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P2P (More) Legal in France

A reader writes:"A french appeal court ruled yesterday in favour of somebody who downloaded about 500 movies, on the ground that those were private copies, and that he didn't redistributed them, and that a tax was payed on blank media. This sets the huge precedent that P2P is legal over there. For the details, apparently no distinction was made on the method used to download the movies (upload issues) and the famous EUCD directive was even used by the defending lawyer." You'll want the fish for this one, unless you speak French.

17 of 463 comments (clear)

  1. Precedent? by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wasnt aware that the civil law legal system france uses relied heavily on precedent...

    --
    Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
  2. Opening phrase of the article by gowen · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Un internaute
    An internaut!

    That's a seriously cool word. Better than "web surfer" or "'netter". I say we port it to English immediately.
    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    1. Re:Opening phrase of the article by Random+Web+Developer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      omfg, rustine is actually used as "patch".
      Just a couple of days ago I was trying to translate patch to a french listener (walloon actually, me being flemish/dutch).

      I just trew in rustine since that's used as a patch on a bike tire, never thought it was actually correct

      --
      Artists against online scams http://www.aa419.org/
  3. Obvious Question by goldspider · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What happened to the person from whom the movies were downloaded? He/she most certainly WAS distributing them in violation of copyright law.

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    1. Re:Obvious Question by Flakeloaf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nothing. That person wasn't distributing them, the clients were having copies made and sent to them. It's an important distinction in French & Canadian copyright law.

      --

      Am I the only one who heard Roxette to sing "I'm gonna get blitzed for some sex"?

    2. Re:Obvious Question by Technician · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He/she most certainly WAS distributing them in violation of copyright law.

      He was?

      on the ground that those were private copies, and that he didn't redistributed them

      He paid the royalty for the private copies by the tax on the blank media. The royalties were paid. That's what the court saw.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    3. Re:Obvious Question by StoneyReborn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It France & Canadian law it has been argued that P2P is not considered distribution because when downloading, you often have no choice but to upload (which would be considered distribution in many countries). It is our legal right (in Canada) to download copyrighted materials for personal use. Due in large to the fact that we pay an extra fee on every piece of media (CDs, DVDs, MP3 Players, etc) that goes towards the music industry & copyright holders.

  4. Blank media tax... by zecg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Although in this I can see (see me not judging, merely observing) the trend of French trying systematically to piss off America, there is one interesting point - the blank media tax. If people who pay for it are not allowed to download movies and burn them on taxed media, then what is its point?

    --
    .i lu doi ringos.star. xu do puku'aroroi dunli dopecaku leni virnu li'u
    1. Re:Blank media tax... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      America?
      You have to understand, that apart from some good films, music, and some OK television programmes, America is just another country to most people.
      The French don't plan their policys around whatever the law of the day is in America, any more than they plan it around the laws of larger and closer countrys like Russia or Africa.

    2. Re:Blank media tax... by uglyduckling · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If people who pay for it are not allowed to download movies and burn them on taxed media, then what is its point?

      And here's one that makes the mind boggle: I live in England. No that's not makes the mind boggle, this is: what happens if I import some taxed blank media from France, then download and burn a movies onto it? What if I downloaded the files from France? Is that legal? Does the fact that they're both European countries matter?

  5. Nice precident by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Oh, yeah, this will go over big in sharing communities. Only the leeches are legal. Pretty funny of you ask me.

    (I suppose he could have gotten them off oc the usenet, but then how did he get caught?)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  6. So how was he caught? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Interesting
    So how was he caught? Downloading without sharing is a pretty quiet activity. You're not broadcasting your library - just your search list.

    He must have downloaded a few movies from the wrong sharer (i.e. copyright enforcer). But if those files were offered for public download (to trap the unwary), how can they be illegal. Hey, you offered them. Why am I in trouble for taking what you freely offered?

    Something is missing in this story so far, and I really would be interested in hearing what it is.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  7. bittorrent by Heisenbug · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Bittorrent has an interesting impact on that equation, because it makes the relationship between uploading and downloading explicit. If I start the client, get the file, have a share ratio of one, and sign off, then how many new copies of the file exist because of my actions? Well, if I hadn't joined, the people who got the file from me would have gotten it from the people I got it from instead. Thus, by my actions exactly one new copy of the file exists: mine.

