Slashdot Mirror
Young Women Encouraged to Go For IT
An anonymous reader writes "Wednesday Microsoft Canada's vice president of developer and platform evangelism encouraged 9th grade girls to head for an IT career with a presentation that debunked key myths. Apparently IT isn't geeky or socially isolating. From the article: "Some issues (the girls) brought up included fears that their friends will think (working in IT) is a geeky thing to do, and that IT work is not very social...They were concerned that there were limitations for women in this area of technology, and they felt there is a stigma associated with IT in terms of it not being a very exciting place to work."
I can't believe these are even real concerns among women. Why does your profession have to seem cool to other people? You do stuff because you think there's a challenge there or if it's interesting. Who cares what your friends think? What the f is wrong with women in the US and Canada? If they think like this, I almost don't even want them in the IT industry. I want free thinkers.
"For the next twenty years I'll sit in a big box called a cubicle. It's like a restroom stall but with lower walls. I spend most of my time hoping the electromagnetic fields from my office equipment aren't killing me."
The coolest voice ever.
Anyone who's studied even a bit of psychology and perhaps some communications will realize male's and female's naturally excel in certain area's and are also drawn to those things. There's a REASON why you don't see many girl geeks... why try to force this on them by basically lying about it?
While it may just be "stigmata" about the socially isolating aspects, it surely isn't about the "boring" aspects. I promise you my girlfriend just wouldn't ever enjoy spending 6 hours recompiling and securing a *nix system. Where as I find it to be quite relaxing and a fun challenge at times.
Some issues (the girls) brought up included fears that their friends will think (working in IT) is a geeky thing to do
If someone is going to be influenced by what their friends think, perhaps we should let them be influenced. Many consider going into IT to be geeky. If you're immature enough to let your friends stop you from going into a particular market, then maybe your not really ready for any serious market and should work in a market that requires next to no maturity (I hear McDonalds is looking for people to hire).
And as a guy student at Georgia Tech, I definately hope that more women start studying the sciences..
We'd all like to believe that those 'myths' *are* in fact myths, and that the stigma associated with IT careers is unwarranted.
But I think there probably is more than a kernel of truth to them. IT careers, at least the ones I've had, aren't in fact very social. Aside from the not-so-infrequent game of foosball, there was not a heck of a lot of interaction going on. Let's face it, IT-centric jobs are not exactly hubs of social activity, so why pretend otherwise?
Certainly there will be much anectodal evidence to illustrate the converse, but on the whole I think it is difficult to discredit the assertion that IT workplaces aren't as socially-friendly as many other fields. If what women are looking for is human interaction, we should not mislead them down the path to computer-centric work.
It behooves us to be honest about what we do.
I haven't noticed a stigma with the several girls here at work. I have however noticed that if any one of them ever runs into a problem in their code or admining in general, they generally have half a dozen guys fighting to give them a hand ;-)
Once your High Elf builds up enough EXP points and you've found the right Star Trek .sig for your posts, all these fears will melt away.
Wednesday Microsoft Canada's vice president of developer and platform evangelism encouraged 9th grade girls to head for an IT career
In a related story, Microsoft was seeking ways to reduce its IT costs by about 25%.
It's rather imperative that young women get an early jump into the world of technology. The earlier, the better. IT is a very tough world, and it's extremely competitive, particularly in the realm of programming. I believe (note: personally - not backed by science) that girls develop faster intellectually during jr. high and early high school. The earlier the better I say to get the jump.
I can only attribute my own success in the IT industry from being exposed to computers and getting involved with them as they began to take root in the very early 80s. My dad got me a Vic20 when I was 8, and I was writing programs soon thereafter. I went through the whole gambit of OS's and languages and whatever software I could get my hands on. Because I grew up real poor, I was lucky to use what was provided by the schools, so it gave me a wide range of exposure.
By the time I got to college, I had developed chronic pain, and couldn't do work study in the cafeteria (why is that always the first job??) - so I picked up a job because I knew MSDOS and WP5.0. I was a consultant for a lab at college! And they put me through 2 weeks of school at HP!! *woooo* Not long after that, I changed my major and I was on my way to where I am today. Then I transferred schools to a better program.
Coming up through the ranks in the relatively new field of Information Technology has been fraught with a lot of challenges. Not only is it you against everyone else who is better trained, smarter, or more motivated.. but there truly is a battle of the sexes in IT. Particularly on the network systems operations side of the house. Come on... you know it and see it every day. Sometimes it's caused major issues, but it all has depended on the environment and the level of professionality within it. It's *tough* when you are faced with working 75 - 90 hours a week, and then have to go home and raise a family and care for a home. But we do it, we do it gratefully, because it's afforded us girls a chance to stand on equal footing for once. At least I did.
