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Aus. Gov't Considers Fines for Online Suicide Info
downundarob writes "The Australian federal government is once again showing its cluelessness regarding the workings of the Internet. The short article tells us how, under legislation to be introduced this week, corporations would be fined up to AU$500,000 and individuals AU$100,000 if they use the Internet to incite or promote suicide methods. In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide."
Step 2: Fines for slashdot.
This is great! Now we will end the scourge of suicide forever. Funny no-one thought of this before.
Some people actually want to commit suicide a quiet way. I had a deep depression last winter and actively looked for such info but could not find some.
If I were to look again, I think I'd offer one $ more than the fine amount to the one who'd help me.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
they should instate the death penalty for suicides. that should have a deterrant effect.
This just in..
High school girl arrested for telling her boyfriend to 'drink bleach and die'
If this were Fark, we'd need an 'Aussie' tag.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
seeing as the Internet is a major contributing factor to depression and suicide nowadays.
Imagine being fined committing suicide. Give you more incentive to jump wouldn't it?
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born - Ronald Reagan
... the First Amendmentment gives us. As much as I despise some the the conservative laws in the US, I'm still proud of the fact that we support freedom of speech in some of the most extreme cases.
In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide.
Suicide and sedition: the only crimes where those who suceed aren't prosecuted.
--
Free iPod? Try a free Mac Mini
Or a free Nintendo DS, GC, PS2, Xbox
Wired article as proof
Governments everywhere legislate what is and what is not objectionable material. This is just part of australia saying that this is material that they do not want published in australian websites. Your views may differ as to whether it is right to or not, but it is not unreasonable for governments to object to sites showing how to do illegal things.
Different in terms of why it is objectionable, but the same reasons lie behind why governments legislate against kiddy pr0n, pull down sites with bomb making instructions, incitements for hatred (in many countries).
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
They can sue http://livejournal.com/, hosting the most suicidal entries known to man.
... will not hinder free speech"
"Justice Minister Chris Ellison says the laws
Well I'm sorry, but I don't think you can take down a site that says "Life sucks, kill yourself" without violating free speech.
...now where's something poisonous when you need it.
Good thing Maddox doesn't live in Australia. Afterall, I think his sucicide ideas are the best:
How to kill yourself like a man
Before posting any more 'funny' jokes, try reading the article first: The law is about those inciting or promoting suicide, not those committing it. It also sounds perfectly sensible to me, why should any psycho be free to push desperate people kill themselves in the name of free speech? Depression needs careful approach and support, not some idiot advising you to suicide.
The biggest issue is actually assisting suicide, which, unlike suicide itself, can be a repeat offence!
Clippy is obviously guilty.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
I can see it now...
argh, why can't people leave others alone? If they feel miserable enough to consider suicide, then respect their decision. you don't always know the whole story behind it, so just automatically saying "oh dont kill yourself, get professional help" goes in one ear and out the other. Seriously, I just ignore the default-talking-out-of-suicide talks because they're unbelievably redundant and irritating. Save yourself the trouble.
When I go through my suicidal phases, what helps most is talking to close friends who have dealt with similar issues, especially if they listen to you ranting (which really feels good). Not $random_person telling me it's a bad idea, blah blah.
Sorry for ranting.
Die! Die! Die! is part of lyrics of a song. Or so the denfence claims.
(Metalica before they became obvious money grubing pussies)
What I didn't know is what methods would assuredly kill me. Or, if they wouldn't necessarily kill me, leave me without lasting harm. The Internet told me. There are all kinds of websites out there talking about the various suicide methods, with recommendations. You can easily order Final Exit, or even find the text online.
Moreover, the Internet provides knowledge for where to obtain lethal substances, and substances that put you in a state making it easier to kill yourself.
I am quite confident that I would never have attempted suicide if I didn't have access to the Internet. The method I chose would not have even occurred to me if I hadn't read about it online. Indeed, it was the most recommended method on the net, and I wouldn't have thought it.
So I think it's obvious that the Internet lowers the bar to committing suicide.
But that said, it's ridiculous to consider sensoring this information. There are the obvious free speech issues which I'm sure other people here will discuss. What I want to note, however, is that for me, research suicide options was also therapeutic. People think how terrible it is that someone would contemplate suicide, but they don't realize how much thinking about it can relieve the pain that you're in. I could lose all control of my thought processes, spiarling downward, but when I started imagining shooting myself, I felt *better*. In this way, the research I did on suicide was also soothing. Instead of curling up in a ball on the floor, I could focus my mind on this subject, and this subject alone, and I would calm down and feel relief.
