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Major PC Makers Adopt Trusted Computing Schema

An anonymous reader wrote to let us known about a News.com story regarding so-called trusted computing, and its adoption by the major PC manufacturers. From the article: "The three largest computer makers--Dell, Hewlett-Packard and IBM--have started selling desktops and notebooks with so-called trusted computing hardware, which allows security-sensitive applications to lock down data to a specific PC." Interestingly, while Microsoft is said to be behind the idea support won't be forthcoming for trusted computing until they release Longhorn next year, making this a hardware-vendor lead initiative.

13 of 418 comments (clear)

  1. The end is coming and people want it!?!? by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At the time, digital-rights advocates raised concerns that the technology could be used by software makers and media companies to control people's PCs, putting Microsoft on the defensive. The dispute even led the software giant to change the name of its technology from Palladium to the Next-Generation Secure Computing Base, or NGSCB.

    And yes, we all know that now that the name of their security technology is different Microsoft can't "team up" with the hardware makers to lock down PCs to a single OS. It wouldn't be in the best interests of either side to do that right? Oh wait, MSFT already has contractual agreements that basically force this to happen why not take it a step further and make people not only pay extra for the OS pre-installed/distributed w/the PC but also make them have no choice but to run it once they get it.

    I love the wording in the article... Oooh it's the hardware vendors taking the initiative and not Microsoft (like Microsoft is always at the forefront of technology or something). Is that supposed to make me feel better that the entire computing platform will be locked down leading to the end of free distribution of anything, the Internet as we know it, etc?

    Didn't Ben Franklin say something about this? Yeah.

    1. Re:The end is coming and people want it!?!? by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh you can boot Linux but you won't be using it in any useful way. IIS will dominate the webservers in the world because their's will run on the "secure global information network".

      Linux will fall into worthless obscurity because it will run on one of the various unsecure networks that the majority of computer users will never "want" to see. After all the only people that use unsecure computing are terrorists and those that are against the RIAA/MPAA/MSFT/GOV metroplex.

    2. Re:The end is coming and people want it!?!? by demachina · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dude, if you are forming your world view based on the alternate reality that is South Park you are the one with issues here :)

      South Park shreds everyone equally, its only fair they give liberal college grads and hippies equal time. Its comedy, satire, parody....laugh.

      Not sure I said they are out to "get us". The corporate part of the combine are out to milk us for all the profit they can squeeze out of us. The government part is out to exert the maximum control over us that they can get away with(i.e. as much as we let them), and most of them are out to steer pork to their rich friends and corporate benefactors. When they retire from politics most of them rake in fat paybacks from the companies and people they bestowed the pork upon.

      Just go back and read the history of the Medicare "reform" bill, the one with the supposed drug benefit for seniors. It was written by drug, healthcare, and insurance companies for their benefit, not for the benefit of seniors or tax payers. They basically bought the Medicare adminstrator, he was job shopping with these very companies while the bill was being negotiated, with White House permission though it was a blatant conflict of interest. He intentionally concealed the cost of the bill, threatened his subordinates who wanted to give the real number to Congress, and outright lied when he told everyone it would be $400 million which was exactly the highest figure that would pass Congress. As soon as it passed the Bush adminsitration admitted it would really be at least $500 billion. A month or two ago it was jacked up to $720 billion. There is in fact no limit on how much it will cost because the drug companies told Congress to add a clause forbidding Medicare from negotiating fair prices for the drugs it buys as part of the drug benefit. The drug companies can charge as much as they feel like and will. Don't be surprised when it really kicks in the Republican's will declare Medicare in a fiscal crisis and either jack up our payroll taxes or cut benefits.

      If you think corporations don't control the American government at this point you are either naive, clueless or not paying attention.

      I doubt the corprate/government combine is going to take the net to trusted computing suddenly, it will probably happen slowly and gradually so no one freaks. But you just have to look at Slashdot to see that governments/corporations are in full scale war against bittorrent and p2p, the NSA is getting geered up to spy on everyone, not just those outside America.

      Seems to me its a good idea to take advantage of all the goodness that is wireless and mesh and at least start building community networks that retain some freedom. Fact is the Internet and your beloved giant telecom company ISP's and government are going to do no nothing but charge more, outlaw more and allow less and less as time goes by.

      --
      @de_machina
  2. How about... by turtled · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about trusted users? The computers aren't the problem, it's the users. It takes a confident voice to say, I'm person X and I am working on the mainframe, I need your username and password. Big words like mainframe scare people. People can't be trusted.

    --
    "I cannot think of any need in childhood as strong as the need for a father's protection." -- Sigmund Freud
  3. Re:Your computer won't trust you by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't care about that mp3 file, or that movie.

    I care about a future where I am still able to download, modify and share OSS software.

    If executables have to be validated and signed for trustworthyness, then everyone will need to compile their own.

    The "legit" version of firefox may work, but modify the source and compile your own, and it won't play in your windows system. Don't even think of taking it to your friends' house.

    (somebody please tell me I am wrong about this)

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  4. Locking data to a PC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... is bound to be a pain in the arse if you get a new PC.

    I suspect that the idea is that you'd use hardware-based encryption (which must be optional, otherwise general removable media would be worthless) and the OS would be expected to support it through some service layer. But anything it does in hardware should be emulatable in software. So, the solution is only truly useful if all parties agree to play nice. That seems to be a ludicrous expectation.

