Wind River Completes Embedded Linux Metamorphosis

4 words by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 04:43 · Score: 1

too little
too late

Re:4 words by Lumpy · 2005-02-14 05:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

actually a little more than that needs to be said.

if they have a solid RT linux product for their embedded offerings then they might be able to tie things up and run with it. If it's a general purpose embedded linux then they just wasted a HUGE amount of time.

A slightly good linux person with 5 days of time and a copy of building embedded linux systems can throw down a good fast small embedded linux distro that will make ANYTHING that a commercial distro look silly and horribly overpriced.

We looked at embedded linux distros 4 years ago here and settled on a roll your own.

we have a better product that we KNOW works for us, is easily customized and is certianly much smaller than anything we could buy.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:4 words by ajrs · 2005-02-14 05:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yours for only 5 days of developer time! < fast talk > maintenance and support not included. some restrictions may apply. some assembly required.
Re:4 words by bani · 2005-02-14 07:42 · Score: 1

maintenance and support not included - redhat does.
some restrictions may apply - especially with restrictive commercial licenses.
some assembly required - all embedded systems are like that. its the nature of the beast.
Re:4 words by ajrs · 2005-02-14 08:08 · Score: 2, Funny

your browser must not render the tag
Re:4 words by den_erpel · 2005-02-14 08:27 · Score: 4, Informative

Same here.

I joined a team working on functionality running on an embedded Linux distribution about a year ago. After doing major cleanup in the sources, including an upgrade to the newest release of the embedded distribution; I started looking under the hood.

Several portions of the distributions were replaced by busybox, uclibc and a gcc-3.4 based toolchain. In the process, we built our own Perl based build system (with CVS): we check in/out only the modified files (basically only platform files) and use the original tarballs (tar xkfj).

As a result, we were able to decrease the embedded compressed filesystem to less than 33%, our code is much closer to the upstream developments (e.g. for network drivers, this can be an issue) and our system is modular and flexible. (btw, size does matter in production and for field upgrades): smaller, faster and cleaner...

I am currently in the process of cleaning up the platform dependent files for release and inclusion into the upstream projects (hopefully they get accepted).

We moved away and have not looked back and saved over 25,000 Euros per year (and rising) in the process. Yes, the embedded distributions are terribly expensive. If you have money to spare, consider hiring teams from the companies selling expertise and releasing the code like http://www.denx.de/, http://www.codepoet.org/, http://www.pengutronix.de/, http://www.mind.be/, ...

--
Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, "Today I will be brilliant."

VxWorks by lxdbxr · 2005-02-14 04:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

I wouldn't say their "metamorphosis", if they ever purported to want or aim to do such a thing, is complete - I mean they are still selling VxWorks right? I believe the top four platforms on their Product Directory are based on VxWorks, not Linux. I think they can fairly be described as an embedded software vendor that supplies Linux platforms, rather than an "embedded Linux vendor".

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-- Nothing unusual happened today

Re:VxWorks by saider · 2005-02-14 04:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

They still run VxWorks and then run something else on top. In this case, Linux. But VxWorks is still handling the hardware, etc. This is also how RTLinux works as well.

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Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
Re:VxWorks by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2005-02-14 05:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

I think they can fairly be described as an embedded software vendor that supplies Linux platforms, rather than an "embedded Linux vendor".

Right on.

They haven't switched. (At least they haven't if the management is on the ball.) They've just added a new product line. Maybe it will pick up. Meanwhile the old standby is still there. Take your pick. Whichever way the market goes they're in the game.

Now they're a two-trick pony.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way

Smart Move by blueZhift · 2005-02-14 04:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think Wind River is making a smart move. They could have easily dug their heels in and raged against the Linux tide. Instead they're going with the flow and building to take advantage of new opportunities and serving their customers' needs. Good show!

--
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started

Re:Smart Move by bhima · 2005-02-14 05:02 · Score: 2, Informative

They DID dig their heels in and raged against the Linux tide. I remember some of their public statements being fairly barbed too! I have to admit I had just switched from VxWorks to NetBSD so maybe I was paying attention a little more closely

--
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Re:Smart Move by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 06:49 · Score: 5, Informative