So it's a two-edged sword. The knowledge I gained on the Internet did enable my attempt. But being able to research that material made me feel better, better than I would have otherwise.
Final disclaimer: All happy people are more or less the same, but all depressed people are depressed in their own way. So this is my experience only. (Yes, I've been doing well for some time--thanks for asking!)
"My girlfriend's got sodium laureth sulfate hair."
yes, the politicians finaly got sick of being told to drop dead so they legistlated against it.
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
If you need ideas on how to kill yourself, then you don't really want to die. As a Roman Empire era judge said to someone convicted of the capital crime of being a Christian because he refused to deny he was one, "I have better things to do than help you commit suicide. Are there not cliffs enough in the world for you to do that without me?" (paraphrased)
"The short article tells us how, under legislation to be introduced this week"
that says to me that it's just legislation that will be introduced and hasn't become a law yet.
not that i claim any familiarity with the australian system of government, but here in the states when new legislation is introduced it's not that amazing, it's if it passes in the house and senate and passes the president's veto power that it becomes law...
can anyone shed further light?
And if there's one thing that guy's taught us, it's that Australia is full of critters that will happily kill you if you just piss them off a little. It's probably much easier to kill yourself off there than it is here in the states (Although we also have our share of poisonous nasties.) Most of the methods you can find on the internet are much more pedestrian than "Walk down to the local river, get a drink and be eaten by a crocodile." Now THAT's a great way to go, eh? Just make sure it gets you by the head and not by a leg or something...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
They are just saying their citizens and coporations should not be promoting the material. It is not a difficult law to enforce. If company X is selling pills to kill yourself with, and providing instructions on how to use them, Australia will fine them.
or else!
Given the replies and personal email I got, I wanted to specify something :
I wrote "I had" becase it's over.
I'm cured.
I was having a bad time: I lost a job which I actually hated, and I also considered changing my life.
I then had the following strategy : Waiting until the temperature would fall below -10C and sleep naked in my balcony.
The cold came... but too late.
I did not want to end it abruptly because I am married with a delicious woman and I wanted it to look like an accident.
Finally, I decided to perform my auto-therapy.
I am creative, you might not lik what I do but I have fun doin it.
I recorded a rock album which is described here and available (for free) here.
My advice ?
Spit the anger and the fear. You'll end fearless, stronger and alive !
God bless you.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Great idea. Because of the amazing way the internet works (information only the learned nerds trully understand,) no one needs to take any responsibility for anything on the net. Great thinking here guys. As for whether death is a good way to solve unhappiness? I guess the happy and unhappy would have different views on this so I'm not sticking my nose into this one, suffice it to say that if the Australian's are happy with a law stating suicide is illegal, then this legislation is nothing more but a natural extension to that law. For those of you less learned in ways of lands beyond the US. There is no automatic guarantee of freedom of speech in Australia (much like Britain.) As such, discussion about the benefits and pitfalls of freedom of speech is best reserved for elsewhere.
First consider that (maybe I am being a bit simplistic here) federal legislation starts with the government. Then look at this picture. Then consider that the federal leader is the short guy left of the middle up the front. Yes, the funny-looking one who doesn't quite qualify to enter a serious baldness contest. Yes, he's the captain of the team pictured.
Would you expect anything different?
---------- Jaani.net -- internet law and technology
Timothy says "In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide." Not true. Sure we'd try to stop you, like all civilised cultures. But if you don't succeed, it's not an offence - just sad. IMHO, Australia has more freedom than America to live our life as we choose. We don't have to act as christians just to fit in with the majority.
please dont assume what our politicians are thinking
I presume you meant "please don't assume that our politicians are thinking"...
Blank until
Well for those of you whom are morbidly interested you can go here.
Someone sent the link to me a while back, interesting read.
Also, it is interesting to note that in Japan, if you commit suicide using the "jump in front of commuter train" method, your FAMILY gets the fines if you succeed (and you do if you fail). The fines consists of the clean up costs, any property damages you cause, and some amount to cover "the inconvience to other commuters" fine on top of it. This apparently works fairly well in Japan, but then it is the "shame" it bring to the family (the Asian "face" thing, western equvilant might be "honor"), and that is a cultural thing which makes potential "jumpers" think twice.
Also...... In the United States, suicide is legal ONLY in Oregon. All other states prohibit such a thing either specifically via a Law or indirectly with some other statue prohibiting another thing that leads to suicide. Interesting read here.
