brazil, Russia and elsewhere.

Re:Sure, it made an impact. by Inda · 2005-02-04 20:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'll say it then because no one seems to have the bottle around here.

SuprNova was nothing special. It was not the best thing since sliced bread. It was a below-par site.

There, said it.

SuprNova was the Kazaa of websites. It was full of broken trackers, passworded files, membership only trackers and your crappy re-encodes. People from other sites used it to advertise their own trackers; stick a few torrents up for a week and watch the traffic flow to your site. SuprNova was a site that was too busy and only served the average masses who wanted The Incredibles in Real video format.

That was my opinion of SuprNova.

--
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Re:Sure, it made an impact. by Stanza · 2005-02-05 04:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

I respectfully disagree.

I do agree with other comments, the web page was crappy, javascript and frames and popups and crap, but not your comments. Also others did use them as advertisement for thier own trakers.

But, Suprnova required no logins, I almost never found passworded files, almost everything I found there worked without difficulties. Did I mention no logins? That's why I used them.

Combine that with them being one of the more popular sites, that meant they were more likely to have the wierd things to look for, and since more people downloaded from there, there was a less chance of files with no one to download from.

Re:first by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-04 17:55 · Score: 1, Insightful

Can someone please explain what it is about movie and music piracy that makes it ok to call them "bittorrent communities" or "filesharing collaborations" or homes for "movie enthusiasts", but when it comes to software piracy they're "gangs" and "asian swindlers" and "software theft"

It's fucking illegal, people. Who cares how this illegal piracy "community" is affected?

SUPPLY AND DEMAND by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-04 17:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

Supply and demand, dammit. People just never understand this. The laws of capitalism don't refer to things that are necessary to create a capitalist economy, or things that are a good idea. They are natural laws. You can't escape them. There is no way out of the iron cage.

And the laws of supply and demand don't go away just because you try to put laws in their path. You barely even slow them down. The old Soviet Union found that out when black markets sprung up to provide the things the Soviet Union's system couldn't. And the ??AAs of America, much as they try to ignore it, are currently finding that out with the things that are springing up to provide the copyright cartels won't.

Re:SUPPLY AND DEMAND by Spy+Handler · 2005-02-04 19:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

Exactly right.
The heroin market is a perfect example of this, and lately methamphetamines. Recently there was a prominent article in one of the major papers (either LA or NY Times I think) about the growing Meth underground economy. In fact it's gotten so bad, several of the Midwest states are in the process of enacting laws to limit over-the-counter allergy pill sales and have drugstore clerks record the identity of purchasers. We're talking about Nyquil and Tylenol Cold here, pretty innocuous stuff. But they contain ingredients that Meth labs use to distill into methemphatamines.
This is a perfect example of the natural law of supply and demand, like the parent post said. They can pass all the laws in the world, but as long as the demand is there (and the demand for Meth is skyrocketing), there WILL be a supply. I totally understand and agree with this.
But guess what, when the gov't throws its hands up and says, "We give up! We can't control it" and leaves the forces of supply and demand to settle into their own natural accord, you end up with a situation that is less than ideal. China in late 19th century to 1945 was pretty much in this state of just letting the opium supply and demand run its course. And it did. I don't know what the exact numbers are but something like an overwhelming majority of adult male population in China was addicted to opium and smoking it on a daily basis. Graciously supplied by Great Britain. (oh yeah there was a pretty funny footage in "Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story" of a China opium house from the 30's.)
Needless to say, China was not a very healthy society or a pleasant place to live during this era. The opium problem only got under control with the incoming Communist government - basically they just shot and killed anyone caught possessing opium, often on the spot. That reduced the demand pretty quick.
Okay I know you're gonna say, "There's a big difference between illegal Meth and downloading some XviD moviez". Yes, there are differences. Watching downloaded moviez doesn't destroy your nervous system and gradually turn you into a psychotic dope fiend that ends in your early demise. But just for illustration, let me apply the same principle and see where it might end.
So let's say the xxAA stops suing downloaders and the gov't decides copyright laws are unenforceable - supply and demand, you know. Courts refuse to hear copyright infringement suits. People are completely free to download any movie, book or music, burn to a disc and sell it on the street corner, with complete confidence that nothing bad will ever come of it. What's gonna happen? Well, it's gonna destroy the movie industry in America. Movies will still get made, but they will be low budget indie-type movies made by artists for art's sake. And they will, 99% of them, suck donkey dick. I've seen low budget films, and they are just BAD. Good movies require millions of dollars to make. Name the last 10 really good movies you saw. Or 20, or 50. How many were low budget (something you or I could make) and how many had budget in the tens of millions?
Books are a little different because one guy with no budget can turn up a masterpiece. But it's still safe to say that the number of quality titles coming out each year will go down in a copyright-free society, because the percentage of authors who write to make a living will cease writing when the income is gone.
Okay I didn't want this reply to be so damn long, so I'll just end here with this: take a look at the periods and societies in history that had (or still has) no concept of intellectual property, and those that did (or still do). Determine which is more conducive to the advancement of art, literature and entertainment.
Re:SUPPLY AND DEMAND by hadronzoo · 2005-02-04 20:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Economics also says that marginal cost of production equals price in the long run. If the marginal cost to produce (i.e. copy) media is only the cost of moving bits, the price will tend towards zero.