That was the old regime. I worked at Wind River in 2002, when they were in dire straits, and met the then-CEO, Tom St. Denis, who was firmly anti-Linux--to the point that, if someone in a meeting mentioned Linux, he would just ignore you, as if you hadn't spoken. (Wasn't just me--other people told me the same thing happened to them.) A while after that, St Denis got fired (okay, "left the company to pursue other opportunities") and the new CEO (Ken Klein) is very pro-Linux. I was at a meeting in December where he spoke enthusiastically about open source, and reminded us that the company wants to maintain a "good neighbor policy" (i.e., let developers devote company time to open source projects.) I think this attitude is the single biggest difference between the struggling Wind River of 2002 and the stable Wind River of 2005.
Re:Smart Move by blueZhift · 2005-02-14 07:36 · Score: 1

Hmm, no zealotry here! I'm a veteran of the OS/2 Windows wars, so I've had enough of that! I use whatever works to get the job done. My point is that in a constantly changing technological world, one ignores the tide at your own peril. Linux is not the second coming by any stretch, but it is an important part of the tech landscape now. Ignoring customers who may prefer Linux based solutions is just leaving money on the table. Large companies may be able to afford to ignore developing markets, but small companies can't.

Nobody said VxWorks was a bad product, but I still think that Wind River is making a good move to play the embedded Linux side of the street too, especially if their customers are asking them to do so. Looks like a win win to me, and Wind River too apparently.

--
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Re:Smart Move by bani · 2005-02-14 08:14 · Score: 2, Informative

They could have easily dug their heels in and raged against the Linux tide.

this is in fact what they did do. they used to be one of the most vocal anti-linux vendors around, next to microsoft.
Re:Smart Move by Zoxed · 2005-02-15 23:29 · Score: 1

> They could have easily dug their heels in and raged against the Linux tide.

I thought they were famous for *not* adopting Linux, and only now considered it due to customer pressure ?

Nasa wont switch to Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 04:52 · Score: 1, Informative

NASA uses VXWorks, it is one of thir best customers. They are very conservative, wont switch to linux.

Re:Nasa wont switch to Linux by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2005-02-14 05:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

NASA uses VXWorks, it is one of thir best customers. They are very conservative, wont switch to linux.

When you've spent billions hardening a technology to extremes of reliability, a single failure costs you hundreds of millions and maybe several lives, and the technology you've hardened is more than adequate for the next job, you'd be a fool to switch.

You switch when the job can't be done without a switch, or when the benefits (including risk reductions) outweigh the costs and risks.

It's when you're starting from scratch that older and newer technologies are on a nearly level playing field. When an old tech is in place and performing well the new one needs to have a BIG advantage to displace it.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Re:Nasa wont switch to Linux by WindBourne · 2005-02-14 05:04 · Score: 1

HELLO. Where do you think that a lot of linux technology came from. Ever work in the network driver sections of the kernel?
Ever hear of Beuwolf?
Back when I worked on the MGS client side, we did the work on Linux (but it had to port to Solaris for the final product).

NASA uses whatever works well. Linux works great.

--
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Re:Nasa wont switch to Linux by noselasd · 2005-02-14 05:18 · Score: 1

Still they(NASA) shipped off a couple of rovers to Mars. Running vxWorks.
Re:Nasa wont switch to Linux by mrisaacs · 2005-02-14 05:52 · Score: 1

Nasa may very well find a compelling reason to switch to Linux at some point. Before that, NASA will need to complete a comprehensive validation of the port and the Linux platform. It doesn't matter if the drivers, apps and packages were already certified on another platform - the port needs to be tested to ensure that no bugs have been introduced.

As the parent indicated - when there are millions of dollars worth of mission and possibly lives at stake, you don't change unless you really have to.

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...carrier dead.....
Re:Nasa wont switch to Linux by bani · 2005-02-14 07:07 · Score: 3, Informative

NASA uses Linux for a lot of things, just not space probes (yet). You can see Linux quite heavily used on the desktop machines in mission control at JPL for various space probes.

Linux does fly on space shuttle missions though, various experiments have been run by linux embedded systems.
Re:Nasa wont switch to Linux by GileadGreene · 2005-02-14 08:42 · Score: 4, Informative

Uh, yeah, you might want to take a look at NASA's FlightLinux project before you make statements like that.
Besides, this story is about WindRiver adding Linux to its lineup, not replacing VxWorks.
Re:Nasa wont switch to Linux by fabu10u$ · 2005-02-14 09:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

a single failure costs you hundreds of millions and maybe several lives
Case in point, last I heard they're not even on VxWorks on the shuttle. I think they're still on IBM 360's, at least for the major systems.

--
They say the mind is the first thing to ... uh, what's that saying again?