In the United Kingdoms, it is not illegal to commit suicide on your own by the Suicide Act of 1961, but you may not aid someone else.
The discussion about suicides and ethanasia has been discussed to death in my philosphy class, so I will not go in to the moral details/discussions of it.
And finally, the obligatory Wikipedia link about Suicide and Euthanasia.
For those wondering why I look these things up, I work at a mortuary, these things are not uncommon.
... and it is only illegal to attempt suicide in one jurisdiction (of reltively small population - around 200 000)
from http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti52.pdf
"In all jurisdictions, suicide is no longer a crime and, except in the Northern Territory, the crime of attempted suicide has also been abolished. It is, however, still an offence for a person to assist another person to commit suicide or to attempt to commit suicide"
I really loathe laws that are to 'protect the vulnerable - not me you understand'.
People objecting to pornography, violence on TV. Sex education in schools etc etc. It's always to protect other people from corruption. Who are these mythical people, with cheese for brains? Nobody ever demands it's removal to protect themselves.
"Think of the children" blah blah
If you've gotten a few of those talks through your life, maybe you do have a problem. Your average person doesn't get those kind of talks, ever. Your average person also doesn't burden their friends with those kind of things. And your average person doesn't have "suicidal phases". Consider keeping a log of how often you feel frustrated with life and want to end it all. You might discover that you're spending 25% of your life being seriously depressed. Even if you don't kill yourself, that's the kind of thing that can interfere with school, career, relationships, and pretty much anything in your life.
Of course, it's one thing to be depressed or despondant because something happened (death of spouse or child), but it's another to be depressed for no reason. Depressed people might say, "I'm depressed because my life sucks." It could be that their life sucks because they're depressed a lot of the time and don't get any of the things done that usually give people satisfaction (e.g., success in work, school, relationships).
My other first post is car post.
These sites aren't about ideas, these bring together people who have suicidal thoughts. They discuss these thoughts and it can eventually develop into a group suicide.
People with suicidal thoughts need to speak to someone who can show them the good things in their life and can help them solve all their problems, they don't need to be speaking to someone who talks them into it.
I dunno. It was a big big big news event when I was growing up (I was a kid then, in junior high school). If she was in my age group, I'd say she would have copped hell at school. Australian kids (no, wait, all kids!!) in her age group weren't even born then, so chances are that they'd no more know the significance of 'Azaria' than they would know about vinyl records.
Mind you, kids can be evil little feckers, you can bet your bottom dollar that one or two will figure it out. I'd hazard a small wager that it won't be wholesale teasing though.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
...the media does not put out stories about suicide because apparently it gives ideas to people with depression. There is no legislation, it is just an industry agreement.
Have some respect for others if you want others to respect you.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
I lost all of my friends and ruined relationships I thought would, and might have, lasted forever and have pretty much retreated from the world. For about two years I went through a severe depressed episode, the whole time almost getting help here and there. I truely thought all things were lost and started to slowly kill myself with any type of controlled substance I could get my hands on.
Ok, that was a severe exaggeration, but I was binging on everything. I started to do stupid (fun) things that would later set me up for a lot of trouble until something changed. I didn't get help, I just had a conversion. It happened to be a religious conversion but it wasn't religion that saved me. Well, I went through three religions before I settled on one I liked and incorporated everything else I learned.
During all of this I realized on the side that I was going to face bad days. I was going to be depressed and that my life wasn't going to end up the way I had always dreamed (which is a understatement-I barely function). But you know, I realized that hurting everyone else was pretty petty considering if I waited it out I would feel better some day. My chance of feeling like that forever was zero; so why not just say "Fuck it" and move on?
Not only is suicide the worst way to treat depression it is never the answer to any problem. Drugs, crime, shame, anything.... it's happened to someone before, lots of people. Some of them made it out. Shit, even if you are on crack - smoke that and say fuck it and live. You won't get a chance to do it again. I'm not even going to get on a high horse and tell you to quit the pipe - that is something to live for, it's a start.
Get your Unix fortune now!
I may not be Australian, but my first thought wasn't anything to do with dingos, but why you named your daughter after the brilliant Hank Azaria (the voice of Moe/Apu/Chief Wiggum etc. in The Simpsons, Phoebe's boyfriend David in Friends and so on).
So I'm weird, ok?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Either way, it does pass. Or, it can be fixed.
"Résumé"
Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smell awful;
You might as well live.
--Dorothy Parker, 1926.
--
$tar -xvf
I wonder how much of this action in AU is related to JP suicide clubs?
