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Third-World Sweatshops Producing Virtual Goods
prostoalex writes "MSNBC points to the court cases spawned by virtual worlds. Recently, Tom Loftus notes, a virtual island in one of the MMORPGs sold for $30,000, enough to attract commercial attention. Apparently, some businesses create third-world sweatshops, where low-wage laborers are being paid to play and accumulate enough virtual merchandise, so that an eBay sale of it makes the operation profitable. 'One such business, Blacksnow Interactive, actually sued a virtual world's creator in 2002 for attempting to crack down on the practice. The first of its kind to center on virtual goods, the case was eventually dropped,' MSNBC says." Update: 02/06 18:59 GMT by Z : We ran a story about the sale of the virtual island, and Terra Nova has a lot of commentary on the sale of virtual goods. For comparison, the economic impact of this phenomenon is roughly equal to that of Namibia or Macedonia.
maybe the work itself doesn't seem hard (to you), but the conditions they have to suffer are really sweatshop-like
BBC had a report about it recently, a dozen workers stuffed into a small, dark room with computers and only a sleeping bag may sound LAN party style to us - but we can leave the party anytime, they can't
I think it would depend on the labor conditions.
If it's "Work 8-10 hours a day with a couple of breaks and an hour off for lunch, and a wage that a person can afford to live on (assuming third world country costs, this might be $5/day or so)", then yes, your sarcasm is met.
If it's "work eighteen hours with no breaks, no air conditioning and if you get carpel tunnel that's your own damned fault, and if you miss a quote you miss pay for the day (which might be just enough to buy food at $0.25/day) , and we employ the twelve year olds who's other choice is prostitution so the constant threat of 'perform or die' is hanging over their head 24/7" - then your sarcasm might not be met.
It's all in the scale.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Well, in a MMORPG, a good item (like say, the Sword of Pwning) might be really useful for your character, when your clan is fighting someone else. However, it might take a 10 hr quest to get the Sword of Pwning, and this busy first-worlder has a high paying job, so that can't skip that. So you buy the sword for real cash, because you get enjoyment out of the sword, just like you benefit from your 500Watt sterio that was probably built by some other third-worlder.
Anybody around here selling mod-points? Karma? 4-digit accounts? What is the going price? : )
My bank account is represented by a bunch of 1s and 0s in some database in the sky. There's no real paper behind it. It's virtual. Now, if someone wiped out the 1s to 0s, I'd have grounds to sue.
Value and money doesn't exist in the physical world. It's a contrived social concept that we humans have created. It's an illusion. So if it's "virtual" in the real world, seems perfectly logical that it can be virtual in the virtual world, too.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
It's a "sweatshop" because the working conditions are really bad, and the pay is really low. The work itself is not as arduous as, say, sewing raincoats for 30 hours at a stretch, or soldering 5 thousand LEDs into Christmas light cables before being allowed to clock out. And they can quit, with many people dying to take their jobs when they do. But the physically demanding nature of traditional sweatshops isn't their defining characteristic, or steelmills would all be sweatshops in more than just a colorful description of their atmosphere.
Sweatshop labor is more of a commentary on the rest of the local economy. People don't quit, though they are "free" to, because there's no alternative labor available. That's almost always because there's no capital available to entrepreneurs, no competition among labor buyers, no real value applied to their labor. All of which is usually due to some political repression, a command economy, company towns - all the conditions we had in the US before labor organized in the 20th Century do protect our rights to work in human conditions. Which is why it sounds familiar to Slashdotters slaving away in cubefarms, wishing we could get paid to play games instead of write Java DB reporting systems.
--
make install -not war
People treating imaginary stuff as if it were "real" is a normal thing. Actually, our entire society is based on the fact that people do that.
Consider these simple examples just to get you started:
Laws
Borders
The concept of "owning" things
I can very well imagine a number of reasons why it can be considered sickening to trade everquest characters for that much money. For example you might argue that it is decadent. But the fact that everquest characters are not "real" is nothing special.
You can attach boosters to anything. It just costs more. -
Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 07, @12:26PM
I really just can't understand the morons in online FPSs who go around TKing etc. I've tried talking to them sometimes, asking "why do you do this?" in as nice a way as possible, but of course never got an answer. The idea of playing an MMORPG, where the potential number of morons available to piss me off is so much higher, doesn't appeal to me much.
