Chinese Force Mass Closure Of Net Cafes

Chien Andalusia writes "According to this article from the BBC, the Chinese authorities closed 12,575 net cafes towards the end of 2004. Due to the expense of computer hardware, net cafés have become very popular in China in recent years. The laws governing such cafés are very strict, especially in relation to minimising the amount of exposure children can get to the internet. For example, no net café is allowed to open within 200 metres of a middle or elementary school. The article also briefly discusses other restrictions imposed on Chinese net cafés."

Comments

Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[cyberfunk2]

I suppose it's only a matter of time til the chinese government learns what most people already know. If more than a few people know a piece of information, then it's pretty hopeless to try to contain it.

Now if only the RIAA/MPAA would learn this lesson.

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[cyberfunk2]

Right, and what I'm saying, is that once the info's out there, and as long as it's got a important enough value to the people, it's likely to get to them one way or another.

For instance, don't you think they realize on some level whats REALLY going on, i.e. they're being censored. Upon discovering that, I'd be inheriently curious.. what exactly is it they're protecting me from? And lo, the ball and started rolling...

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[ScentCone]

Now if only the RIAA/MPAA would learn this lesson.

Must even the most un-related news items be somehow tortured into a reason to self-proclaim one's rights to an artist's work, unpaid-for? Some Chinese citizen sitting in a net cafe "knowing" the news is not the same as you sitting in your living room "knowing" the latest Green Day CD without paying for it.

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[luvirini]

Yes, but slashdot crowd is hardly your average person on the street. Go ask a a few people on the street some questions about the world, I suggest subjects such as the cosolidation of media, to see how much people on average think about the dangers to free speech.

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[luvirini]

Well, I am not talking only about US, and definitely not in specially "elitistic" way. I have been to quite many countries in the all in all, and the same rule seems to hold true in most of them: Most people do not want to think.

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[beattie]

Or maybe when the news itself is copyrighted, and they start using copyright as a tool of censorship, then you'll reconsider? It's all just bits and bytes. Arbitrarily deciding that some arrangements of 1s and 0s is music that should land you in jail if you copy it, but that another is current news that it's immoral to censor is somewhat dumb.

While some may agree with your premise, your argument is bad. Apply the same logic to some other thing. Say pictures. Why are some pictures like pornography censored, and others like pictures of national landmarks not? It's all just pictures, right?

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[ScentCone]

so limitting free cultural exchange is good, but limitting free speech is bad?

both are important, and both should be legal.

Well, sure. But when an artist chooses to sell their work, and someone else chooses to find a way to get it without paying for it, that's not a freedom of speech issue. That's about people wanting the work that the artist produces, and not wanting to pay for it.

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[saider]

Upon discovering that, I'd be inheriently curious.. what exactly is it they're protecting me from?

Because our society values the freedom to make your own decisions. That's why there's a stink everytime the gov't tries to restrict our expressions.

In China and other places, the people are brought up believing in the Government as a protector, as a father. Since there is little to contradict this, they believe that the government is acting in their best interests when it tells them not to do something. Because of their lifelong conditioning, they accept this fact and move on with their lives.

This is how humans in general operate, and because we are conditioned differently in the West, we have a different response to and view of our governments. North Korea is another example of this. There was a show on PBS showing the horrific conditions in the country. The only reason they put up with it is because they honestly feel that South Korea and their imperialist allies will kill each and every one of them. They are in a completely different reality.

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[Znork]

For every person exposing the truth, hire ten to malign him, change the issue, confuse the facts, misrepresent his views, misrepresent your views and outright lie and threaten.

I've realized that I'm being manipulated every day, and I live in a western democracy. Do you know how very difficult it is to discern who is manipulating you in what way, and how they in turn have been manipulated? Do you understand how difficult it is when you cannot even trust your own mind and language, as you will find your very instincts erraneous and the very language biased?

In your average newspaper and newscast it's almost impossible to find a single unbiased and non-propagandistic article. They're as rare as factually correct articles, and often the two go hand in hand. As journalists no longer appear to have the time, and few the integrity, try to do the factchecking yourself, and trace interests and bias in the article, and compare between different ones.