"In Japan, the internet has been blamed for a spate of group suicides which appear to have been arranged in online chat rooms."
It appears that often the people facilitating these suicides are in fact sadists, who have no intention themselves of carrying through a suicide, but instead derive perverse pleasure from being instrumental in the death of another. If a similar phenomenon exists in AU, it would give the authorities an opportunity to intervene--and based on the text of TFA, this appears closer to their intent.
--
$tar -xvf
..not forgetting the blue rajah, master of cutlery. (mystery men).
The lawyer/client conferances must be some thing to see , when someone gets charged with committing suicide.
In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide.
Would some ausie enlighten me on how the former crime is prosecuted. Do they have special coffins with metal bars or something?
It is NOT illegal in Australia to attempt/commit suicide (Believe me, I would know.). I believe what the government(However misguided) is trying to do is stem the tragic suicide of young people in mostly our country areas, where suicide is the major cause of death (after car accidents) for males between the ages of 18 and 25. Yes it is silly legislation, you dont need the internet to work out how to kill yourself. BJ
In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide
So is it a capital offense to attempt to commit suicide? Does such an attempt automatically get you the death penalty?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I am rarely serious on here but here it goes:
Just two things.
1) Just recently, I think it was in Canada (not 100%), where a man informed his friends, family and police that he was going to commit suicide. This was partially a protest or way of promoting euthenseia (spelling whatever). Anyway what it came down to is that he had terminal cancer. Was going to die anyway. For sure. Very painfully. He decided to kill himself as he still had the option to. If he let himself decline due to cancer he would be fucked as at somepoint he would no longer be able to do it on his own, and (at least in this country, probably most) it would be illegel for his doctor to help him in this way. From what I read his friends/family were not thrilled with the decision, but understood, and respected that decision.
2) That said I read most of the big posts, and everyone seems to be arguing if depressed if suicide should be promoted (or help available out there to who wants it)... I think that is silly. What if you were dying from a terminal illness? That is extreemly painfull, and takes its sweet time. (Not to get into the whole euthenasia discussion) Assuming it is illegal for a doctor or someone to help you commit suicide, I think I would like to see what options would be available to me. Granted this is a very last resort and not to be taken lightly.
I think this comes down to two principles: one is the fact that death is so final. Like capital punishment mistakes can be made, and there is no recourse. The other is the fact of coupibility (again with the spelling). Basically if someone is depressed or mentaly not there, are they capable of making these decisions for themselves. While someone could also make a very logical valid arguement to end ones life due to pain and suffering. You could also argue that someone under that kind of duress is unable to think in clear and concise terms.
Anyway it is really silly to make suicide illegal that is just dumb (it may be the case in Canada as well I am not sure). I also think that censoring informaion on how to do it painlessly or quickly or whatever is also silly. I can understand that you do not want to promote it or make it an easy choice for someone, but there is still a vaild use or need for it out there. I think the smartest thing to do would be to consult with your doctor, but because of various laws and perhaps ethics, doctors may feel obligated to prevent you, inform authorities, etc.. so who knows.
Anyway it goes beyond saying that it is a more complex problem than saying suicide is bad and information about it should be banned.
Of course after all this I didn't RTFA so it may be saying that information like that should only be controlled by certain groups like doctors and such....
I would just like to think that if I was in a situation of terminal painful death suffering, with basically no life before the end anyway. That I might be able to find help to end it mercifully would be nice. My body my choice kind of thing... pro-choice I guess. Mind you I think evaluation and discussion would be needed with doctor, friends/family etc...
What a horrible discussion topic eh? Needed, but horrible just the same.
And yes ok maybe I lied about there being just 2 things...
Anyway that is my thoughts.
"If you're not [particular Christian denomination or sect], you're going to hell."
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. so I ran over and said "stop! don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?" He said, "Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. - Emo Philips
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Of course suicide is a selfish act. It is putting your own feelings of frustration, helplessness, or general lack of other options ahead of those who love you, care about you, want to help you, and generally want you to stay alive.
And of course telling someone that they should not commit suicide is selfish. It puts your own desire that a person stay alive ahead of that person's feelings of frustration and unhappiness with life.
I don't see either side as right or wrong, but both should consider the other side. The feelings of those who care about a person considering suicide should be a factor in their decision (but not the blanket "feelings" of an organization). Those feelings may be small in comparison to the prospect of carrying out the rest of a life that one considers to no longer have value. But a person making that decision has to understand that it does not just affect themself.