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Public Park Designated Copyrighted Space

wiggles writes "The City of Chicago recently completed a $475 million park/civic center known as Millennium Park. One of the central features is a sculpture officially called Cloud Gate and unofficially called "The Bean". The Bean is a giant, 3 story, 110-ton hunk of highly reflective steel. Photographers taking pictures of the sculpture have been charged money by the city. The park district is claiming that pictures of the park violate the designers' and artists' copyrights. Quoth Karen Ryan, the press director for the park's project, "The copyrights for the enhancements in Millennium Park are owned by the artist who created them. As such, anyone reproducing the works, especially for commercial purposes, needs the permission of that artist." In response, Chicagoland bloggers have been posting as many pictures as they can get of The Bean."

21 of 770 comments (clear)

  1. What of other works of art? by TimmyDee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What happens to other publicly displayed works of art? Also, wasn't this payed for by the people of Chicago and thus now owned by the taxpayers? Shouldn't it be up to them to decide how to enforce/not enforce the copyright? Essentially, this is like Ford telling people not to take pictures of their own cars because the designers (read: the company) still own the copyright to the design.

    Appalling.

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    Per Square Mile, a blog about density
    1. Re:What of other works of art? by Seumas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How is taking a photo of a sculpture "reproducing" it anymore than taking a photo of an album is stealing the music?

    2. Re:What of other works of art? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a gift. So what if it wasn't paid for by Chicagoans? It was a gift from SBC to them. So it's now the property of Chicago, of Chicagoans, of the public. BTW, anyone who thinks a gift from SBC to the City is really "free" wouldn't survive a Winter in Chicago - or a Summer, either.

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      make install -not war

    3. Re:What of other works of art? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The irony of all this is that Chicago is beginning one of the largest buildouts of remote-controlled "security" cameras in the U.S., linked by almost a thousand miles of fiber trunk. They can take all the pictures they want of us, but we can't use our cameras in what is nominally a public park.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    4. Re:What of other works of art? by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It should also be noted: No sculptors have rolled carts up to the thing, pulled out their measuring tape, and tried to duplicate it... a photo isn't a copy of it. Comparing this to a master tape and mp3s, or to a oil painting and prints of it just isn't intellectually honest.

    5. Re:What of other works of art? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All this copyright of art, that isn't an indistinguishable reproduction, is intellectually dishonest. Every artist, every art historian, every art-aware person knows that artists are the greatest thieves of all time. Some of the greatest value of even iconoclastic art is its contained versions of prior art. That's what makes them cultural artifacts, from which they derive practically all their value. Completely copyrighting art instances is like gelding all horses.

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      make install -not war

    6. Re:What of other works of art? by Grax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now the trick is for the overlords to print up t-shirts that they retain the copyright for and then place their people in camera view of any event that they would like to censor.

      What if a news event would happen next to this sculpture? Could they deny coverage? If not then who decides what is newsworthy?

      I am sorry. Public sculptures, no matter how the court currently views them, should not be protected from photography. There is too much danger to freedom of speech.

    7. Re:What of other works of art? by srmalloy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There is a distinct difference between art held in a gallery and art put on public display. When this distinction is blurred we run into the issue of putting an unfair limitation on photographers. If the display is on public lands and the upkeep is paid for from public funds then there should be no legal impediment to it being photographed.

      The solution to this is to file a class-action lawsuit (on behalf of all the photographers in the city) back at the city on the basis that posting the sculpture in a public park and attempting to claim copyright infringement on photographs of the park that happen to include the sculpture constitutes a legal taking of the public's right to use the park, and require that the city immediately remove the sculpture, with damages to be paid to anyone who can present to the court a photograph of the park as proof of their use of the park for photographic purposes...

      Sometimes stupid lawsuits have their uses...

  2. Next thing you know by RLiegh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    people will be harassed and intimidated merely for taking photos of public landmarks!

    1. Re:Next thing you know by radish · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What I am saying is that the US and MANY other countries are/were attacked by Muslim extremists.
      So should we also be chacking up on people who look like the other terriorists who have attacked the US? Let's see. There's those washington sniper guys. They were black, so let's check up on anyone who's black. Then there's Timothy McVeigh - who was (as far as I can remember) a white christian. Better start locking up some white christians then.

      I think it's better to be over secure and have a lot of people as a false alarm then to let some real threats through and have another 9/11.

      Defending your freedoms by giving up your freedoms? Makes a lot of sense. Moron.

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      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

  3. Stupider by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The entire world is now stupider for having shared a planet with this foolishness.

    In a sense, this is a good thing, because it turns more people against the modern bastardization of copyright law. A few more incidents like this and America will be ready for serious reforms to copyright law.

  4. Charging money by nuclear305 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Photographers taking pictures of the sculpture have been charged money by the city."