It's not that the average person cant form an opinion, understand a problem or draw conclusions from the facts. It's that the average person does not have the time, inclination or opportunity to double-check and cross-reference every fact and opinion they hear and question every belief and opinion they have once they discover inconsistencies. It's not very rewarding or conductive to living a happy life.

Propaganda works. And you, I and the Chinese get tricked every day.

What exactly are they protecting you from?

Re:Sigh, Freedom of speech out the window

[adamfranco]

In your average newspaper and newscast it's almost impossible to find a single unbiased and non-propagandistic article. They're as rare as factually correct articles, and often the two go hand in hand. As journalists no longer appear to have the time, and few the integrity, try to do the factchecking yourself, and trace interests and bias in the article, and compare between different ones.

For a scholarly look at this issue read Edward Herman & Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media. In it they describe in detail many, many examples how "the powers that be" in the U.S. of A. have used the structure of the mass media to distort the world view of the citizens of this [USA] country.

What exactly are they protecting you from?

As far as I can tell, the nature of Power is such that for the most part, those with it want to keep it. Additionally, money and influence are both part of and equivalent to Power. With [enough] money you can buy influence and with [enough] influence you can obtain money. In order to retain Power those with it must ensure not that the populace is well off, but that they are content enough that they do not rebel or otherwise try to overthrow those in Power.

As much as the United States is a democracy, true democracy (in which all have a generally equal say) is impossible if there is a large concentration of Power (money and/or influence). If Power is not [relatively] evenly spread, then those with it can get a larger say by either force or by manipulating those without Power into agreeing with them.

So, what exactly are they protecting you from? In general, feelings of dissatisfaction with the state of your world (as it reflects on them) and your place in it. This manipulation can come in many forms, but several common ones that are repeated over and over are:

- Enemies: Enemies focus attention away from domestic problems to external entities, as well as providing a framework for "Be happy, at least you aren't in xxxxxx" comments.

- "Mindless" Entertainment: The more entertained you are, the less likely you are to rebel. "The Matrix" is an extreme example of this.

- Playing on dreams: The "American Dream" is partially summarized as the opportunity of anyone who "works hard enough" to climb the economic and social ladders. In the current day and age (as well as many past) this is no more true than elsewhere in the world. A very few people truly go from "rags to riches" while the rest of us stay plus or minus a few degrees from the place where we were born. The promise of the "American Dream" is repeated so often though that most people take it to be truth, thereby voting for tax cuts for the rich on the belief that they will soon be rich too.

These and other tools can and are used by those with Power to protect the rest of us from the harsh truth that we are being cheated and our situation would be better if those with Power didn't have it.

Yay communism

[Nastard]

Because it's important that we limit, as much as is possible, our children's exposure to information, education, technology, or anything else that might shape them into better, more productive members of society.

China: The Biggest Red State.

Re:Yay communism

[jc42]

Indeed; Communism is thoroughly dead in China. The current ruling gang apparently doesn't even give it lip service any more. Many writers with a bit of historical knowledge have commented that China is again ruled by mandarins, though they may not use that term.

It is impressive how long rhetorical terms can last. Thus, Communism died in the old USSR when Stalin took power and became in all but name a new tsar. But Western propagandists still used that country as an example of Communism 50 years later, despite all the objections that the term no longer applied in any meaningful fashion.

It's likely that 50 years from now, Western politicos will still be using China as an example of Communism, in their attempts to extend the old Communist/Capitalist false dichotomy.

It's really just a way of blindly using code words to avoid at reality. A reasonable approach would be to simply treat terms like "Communist", "Capitalist", etc. as symptoms of writing without much thought or understanding. It's hardly worth debating when such terms appear, since (as a form of Godwin's observation) such terms usually mean that no reasonable discussion will be possible. In American politics, the terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" have come to have the same import.

OTOH, if someone refers to events in China as "Chinese", reasonable discussion of events there might be possible. The current rulers of China aren't beholden to any outside ideology; they are their own people, with their own ideas and goals. Understanding will come from talking about them as they are, not by describing them with foreign words that don't apply very well.

