Aus. Gov't Considers Fines for Online Suicide Info

downundarob writes "The Australian federal government is once again showing its cluelessness regarding the workings of the Internet. The short article tells us how, under legislation to be introduced this week, corporations would be fined up to AU$500,000 and individuals AU$100,000 if they use the Internet to incite or promote suicide methods. In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide."

Comments

Step 1: Get eaten by dingoes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Step 2: Fines for slashdot.

Fines ?

[mirko]

Some people actually want to commit suicide a quiet way. I had a deep depression last winter and actively looked for such info but could not find some.
If I were to look again, I think I'd offer one $ more than the fine amount to the one who'd help me.

Re:Fines ?

[rathehun]

I think you should seek some profesional help. While I realise that I am an anonyomous entity on one of the internets largest discussion sites and have no idea of your personal problems, I believe that there is no situation in which suicide is a good option.

Please do get in touch with someone who can help, friends, family. If you feel comfortable revealing your address on /., then I'm sure that someone can direct you to a good psychiatrist in the area.

Re:Fines ?

[temojen]

I believe that there is no situation in which suicide is a good option.

Suicide is a permanent solution to suffering, but it also stops love, joy, etc.

The time when suicide is a good option is when you are absolutely sure the suffering is permanent and no amount of love or joy can mitigate it. Depression is not one of those times; depression is temporary. A painful, debilitating, degenerative, permanent medical condition may cause suicide to be a good option. Only the person herself can make that decision.

Re:Fines ?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

No. The selfish act is telling people that suicide is wrong. The selfish act is those that wish to live placing their feelings over the terrible suffering of those that wish to die.

The reason why religions classify suicide as a terrible sin is quite different. The religions that survive today are those that do best at promoting their own survival. This is why religions try to take control over the sex lives and deaths of their believers. They wish to control sex because they want to ensure that sex serves one purpose - increasing the flock, and they wish to control death because they need to ensure that any death results in the recruitment of more followers eg. martyrdom rather than quiet suicide.

deterrant

[Anonymous Coward]

they should instate the death penalty for suicides. that should have a deterrant effect.

Re:deterrant

[LarsWestergren]

The opposite of the evil situation where people who have recieved the death penalty are prevented from commiting suicide, because only the state gets to decide time and means of death of the person. The ultimate in fascist control. "You are a thing. We control you totally, life and death".

My own opinion is that people should have the right to decide what to do with their own lives, and that includes deciding how to die.

However, I still find suicide to be the ultimately selfish act. I was on a ski trip a few years back. One guy who came along (aquaintance of an aquaintance) talked a lot about having been depressed and still occasionally considering suicide. His closest friend on the trip said "Ok, but you will leave your children without a father, and emotionally devastated. Also consider what an example you are setting for them. You will show them that suicide is an acceptable situation when they are depressed. Consider that first."

The guy became very silent after that. I felt sorry for him of course. While true, the guilt might have been another emotional burden for him.

objectionable material definition

[Engineer Andy]

Governments everywhere legislate what is and what is not objectionable material. This is just part of australia saying that this is material that they do not want published in australian websites. Your views may differ as to whether it is right to or not, but it is not unreasonable for governments to object to sites showing how to do illegal things.

Different in terms of why it is objectionable, but the same reasons lie behind why governments legislate against kiddy pr0n, pull down sites with bomb making instructions, incitements for hatred (in many countries).

Australians Have a Viable Income Source....

[yuriismaster]

They can sue http://livejournal.com/, hosting the most suicidal entries known to man.

"Justice Minister Chris Ellison says the laws ... will not hinder free speech"

Well I'm sorry, but I don't think you can take down a site that says "Life sucks, kill yourself" without violating free speech.

Re:Find A Taller Building

[Big Nothing]

I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born - Ronald Reagan

I've noticed that everyone who is for death penalty has not been executed - me.

Looks like Microsoft is in trouble!

[Red Pointy Tail]

Clippy is obviously guilty.

Illegal to succeed at suicide?

[vyrus128]

"... illegal to commit, or attempt to commit, suicide."

I can see it now...

Police: "We know you're in there! Come out with your hands in the air!"
Body: <doesn't move>
Police: "Just because you're dead, don't think the law doesn't apply to you!"

respect their decision.

[applegoddess]

argh, why can't people leave others alone? If they feel miserable enough to consider suicide, then respect their decision. you don't always know the whole story behind it, so just automatically saying "oh dont kill yourself, get professional help" goes in one ear and out the other. Seriously, I just ignore the default-talking-out-of-suicide talks because they're unbelievably redundant and irritating. Save yourself the trouble.