Considering they did the Mars Rover by kbahey · 2005-02-14 04:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

Considering that it is the same company that did the Mars Rover software, this is a big thing.

For a company with such a high profile product to adopt Linux is only a good thing.

--
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.

Re:Considering they did the Mars Rover by dmh20002 · 2005-02-14 05:03 · Score: 4, Informative

Wind River DID NOT do the Mars Rover software. JPL did. JPL only used Vxworks as the OS. Any mature real time OS would have worked. JPL did the hard part.
Re:Considering they did the Mars Rover by LWATCDR · 2005-02-14 07:55 · Score: 1

"Wind River DID NOT do the Mars Rover software. JPL did. JPL only used Vxworks as the OS. Any mature real time OS would have worked."

Yea but the big deal here is that VxWorks is a mature real time os that does work well enough for NASA to use for the Mars Rovers.

Kind like saying any real time os that is good enough to use for the mars rover is good enough to use for the mars rover.

--
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Re:Considering they did the Mars Rover by szelus · 2005-02-14 19:54 · Score: 1

Yea but the big deal here is that VxWorks is a mature real time os that does work well enough for NASA to use for the Mars Rovers.

Considering my own experience with VxWorks I would gues, that it took JPL *a lot* of effort to harden their particular OS instance so it could be used for Mars Rover.
Re:Considering they did the Mars Rover by grozzie2 · 2005-02-15 20:03 · Score: 1

How soon folks forget. Nasa came damn close to LOSING a mars rover because of a problem with the underlying VxWorks. Doesn't anybody remember the day the rover went quiet, eventually determined to be a problem with the flash file system. Seems they overflowed a directory, and it didn't handle that cleanly...

WIND stock price rebound ... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 04:56 · Score: 4, Informative

The Market thinks they are turning it around.

Less geeky Stock Talk chat here.

Re:WIND stock price rebound ... by Y2 · 2005-02-14 06:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

The Market thinks they are turning it around.

With a trailing P/E of 276, the market must think WindRiver has a philosopher's stone up its sleeve! Even darling GOOG is only half that pricey.

--
"But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"

Pure ignorance: Carrier grade benifits? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 04:57 · Score: 1, Interesting

In the next few months, if we win the contract, I'll be responsible for tweaking an embedded telcom system. While I have no problems with that, I'd like to make sure that I use the right tools for the job.

At what point would Wind River's tools become helpful beyond the normal tweaking and tuning? (Ex: changing buffer or table sizes, removing parts of the kernel that aren't necessary, ...)

I realize that much of this would be project-specifc, though any general tips would be helpful.

Interesting move... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 05:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

...but is Linux really the platform for hard real-time embedded control? I like Linux as much as the next /.er, but it's not the ultimate solution for everything. VxWorks does something very different to most Linux boxes. Let's keep some variety in the world, so we can choose the tool for the job.

Re:Interesting move... by Erwos · 2005-02-14 05:42 · Score: 4, Informative

No, it's not. I used to think Linux would be all that and a bag of chips for embedded systems, but working with it dissuaded me of that fantasy.

It doesn't have a nanosecond clock, and there aren't any patches available for the 2.6 kernel.

There's no real-time support without patching the living hell out of your kernel, and then possibly running a mini-kernel underneath.

And, while not strictly relevant, it also doesn't have PPS API support built-in, which means you're also in for a wonderful round of patching to get something even remotely workable for synchronized systems. There's still no hardpps() support, so even that's just a maybe.

If you want something suitable for critical, real-time embedded systems, you'd have to patch the kernel so much that it'd barely look like Linux at the end.

-Erwos

--
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Re:Interesting move... by Rattencremesuppe · 2005-02-14 06:01 · Score: 1

It depends on your requirements. We're using RTAI for a few applications and it gives us some 10 or 20 microsecond maximum interrupt jitter on a 100MHz PowerPC. For a lot of applications, this is OK. Why stick to a commercial RTOS if Linux solves the problem as well (at least if your RT requirements are not as tight).
Re:Interesting move... by sysadmn · 2005-02-14 06:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

This is Slashdot, don't let the fact that you didn't read the article slow you down. The article, in fact, said
Wind River has said that it expects PNE Linux Edition to popular with makers of telecommunications equipment who use Linux on the control plane along with VxWorks on the data plane, and that the platform would include middleware allowing Linux and VxWorks processes to communicate with each other.
. So VxWorks does what it's good at - hard realtime, and Linux does what it's good at - general purpose computing.