Any attempt to artificially prop-up prices will be defeated by the black market (ergo BitTorrent).
Re:SUPPLY AND DEMAND by freemacmini · 2005-02-04 21:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

Maybe the demand is not manufactured and not natural. This is especially true in movies where demand is created by marketing before the product is even known by anybody.

Anyway in the end it's all about entertainment. If nobody made movies people would entertain themselves in other ways. Maybe theater would make a come back, maybe people would read more, maybe they would just go out in the park and play more.

People have found ways to amuse themselves for thousands of years without movies and they would do it again if movies went away.

BTW I don't believe movies would go away. They would be made cheaper and without paying ben affleck 20 million dollars.

--
Get a free Mac Mini
Re:SUPPLY AND DEMAND by Quattro+Vezina · 2005-02-04 21:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

You don't have to worry about that: demand isn't just the amount of desire to buy something. In order for it to be called demand, the demanders have to have the resources to buy it.

--
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
Re:SUPPLY AND DEMAND by way2trivial · 2005-02-05 02:02 · Score: 1, Insightful

so cocaine, which is kinda cheap to produce-

has it's prices artificially propped up by the black market?

--
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random

Dupe by PIPBoy3000 · 2005-02-04 17:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

Perhaps we could work on the centralization of articles on Slashdot as well.

Re:first by Saven+Marek · 2005-02-04 18:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

> It's fucking illegal, people. Who cares how this illegal piracy
> "community" is affected

Well if you think about it you'll see there are many television shows that aren't shown in my country so I want to watch them. Also, many movies shown overseas that are not released in my country immediately

Are you saying I do not have a right to watch these? or follow them with my friends who might get them first? I will have to wait and wait months maybe a year to see them, by the time spoilers are posted everywhere? It should be illegal that they are forcing us to pirate (no I won't say theft!) these videos just to keep up with what other people are able to see. The internet is the great equalizer.

Best mac community on the web

BitTorrent was never designed for Piracy. by ABeowulfCluster · 2005-02-04 18:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

Bittorrent was designed to just host large files to a large number of people using a distributed system. It's the 'large number of people' thing which makes it bad for illegal file swapping. If 100 file sharers can find illegal content easily, then so can the copyright holders of the illegally copied content. If they want *privacy* with their fileswapping, then fileswappers should put a proxy function into a separate 'file swapper' client to allow you do download 'thru' another computer which would make tracking down the original user impossible... but a proxy function just increases the total sum of bandwidth used, which isn't what Bittorrent was designed to do.

Re:Finding things is harder... by PKPerson · 2005-02-04 18:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

the MPAA will NEVER completly shut down Bittorent, or p2p in general. 2 things will happen, first, other sitea will emerge, and second a modification of the bittorrent protocol will allow searching without relying on websites.
BTW:
isoHunt ownz
Shareaza is the best client for windows ever, though I wish there was a port to linux. One last thing, can anyone suggest a good (full-featured)Client for linux?

Re:The world will continue to spin by ravenspear · 2005-02-04 18:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

The old series... not this new crud on Sci-Fi

As someone who has seen both, I am sure you are in the minority with this opinion. The production quality of the new BSG series is top notch, certainly at least as good as the original, if not better.

Re:Finding things is harder... by sirReal.83. · 2005-02-04 18:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

Exeem will be a failure. By keeping the source locked up and Windows-biased, you alienate that very segment of users whose OSes are stable enough to actually stay running for more than 24 hours at a time.

Simple solution - create .torrent list of servers by bergeron76 · 2005-02-04 18:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

Why not create a .torrent file that contains a list of servers. Have a few people (that are held in high-esteem in the community) moderate it and circulate it. Other people could be added as moderators as they proved their committment to promoting the torrents.

It's a very socialism-meets-meritocracy (aka (Bergeronian) idealogy, but it would certainly work.

--
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.

Re:Finding things is harder... by Tezkah · 2005-02-04 18:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

Regardless of the troll against Windows in the parent, he's right. Exceem is a failure. They not only made it closed source, but they made it spyware, a la Kazaa. Having it on Linux with the adware still inside would *not* have made it an attractive alternative.

