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If The Problem Persists, Reboot The Car
prostoalex writes "Ever-increasing presence of high-tech devices in modern cars is a double-edged sword, the New York Times discovers. Software from different suppliers brings up to some peculiar bugs, such as a heater turning itself on during a hot summer day. In December last year ABI Research estimated that roughly 30% of all warranty issues with new cars were microprocessor- and software-related. The NYT article also quotes an interesting prediction from IBM, saying that by 2010 almost all cars will have the same mechanical systems (hardware), and the differences will be primarily on software level." (That prediction seems as accurate as the IBM prediction that there was a worldwide market for 10 or so computers.)
Well, some of the GM cars come with the electronic power steering, and they can adjust the feel and feedback with sofeware codes. Maybe this preditcion is not really that far off, at least for the cars that are in the same class to beging with.
In the story in the article the sensor when it went crazy reported 32F/0C instead of reporting that it was broken.
It'd be better if there was an impossibly out of range value like -274C reported when the sensor failed so that the problem would be more clear and could be sorted as a marker value rather than one that requires a response.
I will NOT pay to bring it to some expensive certified dealership to get my fucking car rebooted.
That would be akin to bringing your computer to M$ and paying them to fix it every time it crashed.
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If IBM is talking about the computer hardware installed, that may be accurate. Every car has voice regonition, GPS, DVD player, etc. Which features are enabled depend on what you paid. We already see this in consumer electronics. But all cars (or even all those in a model) with the same engine and transmission but different tunings? I don't see that.
Who needs computerized systems? I'm still driving my Ford Pinto, and it works great without any of those 'electronics' in it.
But in all seriousness, why computerize some of those systems? Analog controls aren't 'bad' per se, and the upshot of digital controls is more precision, which I doubt is needed in a car. I'd be fine with 'relatively warm' than '75 F'.
If I ever have the time and money I think it would be a cool project to make a car that is almost entirely mechanical. The only electrical parts would be the sound sytem, lights, heat and ac.
The car I grew up with was like this. When it broke down my dad would get out the 500 page maintenance manual (they used to have those things for cars) and fix it himself. Now even mechanics can't fix some cars unless they pay the manufacturer for the 'right' to know how the hell the car's operating system works.
Ever-increasing presence of high-tech devices in modern cars is a double-edged sword, the New York Times discovers.
The problem the NYT is describing here is not high-tech devices. The problem is crappy firmware.
The auto industry is driven by release dates. The release date for the '06 version of your favorite car is already determined by the industry. Doesn't matter if it's not 100%, it ships that day, regardless.
This is not the best environment to create software in. Hence, you get crappy firmware and that's where those 30% of service calls come from. Believe me, if the auto industry wanted to make bullet proof firmware, the tools are out there (think Mars Rover and VxWorks for example). But the service calls cost less than the development effort, and the end result is - crappy firmware.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
This dates back to the 1940's. Back then, this was probably correct.
It was more than a prediction of this year's markets. At the time, there wasn't any clear technological advances that could make it more affordable. Remember, this was long before the transistor and ICs (which are the two key techs that have made it possible to grow almost exponentially in power).
I'm sure you've read the comparisons between a car and a computer, how the car would go at lightspeed and drive across the galaxy on a cup of fuel. If you assumed a "normal" development, and looked at the gigantic price tag and the relatively few computations it could do, the statement actually looks quite plausible.
Moore's law is pretty much an exception to normal law. We've only gotten so used to it, we assume it is natural. It's not. It was completely, unimaginably wild to believe computers would evolve like they have.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Chick-magnet power.
I bought a 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Sport SUV last year, and while it's been a decent, reliable vehicle since then - I kept running into one annoying little issue. The "check engine" light would occasionally come on, for no obvious reason.
The first time, I took it to a local mechanic my family used for years. He checked everything out, reset the code in the computer, charged me about $50, and said "Looks like it's all ok to me!" I argued that the code had to mean something. He merely mumbled something about it being an emissions-related code that must have come on as a fluke, and maybe I just didn't screw my gas cap on tightly enough the last time....
Well, a few months went by, and sure enough, on came the "check engine" light once again. This time, I had a friend reset it with one of those hand-held ECU code retreivers/testers. He looked the error code up in his book, and said it was an "evaporative emissions leak" error. The only thing we could find possibly wrong on the car was an old PCV valve that might have been sticking. I had that replaced, and waited to see if that would help.
About 2 months later, on came the light again. This time, I searched all over the net to try to find out if any other Montero owners had the same issue. Finally, over on mitsubishisucks.com, I found a message thread about the same problem. One guy claimed his SUV kept doing this until the dealership charged him about $150 to "update the firmware in the engine computer". WTF?!? This whole thing is just an issue with buggy firmware, and yet customers are being billed to have it fixed by the dealership!?! Needless to say, I've just learned to reset the stupid code myself and ignore it.
..built today will be serviceable in 20 years? I wonder sometimes. Not that it's representative, but the new BMW 7-series has over 100 motors operating various things (seats, suspension, etc). Will you really be able to keep today's car "vintage" a few decades from now?
