The NeXT-Best Thing: GNUSTEP 0.9.4 Live CD

roard writes "Following the NeXT tradition with mixed case, GNUSTEP is a live CD/distribution while GNUstep is an implementation of the OpenStep API. GNUSTEP is based on Morphix, and uses the GNUstep libraries and GNUstep-based applications to provide a NeXTSTEP-like environment that people can easily test and use. This new 0.9.4 release comes 8 months since the precedent 0.5 release, and brings a lot of new GNUstep applications with it, as well as an upgrade of the GNUstep libraries and the development tools. In other news, a small demonstration of GNUstep development tools is available in Flash or divx. The old dream of having a GNU OS with Hurd and an OpenStep implementation doesn't seems that far now ;)"

Comments

wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW?

[JessLeah]

i'Ve aLWaYs wOndEReD.

Re:wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW?

[BlueGecko]

NeXT has that capitalization because the original NeXT logo had that capitalization. It had that capitalization because the artist wanted to emphasize several adjectives that started with e (I don't remember them at this point, but they were words such as excellent, extendable, educational, and so on) so he made the e lowercase.

NEXTSTEP the operating system is and always has been all caps. OPENSTEP the operating system has also always been all caps. OpenStep the API specification is capitalized in camel case, and I'm not going to touch NeXT's computers, because I always get them wrong.

GNU's not Unix - but it is, apparently, Mac OS X

[1010011010]

Microkernel, unix-like userspace, Nextstep-based application development?

Right here.

Re:Hurd?

[Pflipp]

Like Hurd was the perceived GNU kernel, GNUstep was the perceived GNU GUI.

Re:Hurd?

[TheRaven64]

GNUstep, like HURD, is a GNU project that has been going on for ages (it predates KDE and GNOME), without appearing to get close to completion. Unlike KDE or GNOME, which can incrementally add and deprecate features and APIs (potentially ending up with the same mess of legacy interfaces that plagues Windows), GNUstep is implementing the OPENSTEP API, jointly developed by NeXT and Sun. This meant that it was not particularly usable until it was about 90% done. This happened in the last year or so which, combined with the introduction of OPENSTEP into the mainstream in the form of Cocoa on OS X, lead to an increase in interest in GNUstep.

The relevance to HURD is tenuous, but I recall Roard mentioning recently that he had seen a demo of a GNUstep desktop running on top of HURD, giving a 100% GNU desktop. Perhaps this is what he was referring to. It doesn't bring HURD any close to release, but when HURD is ready (Real Soon Now(TM)), it is likely that there will be a GNUstep desktop waiting for it. If only the GCC developers would commit Objective-C++ to the main tree and let is have a WebKit-based browser...

This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linux

[jkheit]

This UI and development environment seems so much better than the standard KDE/GNOME stuff, I've always wondered why this was not championed as a default desktop environment for Linux. There is also some OS X compatibility there as well as far as getting a single code base to compile for both environments. That, the unified display postscript, the great development environment, etc. seem to make it a natural and *sane* front end to the otherwise fragmented UI world of Linux.

With the relative compatibility to the OS X/OPENSTEP libraries and code re-use, there could be a real network effect by making this a default environment for Linux and other Unixes.

ISO download sites

[tarzeau]

Thanks Department of Physics, ETHZ, GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso
Thanks inode.at and Robe GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso
Thanks Lyle E. Dodge, GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso
Thanks Philipp, GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso
Thanks Daniel Aubry, GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso
Thanks Peter Samuelson, GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso

Re:Nice Demo

[TheRaven64]

Actually, that's not the cool thing. The cools thing is that the simple app with two lines of code implements the Model-Controller-View pattern. This means that this development approach is 100% scalable to large projects. Oh, and the fact that the output from GORM is a set of serialised objects, so you can instantiate them from the code with the same ease that you would create an object from within your code (particularly useful in document based applications where you'd want to create a large number of identical document views connected to different models).

Interesting how this post appears....

[linguae]

I was just looking at OpenStep/GNUstep/Cocoa stuff before browsing Slashdot today, and I came here to search for old GNUstep articles. Interesting....

Anyways, GNUstep sounds like a very interesting platform. I have always been fond of NEXTSTEP and Mac OS X, and I have been curious about Objective-C and Cocoa. GNUstep gives me an opportunity to learn Objective-C and the OpenStep specification, before I switch to Mac OS X. I seem very impressed by the development environment, and as soon as I build up my C programming skills and learn Objective-C, I'll be developing programs, too.

I only wish, though, that GNUstep was a bit more popular among developers. GNUstep seems to lack programs such as web browsers, word processors, and spreadsheets. Porting applications such as Firefox, Abiword, and Gnumeric, for example, would be difficult because those applications are written in C++, not in C. (GNUstep still doesn't support Objective-C++, because of some difficulties that Apple and GCC has with Apple's Objective-C++ implementation). Even so, I feel that GNUstep has the potential to become a very powerful and influential platform for developers. If it can build its developer base and developers start building applications that are just as good, or better, than what NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP offered, just imagine the possibilities....