It also connects to a centralized server, which really defeats the point of a decentralized tracker.

---
Buy "Bob"

Yes by YrWrstNtmr · 2005-02-04 19:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

So has the shutdown of centralized SuprNova had any impact?

Judging by many of the replies in here, it has had an impact. Just not a negative impact, as the article implies.

Re:full text by laughingcoyote · 2005-02-04 20:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

My apologies, troll, but bittorrent sites are every bit a "community". I use one quite frequently, and indeed would continue to even if it weren't for its...erm...content. (Sure I'll tell you where the site is, I'd love to see it go the way of suprnova, and you'd have to register to see for yourself anyway.)

The users there know each other well, have helped each other with everything from technical problems to real-life crises, and of course discuss torrents and their content. To say that this doesn't constitute a "community" is ridiculous.

And yes, contrary to popular belief, many torrent users DO purchase what they download. But since effectively NO stores will allow you to return open DVD's or software, and movie theatres certainly will not refund your money if the movie sucks, it's generally wise to "try before you buy". (Yes, of course, there are those who never do buy...chances are, those never would have in the first place.)

Where do we draw the line? Is it illegal to loan a friend a movie? Invite the friend over to watch it? Give a book to someone after we're done reading it? All of these things cut into the creator's potential profits. To me, the ethical line (and yes, I know the legal one is in a different place) is here: Did you make money off someone else's work? If yes, you have done something unethical. If no, you have shared, and that's all.

For you to say that making a copy of something equates to stealing it is dumb. If I figure out how to build a computer by studying a Dell, am I "stealing" from Dell by buying components and doing it myself next time? Or doing the same for a friend? Your argument would indicate the answer is yes.

--
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.

Re:first by gwoodrow · 2005-02-04 20:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm with you on this one. Just like the parent's completely nonsensical statement "the fact that it's illegal is completely irrelevant," chronic pirates do tend to be hypocrites. Of course the fact that it's illegal is relevant. That's the whole reason the fight is going on.

I hate that all the mods are sympathetic to the so called "fight" as well. Why is it that those of us who are against piracy are considered flamers and trolls? That's pathetic.

Yeah, I hate the fact that legal music downloads have the restrictive DRM on it. So I don't buy music online - I buy used CDs and just rip'em onto my computer.

Aw - you can't see a TV show in your area? Have to wait a whole extra month to see that movie you wanna see? Tough shit - that still doesn't make it yours. It's someone else's property and they can distribute it however they please.

I've been saving up for a new car - but my childish impatience doesn't give me the right to come steal yours in the meantime.

I've downloaded quite a few songs illegally in my day, but I have no illusions that what I'm doing is "the right thing." I know it's illegal and I'm not proud of it. I don't think I mind people downloading stuff illegally so much as I mind the people trying to make excuses for it. There is no excuse - what you're doing is immoral and dishonest. We're stealing - not leading a revolution. Get over yourself, folks.

Now go ahead and mod this post down - I know most of my fellow pirates don't want to hear it anyway. See no evil, do no evil - or at least not admit to it.

Re:first by Ape_the_Dog · 2005-02-04 21:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

You have a *right* to see them? Where does this right come from? Do children in the third world have a right to see these movies as well, then? Should we ship them television sets with DVD's so they can exercise their RIGHT to watch seinfeld - the right they've been denied all this time?

You don't have a right to any of this. You like to *think* you do, because that's how you've been justifying your piracy all this time. You're wrong.

I'm the first person to admit that I also download episodes of shows I want to see. I'm not innocent. I sure as hell won't allow you to claim you are.

Let's not be hypocrites here. Piracy happens for selfish reasons. Not because some people can't watch some shows, not because some people want to 'stick it to the music industry', not any of this. Selfish reasons! Admit it, or forever face my contempt.

Gee, here's a counterexample, thanks by Xtifr · 2005-02-04 23:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'll identify the legal live music tracker at Etree for ya. Sure, some of the bands (a little over 800 of 'em) have their music available at The Internet Archive, but the Archive requires explicit permission from the bands to host their material there. A lot of bands that allow taping/trading haven't (for whatever reason) opted in to the Archive. So the Etree site has tons of taper-friendly bands like They Might Be Giants, Primus/Les Claypool, Parliament/Funkadelic, Los Lobos, and GWAR, who aren't on the Archive, but who still allow (some of) their music to be traded.

I don't know why you say, "free software doesn't count." That seems pretty silly. Free software most certainly does count. Aside from updates to my Debian machines, I get most of my free software by BT. But there's probably more legal music trading going on on the Etree site every day than there is BT traffic in free software on the entire Internet in a month. So the argument is moot.