All of that being said, I fully believe that there should be strong internship and mentoring programs for all young people getting involved with IT, especially those coming in from the bootcamp schools like Microskills, or whatever. While they may have the knowledge and motivation - there is an awful lot more to the IT culture than knowing how to install Windows 2003 or Linux. I sure know that I could have and still do need a good mentor to help me through tough situations that arise in the day to day operations of IT. Some things, I couldn't get through on my own, and left me high and dry, not because of any other reason that my own dumb ass.
Finally, I have to say that 14 years in the industry, I've gone from a flunky consultant bossing around lunkheads in business school to a sr. systems engineer doing huge infrastructure implementations and upgrades, project management, and policy design & implementation. And every 72 hour stretch, all nighter, business trip, massive outage, tear, sweat, blood and torn muscle has been worth it to be where I am today. And I couldn't have done it without the love and dreams that I started building as a child.
Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
Maybe it's just Canadian specifics, but I am still
yet to meet qualified professional programmer who
is unemployed. Not self-taught 'PHP hacker' or half-
baked VB 'programmer', but a CS graduate with decent
diploma and a hint of passion for IT.
...you should focus on being a careful thinker.
That would include, for example, not drawing inferences about "women in the US and Canada" based upon the reported meanderings of 14 year olds.
Why?
I won't let my daughter go into IT if I have any say. If you don't go into IT management, your options shrink when you get into your mid 40's and after. Plus, global competition is eating away at both salaries and opportunitees. Business and sales have more long-term opportunities and safer from cheap offshore labor. If she has the knack, that is where I will encourage her to go. IT is fine if you really dig it for technology's satisfaction alone; otherwise it is a dead-end wallet-drainer going the way of manufacturing.
Table-ized A.I.
I haven't noticed a stigma with the several girls here at work. I have however noticed that if any one of them ever runs into a problem in their code or admining in general, they generally have half a dozen guys fighting to give them a hand ;-)
Which can very often be exactly the problem. Many girls in IT have a disadvantage because they have not had as much chance to solve problems independently. Helplessness is a habit that is very easy to acquire but can be very harmful in the long run.
Seattle Eastside Math and Science Tutoring
Here's the problem with that assumption. The IT training industry isn't based in reputable universities, its based in flimflam diploma factories and accreditation outfits. These 'institutions' have basically been responsible for the retraining of a large portion of the population with the underlying assumption that a small and and generally specialized set of skills (PHP monkey, VB programmer) will land you a modicum of financial stability. What they have in fact done is recast the IT professional as a new class in our society, one which, for all intents and purposes, replaces the dwindling blue-collar worker. The IT training industry guarantees a disposable, cheap, and never-ending source of labour for information companies. With this in mind it's little wonder that outfits which depend on such labour would seek to double their training pool?
Now, as an alpha geek (Slashdot on Saturday? guilty)
Dude, that just gets you into the club. Don't expect to be elected president.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Unlike boys, I suppose?
Because, as we all know, young male geeks are always the most popular kids in high school. They're never social outcasts. They're never isolated. They always have girlfriends. They never EVER get bullied.
See the point?
In your rush to play knight in shining armor to these "victims" who don't feel "encouraged" enough, you've completely ignored the fact that boys have traditionally never been encouraged to get into these fields either. They've typically received harsher treatment, including physical violence, just for being geeks. But notice, they didn't give up, they didn't run off and major in business or medicine, no, they stuck it out.
Remember when Jon Katz tried to make a big deal out of bullying? Most Slashdotters would have nothing of it, even though many were themselves victims of bullying. At worst they might crack the occasional joke about it, but they seldom--if ever--complain.
Why can't women do the same? Why can't they just stop complaining, STFU, and do their work just as men do? Why do they always need special treatment, special privileges, and special protection?
What a backward society. Here in America men and women can return to work within mere days of the birth of the new child. For the first couple years of the child's life they leave him or her with strangers at an all day care facility. What a wonderfully uplifiting, social experience for the child. After that, our advanced technology has allowed us to use television, video games, and an excess of overly competitive sports and pointless hobbies to develop the child's intellect, keep them from trouble, and raise them to be wonderful members of society. Caring for your children directly is such a thing of the past, leave it to professionals is what I say.