--
Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
Re:Interesting move... by iabervon · 2005-02-14 08:11 · Score: 2, Informative

Standard Linux doesn't do hard real-time, but it is good for parts of the system which don't require hard real-time. If you write a hard real-time system suitably, also, you can use large and valuable portions of Linux with it. The point is really that you can get a programmer familiar with Linux to do all the relatively easy parts of the embedded system, instead of taking up your real-time specialist's time or needing to train someone on special-purpose APIs.

There's also a substantial market for non-real-time embedded systems. Just last week, a SuSE engineer released support for a number of different touchscreens, useful for stores and restaurants. Obviously, you don't need real-time on a cash register, but you have very limited resources and unusual peripherals (e.g., a computer with two touchscreens, a magnetic card reader, a barcode scanner, a lock, a cash drawer, and a line printer; no keyboard or mouse). And you want a pretty simple program, and you want it to be easy to write, easy to customize, and easy to test.
Re:Interesting move... by jd · 2005-02-14 08:20 · Score: 1

I talked to the developers of the Linux PPS kernel patches as to whether they were porting to 2.6. The answer they gave was "something is in progress, just hang on".

2.4 did have PPS support, through the patches, which was cool. 2.6 will apparently be getting PPS support in the not-too-distant future, but I wasn't able to get a timeline for any patches.

I agree that PPS is essential. All we have to do is find out exactly who is working on it, and apply enough pressure to get it done (but not so much that the developer breaks under the strain).

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It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Re:Interesting move... by microbrew_nj · 2005-02-14 09:19 · Score: 1

To clarify some more: Linux is running on the host processor, while VxWorks or some other RTOS is running on device doing the heavy lifting (ARM, some DSP, PowerPC, etc.). Windriver is hardly unique; TI offers Linux and their own RTOS (know as BIOS) as a possible solution. See, for example, http://dspvillage.ti.com/docs/catalog/software/det ails.jhtml?templateId=5121&path=templatedata/cm/sw detail/data/swbios_link
Re:Interesting move... by can56 · 2005-02-14 10:49 · Score: 1

I've developed several real-time aquisition
and control systems using RT-Linux on x86
hardware (using Slackware x.x), and it rocks.
10 KHz rates for a/d and d/a control with ~10
microsecond latency, under *any* kind of load
(disk, network, video, ...).

Granted, you have to know how to apply a patch
to the kernel, (and write a driver for your
application), but in the end, it will work 24/7,
and all the other linux/gnu/... stuff on top
will not know/see the difference in the kernel.

So, if it smells like a linux, looks like a
linux, and waddles like a linux, is it a linux?
Re:Interesting move... by Erwos · 2005-02-15 01:34 · Score: 1

Ulrich Windl already released a version of his PPSKit for 2.6, but has refused to add hardpps() until someone else gets a real nanosecond clock into the kernel.

-Erwos

--
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.

hauppage by smallguy78 · 2005-02-14 05:08 · Score: 1

Used by Hauppage for all you media mvp users. The Wind River side of things is reliable, the windows service side of things is not so good.

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Nothing costs nothing

Linux on Mars? by Jodka · 2005-02-14 05:18 · Score: 1

Didn't Spirit and Opportunity run a Wind River RTOS? So now that a NASA supplier offers Linux, is there some possibility that the next generation of Mars rovers will run Linux?

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Ceci n'est pas une signature.

Yes. Other real time linux distro's by zymano · 2005-02-14 05:20 · Score: 2, Informative

http://www.fsmlabs.com/
http://www.lynuxworks.com /

http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Operating_Sys te ms/Realtime/Linux/

Carrier Grade Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 05:21 · Score: 1, Informative

"The CGL is described as a public reference blueprint for Linux distributions, major end users, and Linux kernel developers to build Linux kernel features and associated libraries that are required by telecommunication carriers in their next-generation network infrastructure."

More on Carrier Grade Linux Spec.

probably not for a while by peter303 · 2005-02-14 06:01 · Score: 1

NASA uses very old, stable versions. Partly because the design-to-landing cycle can take a decade or so.

The replacement of magnetic tapes drives with flash memory exposed a flaw in a newer part of the operating system that sidelined the rovers for two weeks in early 2004. Fortunately they were able to upload a patch.

Subtle ad? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 06:02 · Score: 2, Funny

An anonymous reader writes "Embedded software powerhouse Wind River..."

$20 says the "anonymous reader" is a Wind River employee or shareholder.