Let's reward them ...

[Anonymous Coward]

By expanding "free trade agreements" and raising the H1-B quota !!!

This just in...

[gowen]

Chinese government restrictive, controlling bastards. But given the Great Leap Forwards, assorted purges on intellectuals, the show trials, the widespread censorship, the repression of Tibet and the Tiananmen Square Massacre, did we not know this already?

So, why is this news?

Re:This just in...

[dustmite]

You're right, human rights abuses are only interesting when it's new/exciting information .. because it's not about the information, it's all about the topical buzz, the fashionable memes, yeah man. I mean who wants to discuss China's ongoing human rights abuses, that's like sooo yesterday already! What's "cool" today?

Uh huh...

[UnRDJ]

In other news, the Chinese goverment are a bunch of commie bastards, SCO are liars, and Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop market. Seriously though, this kind of reporting is good. People tend to forget about this kind of stuff unless they're frequently reminded.

And we're surprised why?

[DesScorp]

China, for all the hype about markets opening up their society, is still a totalitarian communist country. I'm not surprised that they've cracked down on the cafes; I'm surprised they exist at all.

Re:And we're surprised why?

[Dogtanian]

China, for all the hype about markets opening up their society, is still a totalitarian communist country.

No, they're a totalitarian capitalist country now. Arguably fascistic, but certainly not democratic.

Re:Finally

[luvirini]

In most countries of the world the local news channels have much more power than any international channel. if for no other reason, then for language issues.

Is not only about censorship

[stm2]

At least the ban for inet cafe close to elementary school. In Argentina we have a similar situation, there are a lot of inet cafes because hardware is very expensive since peso devaluation and Internet conection is also expensive. Most inet cafes are used to chat using MSN and IRC and playing FPSMPG (like Counter Strike), so boys hang around for hours there instead of studying. It is very cheap, because there are a lot of inet cafes, it cost about 0.35$/hour, that is cheap even for us. Boys mostly plays and some MSN, and girls go just to chat via MSN.
I am giving a basic computer course in an elementary school (9 to 12 years old) and they are asking me to teach them just to chat, even before learning how to type!

Not as bad as you may first think...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was in Beijing last summer, and the one thing that struck me was how our American media promotes an image of an evil tyranny in China. (While it is true that most freedoms - as we know them here - don't exist, it isn't the spawn of evil its made out to be.)

I had no problems accessing the Net from my hotel - albeit an intl. dialup connection - and even visited a few Net cafes. Most people I spoke to said the Internet was great but that we Americans don't realize that what we may want or consider a "great freedom" here in the US is not considered as important in the rest of the world. (Alright before you start going berserk and start spewing off about basic human rights, consider that we have made many, many mistakes in the past and it took us time as well to reach a state where we consider these freedoms as our rights; give 'em time!)

Anyway, my point being, Internet was completely accessible except for a few sites that seemed to be proxied out at the Net cafes - Slashdot being one of them! ;)

Re:Yes, it does make them worse.

[yannack]

If we don't like our government, we can vote them out. If Chinese don't like their goverment, they go to jail. There is a big difference.

Actually, it's more like:
If we don't like our government, they make us think we can vote them out, and fix the election.
Is it still such a big difference?

If you think yes, factor in the you-don't-believe-in-our-values-so-we'll-hold-you- without-charges-lawyer-or-rights improvements to the penal code, a.k.a Patriot Act.

Re:So?

[swb]

Its their country, their rules..

Let's take that idea to a logical conclusion:

Sudan...it iss their country, their rules.

Serbia...it is their country, their rules.

We can go back in history and include Cambodia, Nazi Germany, ...

I guess hatred of America is so strong these days that the Slashbots feel compelled to defend every other government, even some of the most despotic and totalitarian.

It backfires!

[Loundry]

Their censorship technology is the best in the world, and it would improve production if it was implemented in USA companies. How would it improve production you ask? It will, for example, keep people from reading Slashdot all day.

There is a psychological phenomenon in humans that control-freaks consistenly forget. Anything that you deny to a human appears more desirable to that human. If you say, "You can't do that," then the person being addressed will tend to want to do it *more*, not *less*.