When I go through my suicidal phases, what helps most is talking to close friends who have dealt with similar issues, especially if they listen to you ranting (which really feels good). Not $random_person telling me it's a bad idea, blah blah.

Sorry for ranting.

Been there, tried that

[mlmitton]

I've long battled depression, and have tried to committ suicide. I can tell you that the information I found on the Internet made me feel far more comfortable with the prospects of killing myself. I knew enough to know that a gun to the head could leave you alive and a vegetable. I knew that slitting your wrists was very difficult, with a good chance that you'd slice tendons and ruin your hand. I knew that OTC medicines are very difficult--you throw up or fall asleep long before you can ingest a lethal dose.

What I didn't know is what methods would assuredly kill me. Or, if they wouldn't necessarily kill me, leave me without lasting harm. The Internet told me. There are all kinds of websites out there talking about the various suicide methods, with recommendations. You can easily order Final Exit, or even find the text online.

Moreover, the Internet provides knowledge for where to obtain lethal substances, and substances that put you in a state making it easier to kill yourself.

I am quite confident that I would never have attempted suicide if I didn't have access to the Internet. The method I chose would not have even occurred to me if I hadn't read about it online. Indeed, it was the most recommended method on the net, and I wouldn't have thought it.

So I think it's obvious that the Internet lowers the bar to committing suicide.

But that said, it's ridiculous to consider sensoring this information. There are the obvious free speech issues which I'm sure other people here will discuss. What I want to note, however, is that for me, research suicide options was also therapeutic. People think how terrible it is that someone would contemplate suicide, but they don't realize how much thinking about it can relieve the pain that you're in. I could lose all control of my thought processes, spiarling downward, but when I started imagining shooting myself, I felt *better*. In this way, the research I did on suicide was also soothing. Instead of curling up in a ball on the floor, I could focus my mind on this subject, and this subject alone, and I would calm down and feel relief.

So it's a two-edged sword. The knowledge I gained on the Internet did enable my attempt. But being able to research that material made me feel better, better than I would have otherwise.

Final disclaimer: All happy people are more or less the same, but all depressed people are depressed in their own way. So this is my experience only. (Yes, I've been doing well for some time--thanks for asking!)

If you need ideas on how...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you need ideas on how to kill yourself, then you don't really want to die. As a Roman Empire era judge said to someone convicted of the capital crime of being a Christian because he refused to deny he was one, "I have better things to do than help you commit suicide. Are there not cliffs enough in the world for you to do that without me?" (paraphrased)

If Trying to Kill Yourself is Illegal There

[Greyfox]

Why is Steve Irwin still a free man?

And if there's one thing that guy's taught us, it's that Australia is full of critters that will happily kill you if you just piss them off a little. It's probably much easier to kill yourself off there than it is here in the states (Although we also have our share of poisonous nasties.) Most of the methods you can find on the internet are much more pedestrian than "Walk down to the local river, get a drink and be eaten by a crocodile." Now THAT's a great way to go, eh? Just make sure it gets you by the head and not by a leg or something...

Re:details

[anethema]

My sister killed herself last year (almost to the day).

If she wasnt already dead I'd kill her for the pain and suffering she has cause me and especially my parents (and of course the rest of the family)

Suicide is never an option, unless maybe you are some hermit who no one loves. Nothing would be worth doing that to your wife. It would ruin her life forever.

I realize you're cured but you dont really seem to grasp how much it affects the people around you.

My parents are fucked up, my grades have gone to shit, and the whole family seems to just be permanently melancholie.

My advice to anyone contemplating suicide..DONT. Nothing is worth ruining the lives of your loved ones.

Suicide is not illegal in Australia

[jaani]

From the story ouline:

In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide.

This is incorrect. In the statutes governing criminal offences in each of the six states and two territories of Australia, it is - to my knowledge - not illegal to commit or attempt to commit suicide. Though it was once illegal in some jurisdictions, such laws were repealed well over half a century ago (mostly on the basis of policy roughly informed by the libertarian doctrines other users here seem to be espousing). See, for example, the Crimes Act 1958 (Vic), which provides, inter alia:

6A. Suicide no longer a crime

The rule of law whereby it is a crime for a
person to commit or to attempt to commit
suicide is hereby abrogated.

So while it might be fun to poke fun at the frequently conservative and sometimes ridiculous legislators of our respective countries, please do some basic fact-checking first. (For reference, all Australian Commonwealth [ie, Federal] and State legislation can be found at: http://www.austlii.edu.au/). Then again, this is Slashdot... :-)

Suicide is legal in Australia

[HelloNewman]

Timothy says "In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide." Not true. Sure we'd try to stop you, like all civilised cultures. But if you don't succeed, it's not an offence - just sad. IMHO, Australia has more freedom than America to live our life as we choose. We don't have to act as christians just to fit in with the majority.