I have sat and watched someone spend half an hour stacking planes on an aircraft carrier deck so no one could take off (Coral sea,BF1942) before an admin joined and kicked him. What kind of mentality must a person have to waste half an hour doing something incredibly dull and repetitive (enter plane, taxi forwards, exit plane, wait for new plane to spawn, repeat) purely to piss off people he doesn't know who are trying to have fun?
It basically means only servers with admins are worth playing on. I have about five servers in my favourites list that I know have good admins and decent auto-kick settings. I occasionally play on other servers, but I always regret it.
Let me also pre-empt the replies that will say playing a game should be about enjoying the experience and the ride, not a power-trip toward getting an uber character and the ultimate foozle power: I agree. I'd never buy something in an MMORPG. That doesn't mean time doesn't have value and that buyers are necessarily evil.
Some MMORPGs recognize that this is bad for their game and take steps to prevent it. World of Warcraft, as far as I know, will "bind" some items to whoever picks them up. Technical solutions do exist, but as long as the economic conditions described in my first paragraph exist, I expect people will have a power incentive to get around the restrictions.
Yes, it is better for a person to have a shit job than no income, but sweatshop employers are, by definition, mistreating their employees. The goal of fair traders is not to shut down the (say) factory which has sweatshop conditions, but to pressure the employer to raise the factory's working conditions above sweatshop status.
"Sweatshop factory or no factory" is a false dichotomy.
If you truly meant everything you just said, then you also disagree with all labor laws in this country.
If you're outright against all labor laws, I'm sorry, but you are a horribly misguided individual who needs to study history and see how those labor laws changed life. And, if you aren't against labor laws, you really need to revise your position.
It doesn't work both ways.
Actually in many cases sweatshop workers can't leave, at least not until they've worked off exorbident debts owed to the sweatshop operator. Often the debts are accrued by the workers during the process of immigrating to the country they are working in. Think indentured servants here.
Before you ask, no this isn't legal in most (if not all) of the countries where it happens, but it still happens. Often the sweatshop workers are illegal immigrants, may not speak the local language and sure as hell don't know local laws and customs that protect them from this kind of abuse. Since these shops are being run by criminals the penalty for quitting before your debt is paid tends to involve killing the worker and/or their family, not a lawsuit. These kinds of shops are flourishing all over Asia (along with their far more destructive cousins in the sex trade, which prey on the same type of desperation as the sweatshops) and can still be found in the US and Western Europe still.
I'm guessing what you're thinking of as a sweat shop is really just your standard, legal, offshored manufactoring plant in developing countries. These places are for the most part above board and subject to government oversite and yes the workers can quit when they want. But that's why they aren't sweatshops.
As far as these so-called MMPORG sweatshops are concerned, I suspect they more closely resemble offshored factories (or call centers) than actual sweatshops.
"Listen: We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" - Kurt Vonnegut
Is it so much to demand that if you want that kind of service, you pay for it? Everyone likes to bitch about crappy, incomprehsible foreign support and then they go off and buy more $500 Dell crap PCs and $60 routers and everything else from Wal-mart (which they incessantly bitch about too for other reasons).
If you want competent domestic support then either you convince them to work for a third-world wage or you pay their salary. Take your pick.
Where's the signup sheet for this "sweatshop"? I'm sure there's plenty of Slashdot readers that would gleefully sign up
Are you serious? Plenty of relatively affluent people tend their own gardens, too...how many do you think would want to work as farm laborers in some third-world country? Lots of people sew as a hobby...you think many of them want to head off to work in a clothing factory?
When you play these games, you do fun things, like quests, and exploring the world, and figuring out how to take on tougher and tougher monsters (and players for PvP games).
The people farming items and money for sale are not doing that. They are just sitting in one spot, killing easy things over and over and over. That's tedium, no fun.
One of the biggest criticisms of Everquest, and one of the things that most games since EQ1 have tried to fix, was that sometimes you'd have to do just that when playing. For example, to get a rare high level monster to spawn, you might have to kill placeholdes, which were low level and no challenge, for hours or even days. or to get faction to go someplace, you might have to kill 2000 trivial monsters. People hated doing this.