Re:Man screw that

[TheRaven64]

Yes. Most of AppKit works. The things that don't are largely bells and whistles which are nice but not essential (and even they are being added slowly). The real problem is that you can't use the same interface definition files on both GNUstep and Cocoa at the moment. Work is currently underway on two fronts to fix that:

1. Adding the ability for GORM to parse XML .nib files from Interface builder.
2. Compiling GORM on OS X linked against Cocoa rather than GNUstep and using it to create Cocoa .nib files directly.

At least one of these should be possible in the next few months.

The Windows port more or less works (transparency in images is broken. Everything else seems to work). Additionally there is a bundle (not yet in the release) which creates Windows-style menu bars instead of GNUstep ones for use on platforms like Windows, KDE and GNOME which are designed by people with no clue about Fitts' Law.

Additionally, Cameleon, the theme engine developed by the article submitter is nearing completion (it's been ready in the next week since the middle of January), and it will eventually be tied in with native theme engines for other desktop environments (including Windows) to give a completely native look for GNUstep apps.

Re:video

[Wordsmith]

It's a codec that might be contained within avi files, or wmv files, or mov files. MPG files are explicitly mpegs.

Now, to make it even more fun. divx is an implimentation of mpeg-4. So even through it's not an mpeg1 or mpeg2 file, in a sense, it's still an mpeg file.

Seeing the trees, but missing the forest...

[pschmied]

The appearance is only skin deep. Creating a theme that looks "good"? That's easy, get some graphic designers together with a usability safety inspector.

Writing a complete framework with rich, well thought-out object libraries? Now that is a feat. GNUStep is a lurker project that is getting close to hitting critical mass. They've got the hard stuff done that others are still swinging at but not quite hitting.

No, the GNUStep people have been much more concerned with laying sewer lines, roadways, electrical grids, water, gas, etc. When they get around to picking the color for their street signs, it'll be good.

Some work is already going into theming.

Now that GNUStep is getting really close to being complete, I hope they look at Cairo as a base for doing something similar to Quartz.

-Peter

Re:This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linu

[bnenning]

As for OS X compatibility, name one OS X program that has been ported to GNUStep.

There's many more than one.

Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s

[Coryoth]

To be honest, yes. You can see the issue most clearly by comparing this and this. One is GNUMail compiled under GNUstep, the other is the very same GNUMail compiled under MacOS X.

To my eye, for reasons I can't fully explain, at first glance the GNUstep version looks more cluttered and complicated even though some inspection will show all the same UI elements in the same places with the same icons. It's the colors, and the sizing and style of the widgets, and just the general feel given off by the look as a whole.

Jedidiah.

Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s

[linguae]

I agree, too. Judging by the screenshots, the Mac OS X port looks very attractive and, to my knowledge, follows the Apple Human Interface Guidelines completely. Heck, it looks just as good as the Mail.app bundled with Mac OS X. The GNUstep version, on the other hand, doesn't look as attractive. Assuming that GNUstep applications follow the design of NEXTSTEP applications, it needs some work. The toolbar should look like buttons, not like an Internet Explorer 3.0-esque design. I also don't really like the arrangement of some of the widgets.

This is an example of the NEXTSTEP Mail.app program. You can see that the GNUMail.app application got many parts right, but its interface still needs some cleaning up to do.

Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s

[Coryoth]

I've seen that page. There is one skin that doesn't address some of the fundamental issues that make GNUstep applications to ugly and clunky looking. Adding gradients does not a good GUI make. Consider the Industrial theme for GTK - very popular, and a very nice theme, but it is also fairly flat and simple.

The big issues I tend to have with GNUstep GUIs are

(1) The big chunky controls. In comparison to the font size all the GNUstep controls are huge boxy things adding to the cluttered look.

(2) List selector widgets: You know the ones, the NeXT file manager used them. They need horizontal scrollbars usually. As far as GUIs go that's not a very efficient or pretty way to manage things. NeXT had some very good ideas. That wasn't one of them. The world has moved on.

(3) Floating menus: MacOS puts the app menus across the top of the screen to "obey Fitt's law", most everyone else has them at the top of the application. GNUstep kindly has them as bizarre free floating objects. Once again, not one of NeXT's better ideas. Can't we move on from slavishly copying NeXT?

(4) Empty scroll troughs: Nice big (due to those huge widget controls) areas of the screen that have no obvious function until you get enough items for the scrollbar to appear. Either put a full size scrollbar in there, or have the scroll widgets appear when required. Again, slavishly copying NeXT even on their "not so good" ideas.

There's a reason no one else took up these particular ideas from NeXT, not even MacOS X which is essentially the next generation NeXT. The reason is that they aren't very good - at the time (early 90s) they looked promising, but we've had GUIs for a long time now, and ideas of what works and what doesn't have come a long way. For some reason GNUstep slavishly follows NeXT even in their foolish early 90s mistakes.

Jedidiah.

Re:Come on!

[TheRaven64]

Well, I'd rather go with the GNUstep vision of duplicating and improving on OS X, than the KDE/GNOME vision of duplicating Windows...