For example, two children are playing. They may be playing in an ocean of toys, but the most attactive toy in the room to Child A will be the toy that Child B is playing with.

For example, the USA has some of the most repressive laws against drug use in the world, yet the USA is also the world's largest consumer of these "forbidden" drugs.

Also consider that "rooting for the underdog" and "fighting against the man" is seen as cool and hip in American culture. The "rebel" and "outlaw" are seen as positive, not negative, figures in American culture. Didn't all us Americans feel some righteous indignation when the Imperial officer seethes, "You rebel scum!" to Han Solo?

Info may get out, but it has no real potency

[FreeUser]

Right, and what I'm saying, is that once the info's out there, and as long as it's got a important enough value to the people, it's likely to get to them one way or another.

I used to believe that.

Now I no longer do.

There is all kinds of information on the Bush administration that people, including those that served in his first administration, were desperate to get out to the American public, including specifics on his incompetence with respect to guarding against terror, the war on terror, the misinformation on Iraq, etc.

Yet we reelected him, and over half the people in the country believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks, despite proof to the contrary that hasn't only been bandied about on the internet, but has been reported in "mainstream" media news outlets as well.

The information may get out, but misinformation from "official" sources is clearly more potent in the perceptions of the mindless masses. The evidence of that is nowhere as clear (or discouraging) as here in America.

People just don't care

[egy]

I think it just too hard for us to understand china people. They have totally different culture from european/american, so they care more about where to get food than of human rights or freedom.

I am from Ukraine, and in November, when it was Orange Revolution here in Ukraine, I've read various people comments on bbc.com on that topic (our revolution). While most comments were positive, I remember one comment from china's women; she was very negative and said that people should better care about other things as food, money and such.

May be for china people it's acceptable that your goverment are gangsters and thiefs as long as they give you enouth food. For me, it isn't.

PS. Sorry for my bad English.

On the "death" of communism...

[DesScorp]

" Indeed; Communism is thoroughly dead in China."

Some aspects of it are.

"The current ruling gang apparently doesn't even give it lip service any more."

They give it A LOT of lip service. It's still in all of the major speeches during national holidays.

"Thus, Communism died in the old USSR when Stalin took power and became in all but name a new tsar."

That's news to Nikita Kruschev, who was essentially replaced by commitee. No one even knew who the "one guy" in charge was for a couple of years after his removal. Eventually, it was discovered that the Central Commitee picked Leonid Breznhev as the General Secretary. The party regained control after the death of Stalin, and stayed in control until Gorbachev. The attempted coup was BY the major powers of the party. So please don't pretend that communism never existed after Stalin. For all of the evil of that system, the party did pick leadership in an orderly fashion after that.

"...the old Communist/Capitalist false dichotomy."

If you REALLY think there's no difference between capitalism and Soviet style communism, then no rational words are going to sway you.

"...not by describing them with foreign words that don't apply very well."

When they stop calling themselves communists, then maybe we will too. Again, the Chinese leadership still embraces the Marxist/Maoist imagery and speech, voluntarily. No one from the West forced it on them, so please stop acting like we are doing just that. THEY (the governement) identify themselves as communist.

BTW, there ARE still true believers in power in China, many in the military. They don't like the trappings of a market economy, but they do like the money it brings in to pay for planes, tanks, missles, ships, and now, the space program.

Re:My experience in China

[MightyMartian]

> And despite the attempt at censorship, there was a
> lot of information about government corruption
> which managed to leak out anyways. (Chinese gov't
> billionaires, Political elite getting away with
> murder, etc. )

It sounds just like old Imperial China. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

> If there's one thing I learned in China, it was
> how deftly the US government manages to control
> the information which reaches the majority of
> its citizens, despite the existance of a 'free
> press.'

WEll, I'll wager that the US's press is far more free than anything China's ever seen. For every news source that seems quite happy to tow the line (Fox News anyone), there are others that are eager to attack the government of the day on any issue.

A free press isn't about excluding government propaganda, but rather about debunking it.