Of course, I'm sure that someone will suggest that this anonymous posting is from a Wind River competitor...

Re:Subtle ad? by rewt66 · 2005-02-14 07:28 · Score: 1

Wind River is an embedded software powerhouse. I don't know if the anonymous poster works for them or not, but what he (or she) said is genuinely true.
And, no, I don't work for Wind River. But I did work as a programmer on a product that used vxWorks as the OS for about 3 years. Really nice RTOS.

Wind River's Linux strategy by richard_willey · 2005-02-14 06:39 · Score: 3, Informative

Couple points here that I think need to be made:

1. Historically, Wind River's success in the embedded market was based on the strength of its tool chain rather than the strength of its embedded OS. I suspect that the company's decision to broad the number of OS's that it is supporting is a reflection that the management team has figured this out.

2. As networking becoming more and more important, the requirement for a hard real-time operating systems decreases. You can't get deterministic performance out of a TCP/IP, which means that you can't get it out of a networked application. As a result, a number of designs are going in a different direction, combining a hard real-time hardware component coupled with an embedded Linux control/management plane...

Re:Wind River's Linux strategy by skeptictank · 2005-02-14 16:51 · Score: 1

"2. As networking becoming more and more important, the requirement for a hard real-time operating systems decreases. You can't get deterministic performance out of a TCP/IP, which means that you can't get it out of a networked application. As a result, a number of designs are going in a different direction, combining a hard real-time hardware component coupled with an embedded Linux control/management plane..." Yeah that was the theory, unfortunately it hasn't been working out so well. The quality of hardware development tools is still to primitive to build complex decision making logic straight into fabric. It's actually turning out to be easier to put a low-complexity cpu in the fabric and use a RTOS on top of that to do the complicated stuff.

Even WinCE is better... by mosel-saar-ruwer · 2005-02-14 06:55 · Score: 2, Informative

People rag on M$FT architectures to no end, but WinCE does surprisingly well in real world tests, and Linux does surprisingly poorly:

RunTime: Context switching, Part 1
High-performance programming techniques on Linux and Windows
RunTime: Context switching, Part 2
High-performance programming techniques on Linux and Windows
COMPARISON BETWEEN QNX RTOS V6.1, VXWORKS AE 1.1 AND WINDOWS CE .NET
PDF DOCUMENT

Re:Even WinCE is better... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 07:18 · Score: 2, Informative

It should be pointed out that Wind River doesn't even sell Vxworks AE any more, and hasn't for about 2-3 years.. it was a branch that 'died on the vine' so to speak. AE added lots of features that probably slowed it down a lot. I suspect the results would be quite different if VxWorks 5.5 were used in the comparisons...
Re:Even WinCE is better... by nchip · 2005-02-14 08:58 · Score: 1

However moderated you insightful, didn't do their homework. Scheduler performance between redhat 7.3 and windows 2000 is hardly relevant these days. Especially since on Linux the threading library and kernel scheduler has rewritten ( the latter several times..).

--
signatures pending - ansa@kos.to - (dont mail there)
Re:Even WinCE is better... by Omega+Blue · 2005-02-14 16:37 · Score: 1, Interesting

I don't know what you are talking about.

The first two articles compared RH7.3 with W2K Advanced Server and Windows XP, no WinCE was involved. The third article does not compare Linux with anything else.

I must say RH7.3 does admirably well, seeing that it was compared with Microsoft's high-end products, and it's not an optimised kernel like W2K AS.

And it only took... by TheRealMadScientist · 2005-02-14 07:41 · Score: 1, Interesting

...suing the shit out of Green Hills Software http://www.ghs.com/news/20050118_WRS.html in express violation of a business contract to make this new product even remotely viable in the marketplace. Kudos to you...mini-SCO!

--
"Vee do not vear the hello-my-name-ist badge!!" - The Real Mad Scientist

Linux in Space? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-14 08:11 · Score: 1, Funny

Does this mean that we will soon have Linux systems running on other planets and moons? Didn't Wind River supply the OS for the Mars rovers? It would be cool if we could say that "Linux powers 34% of servers on Earth, and most computers elsewhere."

Guilt? by birdman17 · 2005-02-14 08:44 · Score: 1

From TFA: "...really leverage our Workbench development suite and all of the capabilities that we've guilt into that."

Some vendors use FUD, others use good ol' guilt...

Stupid me by fabu10u$ · 2005-02-14 09:55 · Score: 1

For a little while there, I kept wondering, "Why do they keep mentioning this WinDriver site and what do they care about VxWorks or Linux?"