Re:Final solution?

[aztracker1]

I say we make suicide and attempted suicide death penalty offences.. that'll teach 'em.

From a Bi-Polar (Giving up Points!)

[ImaLamer]

I'm now 24 and have suffered with Bipolar Disorder (Rapid Cycling, or Ultra-Ultra-Rapid Cycling Bipolar according to this page) since I was about 13 or 14 and officially diagnosed at 16 years old. As a consequence of my illness, which includes episodes of depression, I dropped out of school and seriously messed up.

I lost all of my friends and ruined relationships I thought would, and might have, lasted forever and have pretty much retreated from the world. For about two years I went through a severe depressed episode, the whole time almost getting help here and there. I truely thought all things were lost and started to slowly kill myself with any type of controlled substance I could get my hands on.

Ok, that was a severe exaggeration, but I was binging on everything. I started to do stupid (fun) things that would later set me up for a lot of trouble until something changed. I didn't get help, I just had a conversion. It happened to be a religious conversion but it wasn't religion that saved me. Well, I went through three religions before I settled on one I liked and incorporated everything else I learned.

During all of this I realized on the side that I was going to face bad days. I was going to be depressed and that my life wasn't going to end up the way I had always dreamed (which is a understatement-I barely function). But you know, I realized that hurting everyone else was pretty petty considering if I waited it out I would feel better some day. My chance of feeling like that forever was zero; so why not just say "Fuck it" and move on?

Not only is suicide the worst way to treat depression it is never the answer to any problem. Drugs, crime, shame, anything.... it's happened to someone before, lots of people. Some of them made it out. Shit, even if you are on crack - smoke that and say fuck it and live. You won't get a chance to do it again. I'm not even going to get on a high horse and tell you to quit the pipe - that is something to live for, it's a start.

I'll feel like no one if you don't mod this up, of course. And if you have any empathy and would like to help my situation support mental health parity in the insurance industry (which would help afflicted minors in the transition to adulthood). Please also oppose cuts to the nations Medicaid system at a time when it's imperative it reach out more to mentally ill citizens.

Re:details

[anethema]

You fill find this pretty hard to believe, but our family was as close to a perfect family I've seen I think. I'm sure there are better but it doesnt get that much better.

Upper middle class family, dad started his own company, but by the time my sister was around he was home a lot.

No abuse, parents rarely fought..When I was growing up we were pretty poor (company just getting started and all) but when my sister was growing up we were decently well off.

My dad's side of the family is european, and all had very strong family values...

Parents seem to believe in god, but not enough to go to church, and never preached it to us, letting us make our own decision when we got old enough (me and her both decided it was a lot of hooey).

My parents every other year save up all year and take me and my sister on a trip to mexico. Sometimes every year if the money is good enough.

Not sure really how our family life could have been improved. Everyone i see around me has divorced parents, dysfunctinal relationships with the parents they do have...etc

I had a good relationship with her, but I moved out early because I love living on my own.

The sad thing is, because of the strong family values and that my sister had a good personality and everyone liked her..if she would have let on the tinyest bit that she was suicidal, anyone in the family would have done ANYTHING to stop this from happening. Myself included.

She left no note or indication of why she did it. She blocked me on msn that night, i assume so i wouldnt see her name she put "fuck you all, i'm gonna say goodbye" or something along those lines.

She has some really shitty drug addict freinds, i assume that couldnt have helped. The tox report came back negative for everything except a little bit of alcohol.

Either way, all of that beeing said..I am angry at her, but i still love her. I came off sounding madder at her than i am. Just trying to convince the grandgrandparent that suicide was a stupid thing to do because of the consequences it has for everyone.

Maybe she did have her reasons to die, but they werent worth the misery they caused.

A lot of people thus far have called me selfish etc, but i cant imagine what would be more selfish than what my sister did. I'm thinking of the welfare of my entire family. Now my parents marriage is on the rocks, my grades have gone to shit, and the rest of the family is totally depressed (all like i said before).

I think it must have been illness, but she didnt display any of the signs. She didnt get happier towards the end like some do, she didnt look super depressed. She had a low self image, like most teen girls...but none of this seems like suicide material to me...I guess it must have been illness.

Ah too much typing, just trying to get across to you that our family life was really great, and i dont have a single regret about my childhood. My sister was more spoiled than I was i guess because we had more money, maybe that contributed.

And its okay dont bother sparing my feelings, I'm near impossible to offend.