The point of BT is not to give you the fastest possible download. Its primary benefits are for the people offering files, who can offer those files to a lot more people than they would be able to if they had to use ftp/http. Those fast ftp/http sites you like? They're not fast because they use ftp/http. They're fast because they pay huge amounts of money for huge, fast pipes. I guarantee, if the guy offering the torrent that you're getting at 200kbps were using ftp or http, you'd be seeing speeds more like 2kbps.

But hey, if you don't like it, don't use it. Nobody's twisting your arm.

Rock is dead by hozozco · 2005-02-05 00:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

It has been said that 'rock is dead' and many people predicted the demise of radio, cinema and TV. No, I don't think bittorrent will last as long as they have, but it's far from dead. When it does die it won't be missed - another P2P protocol will take it's place. In the meantime, leech away my friends - but give back what you take.

Thanks. Thanks a lot. by superultra · 2005-02-05 02:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

In unreleated, more recent news, Del.icio.us just received a cease and desist letter from the MPAA. The MPAA told reporters, "All people had to do was look at del.icio.us most popular and they'd see BitTorrent sites every couple days, as people uncovered new places to find the files they were looking for."

Re:first by mankey+wanker · 2005-02-05 07:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

"Besides, the whole "I pirate to get back at them," argument is silly."

Actually, it's not. It's a band-aid solution for a band-aid kind of world and legal system. IP law is wildly out of control because they are deep pocketed interests greasing the legislators and practically no one to defend the commons against that kind of corruption.

What you are seeing is perfectly reasonable disrespect for "the law" because laws aren't really worth anything until we all generally agree to them - and many of us don't agree any more.

Anyway, laws about IP rights are pretty absurd if you ask me - in the main they serve no one but the protected few. They are a creation of law, a completely unnatural arrangement to benefit creators of useful things. Had the laws remained reasonable people wouldn't be so inclined to flout the law. After the most recent extensions of copyright (i.e. sucking Disney corp cock) most people well understood that IP laws had become completely insane.

Patent law now threatens the same thing. One cannot turn around without considering whose fucking "idea" one may be treading upon.

To be honest, that's a not a world I want to live in, but live in it I do. I have my own fixes for things that bother me.

For the record, I consider myself a deeply moral person. I also refuse to equate morality with what may or may not be "against the law" - laws change all the time to suit the needs of the few, and basically I don't give a shit any longer. We live under the "Golden Rule" where those that have the gold make the rules. It's an old joke, and its funny because its sadly so true.

What you are really worried about is that you are used to a society where the shots are called from the top down. Well, you might have to get used to a society where the street morality you so fear is agreed upon from the bottom up. Because the street, my friend, has its own uses for things.

Re:first by dmarx · 2005-02-05 08:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yeah, I hate the fact that legal music downloads have the restrictive DRM on it. So I don't buy music online - I buy used CDs and just rip'em onto my computer.

The RIAA is putting software onto CDs that prevents them from being ripped. What will you when every CD has this?

Aw - you can't see a TV show in your area? Have to wait a whole extra month to see that movie you wanna see? Tough shit - that still doesn't make it yours. It's someone else's property and they can distribute it however they please.

If it's not being sold, no sales are being lost by it being downloaded, so how is downloading it bad?

I've been saving up for a new car - but my childish impatience doesn't give me the right to come steal yours in the meantime.

No, you can't deprive me of the use of my car-which is the traditional definition of steeling, but if you want to make a copy of my car, in such a manner that I can still know my car and not even know that the car is being copied, then go right ahead.

--
"Do I dare disturb the universe?"

bittorrent - cool technology, smarmy user base by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-05 08:52 · Score: 1, Insightful

So why is that we repeatedly see cool technologies like Bittorrent coming under the thumb of industry grpoups like the RIAA and the MPAA. Well, duh! It's because a few million bad apples can't help but see the technology as a way to illegally obtain intellectual property that they have no right too. And then, like the high school student who just managed to scam a copy of the exam before it was given, they can't help but brag about it on forums like this. Do you guys really think that Slashdot is some form of secure communication? I don't work for the MPAA but I could... the point I'm trying to make is that if you were saddened that Spernova got shut down then you shouldn't be bragging about how it's replacement is even better. Reminds me of the illegal street racers who, when shut down by the cops utilize their cell phone network to reassemble elsewhere. Unlike you idiots, however, they don't go out of their way to tell the cops where they are headed to next. Bittorrent is really a great technology for distributing large files. It was originally conceived of for totally legal purposes, and there are tracker sites out that contain only public domain files. How can any of you honestly believe that downloading a full length hollywood release before it hits commercial DVD distribution is legal. Thanks for messing up a great technology.

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BitTorrent Community After SuprNova Shutdown

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