Duh...

--
They say the mind is the first thing to ... uh, what's that saying again?

Re:Pure ignorance: Carrier grade benifits? by gnalre · 2005-02-14 12:23 · Score: 1

Vxworks do provide a lot of good tools. There windview tool is a must if you want to find performance bottle necks.

People forget embedded development is a lot harder than normal PC based stuff, because it can be difficult to get into the device when its running.

I went to a presentation by wind river on there new tools and despite my sceptsism I was quite impressed.

--
Choose your allies carefully, it is highly unlikely you will be held accountable for the actions of your enemies

Re:Firefox hostile web site by peterlu · 2005-02-14 14:13 · Score: 1

Hi, I'm unable to duplicate this at http://www.windriver.com (I tried several areas of the site). Can you provide the link to a page that is exhibiting the problem? I'm using Windows XP, Firefox 1.0 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0] Regards, Peter.

Re:Source code? by /dev/trash · 2005-02-14 14:37 · Score: 1

In a sealed container than can be bought for the price of a WindRiver System?

They won't dump VxWorks by EmbeddedJanitor · 2005-02-14 15:17 · Score: 1

It is not really metamorphesis. They have not stopped VxWorks. They just offer Embedded Linux too.

--
Engineering is the art of compromise.

!Learning Advice Wanted! by Mana+Mana · 2005-02-14 15:44 · Score: 1

I am learning C and wanting to seriously get into embedded systems (I searched Oreilly but its sparse), can someone knowledgeable point me into a series of books, and websites, give me some great advise to begin down the path of apprenticeship and onto expertise? Much obliged if you would; and if you would moderate this post up just till it starts getting replies.

Re:!Learning Advice Wanted! by skeptictank · 2005-02-14 17:07 · Score: 1

First of all get a degree in Computer Science Engineering, Computer Engineering or Electrical Engineering from an Engineering College. A Computer Science/IT degree from a non-egineering school isn't going to cut it. You need to build some hardware along the way. While your in school get internships at telecos, robotic, heavy equipment manufacturers, consumer electronics, defense/avionics companies, etc - which ever you think you might prefer.

Re:Pure ignorance: Carrier grade benifits? by skeptictank · 2005-02-14 16:27 · Score: 1

The place where WindRiver tools really shine is bringing up an OS on a custom board from scratch. The JTAG ICE based debuggers that WR sells are good for debugging ISRs, bootloaders, etc. I have written device drivers without source-level ICE debugging :{ a good ICE debugger can save you months and months and months of efforts when it comes to doing that type of low-level development. The task level debuggers are better for application development, profiling, etc. The Tornado front end to gdb was better than the open-source alternatives several years ago, I am not sure if that is still true or not. Hope that helps some, like you said it's very project specific.

Re:Linux on Mars? NO by skeptictank · 2005-02-14 16:39 · Score: 1

Linux isn't suitable for hard-real time control. I could see Linux eventually having a place in robotic systems above the level of actually controlling motors and actuators, but you are still going to need a RTOS running on a dedicated processor to actually control the robot's movements.

Re:Firefox hostile web site by peterlu · 2005-02-15 01:14 · Score: 1

Response from Wind River webmasters:

Hello Peter-

Thanks for taking an interest in the perception of our site. [...]

Most of us have been avid proponents of Firefox use for quite some time now, and it is one of the 5 browsers that we typically QA in.

There is a specific condition related to the display mechanism for our products pages that can lead to the behavior that the slashdot reader describes. Was curious to see that it doesn't seem to effect Linux versions of the browser, of course it may be that the Linux user --and possibly yourself-- just didn't happen by any of our product pages.

At any rate, we are aware of the issue and the solution is to re-engineer the entrire products section of the site. We intend to do this in March.

Re:Firefox hostile web site by Quiet_Desperation · 2005-02-15 02:24 · Score: 1

Firefox 1.0 on Win20000. It's pretty much every time I click a link anywhere on the site. The maximized browser window moves about 40 pixels down and to the left.

What about BSDi? by mi · 2005-02-16 01:36 · Score: 1

When they acquired BSDi in April 2001, it was even billed by some as "answering the Linux challenge".

Today one can not find BSDi among WindRiver's products (it used to be there just recently, according to Google, though), and customers in need of support for their earlier bought licenses are requested to contact BSDMall instead.

--
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.

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Wind River Completes Embedded Linux Metamorphosis

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