Will there someday be money in ripping out all computers in cars and replacing them with simple mechanics?
Won't it be great when you are stuck out in the middle of nowhere, freezing your ass off and trying not to get raped by passing strangers and your car won't start? You'll be able to call technical support for your car, be handed off to someone who barely speaks english in asia and they'll read off a script to you.
I bet people will start to get pissed about outsourcing THEN. But right now, it only affects geeks. So who gives a fuck. Just wait until it affects the average dumbass driving around.
The scene in I, Robot where the grid gets corrupted and our hero, on his antique gas-driven motorcycle, is the only thing moving on the street.
In the Beginning was the Command Line also has an analogy to automobile menus and a mouse-driven car.
Just wait until we start seeing automotive malware. They'll probably happen soon after there's a popular reason for networking the cars (to get traffic data, perhaps).
We're already starting to see telephone viruses.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
What you're forgetting is that that 1969-built 1.3L engine (did they really make such a thing?) probably made 60hp, while the modern 1.3L makes 100hp or better.
The nearly constant fuel economy of vehicles is not some vast conspiracy, it's just that power is favoured over fuel economy past a certain point. You'd get killed on the freeway if you had to drive a 60hp vehicle. OK, maybe that's hyperbole, but you'd definitely have to adjust your driving style.
Wouldn't it be nice if you could get the very same technical manual that dealers get, free with any car when you purchased it? (Instead of having to either violate copyright laws, buy it on the black/gray market, or pay $500 for it.) Wouldn't it be nice if the car's computer had a small screen. When the check engine light comes on, there would be a little button labeled "More Info" which when pushed, would spit out the error code, and a plain English description of what is wrong, such as: "Oxygen sensor faulty," "Throttle position sensor faulty," "Mass Air Flow Sensor faulty," "Low octane fuel causing timing to be retarded," etc. Perhaps even a reference to the proper page in the technical manual ... Maybe even a compact flash port on the car's computer for downloading firmware updates on the internet, making updating the computer super easy? ... :)
I should really start a car company
I bet people will start to get pissed about outsourcing THEN. But right now, it only affects geeks
Outsourcing is where companies move jobs to where the people are. There are two ways to get rid of it: you can allow the people to move to where the jobs are (through unrestricted immigration), or you can get rid of the jobs altogether.
Regardless, if you honestly think that the effects of world trade are limited to "geeks", then you're simply a dumbass.
service manager saying, "No, you will not charge me for the 'diagnostic' check, I already know what it is. It's code ABC and XYZ. Now, fix."
Because its always a good idea to bitch at someone who is going to work on the metal that's wrapped around your body when you're going 80mph down the highway? Its better to find another garage.
Take your new mini-van back to the dealership and demand that they fix it, plus provide you with a loaner in the meantime. What make is it?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
I'm sick of hearing how wrong the prediction was that the world only needing 10 computers. The fact is, it's roughly correct. The computers are Google, AOL, MSN, a few major ISP/Hosts, a few government and university research super computers, and that's it.
The so-called computers on our desktops are simply network terminals. Yeah, they are powerful network terminals, much more capable than the dumb terminals of old, but they are still data in / data out terminal nodes on a network.
If you choose to quibble - the Google "computer" happens at the moment to be thousands of PCs connected as a cluster, the AOL "computer" is made up of 5 huge mainframe sites, I have no idea what MSN is composed of, and most ISP/Hosts are clusters. These all may, in the not too distant future, become indistinguishable from a single computer. Someone, such as IBM, will build a ridiculously powerful machine with thousands of cell processors, and with some fancy virtualization software, it will allow ISPs to consolidate down to one or a small set of machines for all their hosted sites.
As for the desktop - the network IS the computer. Your stand-alone PC can be a fancy calculator, a glorified word processing machine, a portable music docking station and conduit, etc. These are all "smart terminal" activities. More and more, its what you can do connected to the world that counts. I personally have found that the processor no longer matters for many of my clients and users - it's all about the browser's capabilities, how big and bright their monitor they have, and having the most comfortable chair.
Give these old visionaries the respect they deserve, and embrace the fact that their prediction is coming true.
Outsourcing is where companies move jobs to where the people are.
That is a silly statement. There people everywhere. Outsourcing is the movement of jobs to cheaper labor markets.
Whether outsourcing high tech jobs to cheap foreign labor markets is good thing or a bad thing is a value judgment that depends a lot on your circumstance and economic class. If you are someone who has lost a job and/or cannot land a job due to outsourcing, then you will consider it a *bad* thing. If you are gainfully employed and an investor in a company whose stock price rises due to lower labor costs from outsourcing, then you will consider outsourcing a *good thing*.
Whether outsourcing will be to the benefit or detriment of the US economy in the long term is a prediction usually based on one's economic and political ideology.
There are two ways to get rid of it: you can allow the people to move to where the jobs are (through unrestricted immigration), or you can get rid of the jobs altogether.
Another silly statement. The situation is nowhere near as black and white as that.