I work in Hangzhou on behalf of a small manufacturing outsourcing company. Conditions for workers here in China are much better now than in the past, but there are still problems. Perhaps one of the biggest hardships for them is that most buildings in Hangzhou are not heated in winter, and it gets fairly cold here, dropping below freezing outside several times per month. Often even areas where the white collar workers are located have no heat, and sometimes I think they have it the worst, because at least the unskilled laborers are constantly moving instead of sitting motionless at a computer.
The point is, in a developing country some hardships can not be avoided. Unfortunately China's thirst for electricity is much more than can be supplied, thus it is not feasible to heat most buildings here in the south during winter. As it is, there are frequent scheduled blackouts in many areas to solve the problem that there is not enough electricity to go around. But they can't just all stop work and wait for spring. Sometimes I think people don't realize this when they get mad about working conditions in developing countries. Yes conditions are less than ideal in China, but they are improving, and it isn't possible for everyone to just quit working and wait for conditions to become like they are in the West. Change has to happen gradually and economic growth is the only way that it is going to happen at all.
Manufacture in China
Prove it. The only proven vote fraud is being done by Democrats (remember "Votes for Cigarettes 2000" for homeless people and tire slashing by Democrat-paid thugs in 2004 in Wisconsin?).
Let's not even talk about Catherine Harris, who outright stole the election by selectively obeying the intent of the law.
Prove it. (And its spelled "Katherine". Try to keep up.)
This is now a one party dictatorship, using the law as window dressing to get anything it wants and destroy whomever it hates.
Prove it.
accepted by the Katie Courics of the news media almost immediately.
You honestly believe that Katie "... they haven't been able to confirm reports [Saddam] was taken to Tikrit, and then Mosul, and then hopefully Syria" Couric is right wing? ROFL!!!!
Snip remainder of Michael Moore-inspired paranoia. That by the way would be the corpulent propagandist Michael Moore:
- Who sends his own daughter to private school .
- Who unsuccessfully pressured the writing staff of his 'TV Nation' not to join the Writer's Guild.
- Whose bodyguard got arrested for carrying an unlicensed firearm at JFK airport. A FIREARM? For the writer/author of "Bowling for Columbine"? No more tinfoil for you - you've obviously ODed on the stuff.
- Whose own hometown high school refuses to induct him into its Hall of Fame.
YOU grow up and stop whining. Bush won, Kerry lost. Get over it.
No mod points, no meta-moderating/Firehose/all the other free work Slashdot wants me to do.
A lot of people in this topic seem to be thinking that these people are being paid to have fun in a videogame like so many Americans do on a nightly basis.
That is not true.
These people are being paid to, in videogame speek, "pharm" items and money. To "pharm" something is to mindlessly acquire the item(s) at the expense of any other activity (IE: fun). For example, in World of Warcraft to "pharm" gold (currency) at level 60 for most of these workers means staying in one zone and killing the same type of enemy ("mob") for hours upon hours. Imagine killing the exact same bird in a game for literally 8 hours.
Find bird.
Kill bird.
Loot bird.
Repeat for six hours.
These people are not grouping, questing, raiding, interacting with other players, or doing any of the other activities that make these games fun. They are doing the digital equivalent of screwing bolt #3572 into a car chassis on an assembly line.
Also, beyond that, I have so far seen no mention of the damage these currency sellers do to in-game economies. These companies obliterate game economies with their actions.
For example, Bob wants Super-Item-of-Monster-Slaying, but Super-Item-of-Monster-Slaying costs 5000 gold, and Bob only has 10 gold. So, Bob buys 10,000 gold online. Now Bob is super-rich by in-game standards and decides that he wants Super-Item-of-Monster-Slaying *right now*. So, what does bob do? He offers 10,000 gold to the first person he sees with the item just because he can. The seller, along with every else, realizes he can start selling Super-Item-of-Monster-Slaying for twice the previous price and people will still pay for it.
This begins a downward spiral for the server's economy. People cannot pay the newly doubled price, so some of them pay real money for game money and pay even MORE. The price for goods rapidly increases, and the value of the currency plummets. In the end, players who want to buy anything in-game are forced to pay for fake cash or spend their own hours pharming the money for the horrifically overpriced goods.
Think this is too extreme and won't happen? Check out the Bazaar in Everquest 1; it already has happened.