    I don't know if it stands up legally, but morally and practically, the only thing I did was to make a single copy. That's it. Makes it kind of hard to support those $5,000 damages figures for a single file, doesn't it?

  8. P2P will save Music, like DVD, like Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Did Radio kill Music? No.
    But Radio pays money only to original song authors not to recording artists.
    So how come radio doesn't kill the record Industry? Back in the day the RIAA equivalent said it would and lobbied hard to stop it.
    But no, Radio enhances music.
    Radio sells more records.
    It creates a bigger market.

    People swapping music create a bigger market, everyone listens to more music than they own, if they like it then they buy more like it and go and see the band play and buy merchandise.
    In a free market, some businesses fail when they are uneconomic. The RIAA is a Government Enforced Cartel.

    P2P file sharing increased CD sales, it brought the CD single market to life, the Figures for the UK are crystal clear.
    Even if the "Industry" tries to use the world economic downturn at the time of Napster to hide the facts in the US - they know the truth P2P generated a massive resurgence of intrest in music and thus CD sales.
    What is killing music is Overpriced CDs and I-Tunes, Restricted Radio Play, Clear channel owning the venues, Lawsuits against fans, Overcontrol of Musicians, Unfair Contracts and Low pay for Musicians, insanely overpriced 'samples' destroying the vitality of rap, house and ambient, etc. etc.

    How come they can do all this in a Free Market Economy? Because they are a cartel with a Government Enforced Monopoly.

    Video was a lifeline to the Movie Industry yet they tried to outlaw the video recorder.

    P2P will save music, stop couterfieting for cash not fans sharing for free.

    Gorillaz rocketed to number 1 Album sales, largely attributed to the pre-publicity of fileswapping.

    Fans are loyal they will support things, don't know how to make money out of being famous - then get out of the way of the up and coming.

    Fan = Someone who Fanatically supports something or is into it.

  9. Who gets the royalty taxes? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Interesting
    What I always wondered is who gets the royalty taxes on blank media, anyway? The government collects them, obviously, but who do they give it to? Is there a list somewhere? Is there a form that I can use to sign up for my cut of this tax if I'm in the entertainment business? Where does the money go?

    In France or otherwise.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  10. Re:Freedom Court by jd · · Score: 3, Interesting
    In the 1950s, the US argued that any US citizen detained overseas had the right to see a member of the US consulate, and pushed for an international treaty making such arrangements law.


    Earlier this week, the US decided to renounce and reject the treaty, on the grounds that other countries were trying to use it to gain access to their citizens detained in the US.


    Apparently, international law is for the convenience of America to impose its views on other nations and woe betide those who try to use it the other way round. International Law, according to the current administration, is a one-way street, with US checkpoints at both ends, each of which has the right to fire at will at anything that moves.


    The last time things got this bad for any nation, England passed a law stating that NO king may ever again hold the name of John. Now, that is seriously pissed off.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  11. Re:Logic jump by mrogers · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Actually, if downloading is legal then uploading might be too, thanks to an exception in the European Copyright Directive that fans of P2P kept rather quiet about while they were protesting the rest of the law:
    (33) The exclusive right of reproduction should be subject to an exception to allow certain acts of temporary reproduction, which are transient or incidental reproductions, forming an integral and essential part of a technological process and carried out for the sole purpose of enabling either efficient transmission in a network between third parties by an intermediary, or a lawful use of a work or other subject-matter to be made. The acts of reproduction concerned should have no separate economic value on their own. To the extent that they meet these conditions, this exception should include acts which enable browsing as well as acts of caching to take place, including those which enable transmission systems to function efficiently, provided that the intermediary does not modify the information and does not interfere with the lawful use of technology, widely recognised and used by industry, to obtain data on the use of the information. A use should be considered lawful where it is authorised by the rightholder or not restricted by law.
    IANAL but my reading of this is that if downloading a file is legal, then uploading an unmodified copy of the file in order to enable someone else to perform a more efficient download (BitTorrent anyone?) is also legal.