    That's about one step short of the RIAA charging me every time I hear a song in a public place...

    Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if the city is keeping that money for themselves rather than collecting that money for the artists that created these so-called copyrighted works.

    I must also wonder how long this will go unchallenged. I can't see this standing up in court if, for example, the land was paid for using tax dollars instead of private funding.

  5. What about the buildings that the bean relfects? by sgant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Bean itself is voilating copyrights of the buildings that it reflects...the reflections themselves are "reproductions" of the buildings that are designed by artists and builders.

    I think the designers of the Prudential Building should charge the designers and the City of Chicago for the reproduction of their building without their permission.

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    "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
  6. This Is The Natural Outcome Of.. by SirChive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...complete and absolute corporate control over a nation's legal framework.

  7. Re:Pay no attention to the Bean behind the curtain by drxray · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, does this mean that weather satellites aren't allowed to point at Chicago any more?

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    Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion
  8. Copies of Copies, Reflections of Reflections by brwski · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is simply what happens when (and these are not necessarily related):

    1. Everything becomes a commodity,
    2. Representations of things become somehow more valuable than the things themselves.
    The first issue expresses itself most clearly in societies where money is held to be both the highest value and the Most Powerful Thing: whoever contols it, and can get their hands on it, clearly has The Power. Thus people seek to control the flow of commodities (which now include ideas, representations, waveforms, etc.) so as to tap into the flow of power, i.e., money. The second issue...well, the second issue is troublesome in its own special way. It also has been dealt with by Baudrillard time and time again. Just check out some of his essays...they're certainly not the final word on the subject, but they cover far more ground that may sensibly be covered here. One might perhaps want to begin with some of the essays in The Transparency of Evil or in Screened Out.
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    brwski
    "Because without beer, things do not seem to go as well''

  9. Re:hmmmmm..... by jackbird · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I always figured the wording of that warning gives YOU permission to tape the call, too :).

  10. Re:OMFG, READ THE LAW! by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm sorry, but a photograph of a sculpture is not a reproduction of said sculpture. If people were out making photographs of some artist's photographs you'd have a point.

    Similarly, you can take photographs of jewlery, but if you take a wax mold and make your own reproductions - even if it's of a piece of jewelery you own - you are violating the artist's copyright. Even in that case though, jewelers get around the other jeweler's copyright my creating their own similar, but not copied, pieces with only subtle differences. Unless the original jeweler has a design patent on some of the unique elements of the design, this is perfectly legal.

    The issue here is that the city wants to make money selling postcards and nobody has sued their asses yet.

  11. Re:USA is actually better than some other places by mcc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah.

    Fuck those liberals who demand that America be the greatest country on earth. They should just sit down and learn to put up with mediocrity in all its forms.

    True patriots understand that loving America means lowering your expectations of it. If lefties actually appreciated the things that made America great, they wouldn't try to protect them from being destroyed.

  12. I remember when I worked at a mall. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I had a walkie-talkie, and a phone and I sat in a booth and told people where the washroom and movie theaters were. Yes, that guy. Yes, it sucked.

    Anyway, the reason I bring this up is this; there was a mall policy; No Cameras! If anybody was seen taking pictures, mall security would swoop down on them and prevent them. Nobody ever explained why this policy was in place, and at the time, (I was young and still learning how the world worked), I honestly didn't care. Furthermore, I got this weird thrill when I caught somebody and had the opportunity to call it in on the com-system like a three alarm fire. Everybody got a buzz off it. "But why?" "Mall policy! Are you making trouble?"

    I'm not even sure if anybody knew the reasons for this weird law enforcement. All anybody knew was that recording images was bad, bad, bad.

    Now, today I could probably think up a couple of reasons why this policy existed, but so what? It doesn't mean a damned thing. Lawyers and politicians have demonstrated time and again that it is entirely possible to come up with rational-sounding reasons for all manner of insane activities and thus get people to accept and go along with them. It happens all the time, and I'm sure everybody can think up an example or twenty.

    The point I found curious is how eerily easy it is to jump whole-heartedly onto the enforcement bandwagon for no other reason than one happens to have been given a symbol of authority. A walkie-talkie, in this case.

    Soldiers will open fire on un-armed demonstrators, their own neighbors, and they will continue to do so because humans are wired in a creepy way. The trick is recognizing this face and taking steps to navigate accordingly.


    -FL

  13. It's not just Funny, it's Insightful too by leonbrooks · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Either the artist wants to be pauid twice (for the commissioning of the work, and again for photos taken of it) or SBC wants to both give away the work and keep it.

    If they wanted to charge people for looking at it, they should have made the park private and charged admission. Having donated the piece to a public park, they've got the only bite at this particular cherry they deserve.

    Unless the RIAA figures out how to DRM your eyeballs, that is. Great SciFi plot idea, but in real life pretty miserable.

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