    It seems to me that the strategy is wrong. There's no mechanism that isn't ultimately circumventable, so simply eliminate the complex hurdles and work such that there's nothing to circumvent and no reason to do so (change the model of how you operate).

  5. Re:Your computer won't trust you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Notice the "safety in numbers" flocking together of these vendors. None of them dare take such a step alone, because they know damned well that the publicity will be bad... and people won't buy their hardware. But put together and nice consortium of the largest hardware makers... and boom, everything's ok and fuck the consumer since he no longer has much choice.

  6. not a big deal really... by havaloc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...this is something that businesses want (ones that already control your computing environment, like at work), and I really don't see it being aimed at the typical consumer.
    I would also say that there will always be a market for open computers. The market always has ways around this.

  7. Balkanization by Concern · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know how thoroughly we've all digested it yet, but open source has arrived, and in addition to changing what people expect of their software, it has raised the bar considerably for corporations like Microsoft. It is already eating their breakfast in the server space, and it is growing to the point where in a few more years there is potential to threaten their client desktops as well, starting with businesses and other large, lucrative deployments. We as an industry are starting to recognize, and ultimatly demand, the benefits of freedom.

    On the one hand I like Microsoft buying into the wild-eyed "Alamo" mentality of the content trust, trying to arm wrestle every customer for control, because the more aggressive they get with Digital Restrictions Management, the more it will drive everyone into the arms of competitors, including open and free software.

    I wish I could say I thought trusted computing was doomed to fail, but frankly I think it can be considerably successful. If the end result is that your computer is not managed by you, and 3rd parties like Microsoft can take the XBox busines model (and probably, simplicity of interface) deeper into PC territory, this is probably a relief for a variety of consumers beleaguered with "general purpose" computing and all that it entails, viruses, spyware, etc. Better software architecture could solve their problems, but outside control can solve it almost as well.

    I guess what will ultimately happen is balkanization, as more aggressive attempts at controlling the platform will split consumers into low and high ends. At the low end, the "game console" converges into a media system and a simple home computer, where every application is trusted and the vendor is the gatekeeper. They'll be happier because, like video consoles today, the hardware is cheap and the costs are deferred into the software and services. At the high end, the general purpose PC that is currently a staple in the home will fade into niche status - a tool for hobbyists and professionals. What fills the void in between, in the end, is hopefully a free-software-based system that is simple enough for all consumers to use, that provides them with an alternative to commercial products, perhaps marketed by a white knight corporation much as IBM has taken free software to the server world.

    --
    Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
  8. This won't work... by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Look how many people rejected region coding on DVDs. They just buy Far East-sourced players that ignore the region coding (or can easily be switched to do so) and someone will produce non-TC computers if there's the same demand.

    I think MS and Intel have underestimated people's determination not to be shafted by The Man.

    --
    When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
  9. Re:This doesn't have to be controlled by Microsoft by pentalive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When trusted computing was a USB chip that the os could ignore, I did nothing - my os did ignore it.

    When the trusted computing chip was needed to run Windows, I did nothing, I did not run windows.

    When the trusted computing chip checksummed the bios, I did nothing, I could still boot linux.

    When the trusted computing chip could lock out the bios or any OS not signed I did nothing...

    my computer no longer worked.

  10. Not gonna happen, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't know what country you live in, but in the USA our laws are made by corporations. If "pirate networks" gain in popularity, they will be outlawed and people who promote them or run them will be put in jail.

  11. Whats the difference between this and by whois · · Score: 3, Insightful

    hardware dongles? Or DVD CSS for that matter?

    You might say "but but but but but but" this is going to be different, more secure, stronger.

    Or something. But you're still going to be selling the public hardware, that they control. Hell, some of these computers will never be accessing the internet or any network at all. How will you control what they do after you turn them into the hands of the customer?

    You made hardware dongles for expensive programs, they were broken. You made hardware copy protection for console game platforms, it was broken (even when games were shipped as a cartridge, eventually people made cloners)

    You've made DVD players you thought were unbreakable, unleashed them on the masses, then they were broken, so to spite everyone you created new laws to try to stop people from doing it (DMCA)

    You created directTV and dish network. They're hacked. And before that? Satallite TV was scrambled, but there were descramblers.

    ANY hardware based "encryption" or "dongle" or "trusted computing initiative" is security through obscurity. Do you think every person who ever worked for all these conglomerate companies will be able to keep a secret?

    The first person who finds out you use pins 1 and 6 on the chip to pass keying information will end up leaking it to the public. Said public will start watching those pins and find out what needs to be sent to "ok" a program running.

    So you tell me your "dongle" is smack dab in the middle of the CPU, no sniffing possible?

    Someone will just realease the keys then. It's only a matter of time. In the meantime, you're just blowing smoke up the asses of all the customers you have who want this product, and pissing off all the customers who don't want this product.

    Give it a rest. PC's were pretty cool until you started breaking them. If you make them too hard to use, the world as a whole will find something new to play with.

    HP is already on the fritz because they've merged too many times and found out they can't be the next IBM. Imagine if everyone stops buying from you and starts buying from a toaster company?