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Open Source As Legal Time Bomb

Hwyman writes "TechWorld is reporting on the latest attack on open-source software by the Microsoft-backed Alexis de Toqueville Institution (ADTI). Many here will remember ADTI's previous assertion that Linux Torvald was NOT the true father of the Linux kernel. Taking the stance that OSS is in conflict with IP law, ADTI president Kenneth Brown states, 'After a brief glance at much open source software development, it becomes readily apparent that a number of open source practices directly conflict with best practices associated with protecting intellectual property.' With references like 'open sores software,' it's easy to believe that ADTI might be somewhat biased."

17 of 372 comments (clear)

  1. Not serious journalism or research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I doubt if anyone takes these people seriously.
    If anyone does, well, they're just not too bright to start with.

  2. Biased, with a point by nurb432 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While they may be biased, and slant their findings, the concept of 'a problem' is valid.

    Even if nothing ever comes to light from IP/patent problems, it can ( and is ) keeping some companies away from adoption of anything open source out of fear of lawsuits.

    Remember, even if you win, the fight can easily cost you enough to put you out of business..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Biased, with a point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > it can ( and is ) keeping some companies away from adoption of anything open source out of fear of lawsuits.

      And while they're doing that, they're losing $$$ to the companies that DO leverage FS/OSS to do it better, cheaper.

      The "Boo-hoo -- don't use FS/OSS!" is going to fly about as well as "Boo-hoo -- don't buy foreign cars!"

    2. Re:Biased, with a point by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As with many other things, Let The Market Decide.

      If there are businesses that are too afraid and meek to even explore OSS, it's quite possible that their competitors will find that edge and beat them in the marketplace (assuming, as I do, that OSS does provide a competitive edge). The least a business should do is to examine what the risks really are, instead of being buffaloed by the likes of Ken Brown.

      On the other hand, there will still be companies that develop proprietary software, and they'll have to find their place in the new ecosystem. Many of them already are. There's room for both models.

      The same goes for nations. If a country allows patents to stifle innovation*, as we're seeing here in the U.S., then other countries will step up to the bat and be happy to take our place.

      *I'm not against patents in principle, but it's clear that 1) Software patents are not a good thing for the most part, and 2) Our current patent system in the U.S. is broken and not creating an environment for innovation.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    3. Re:Biased, with a point by Vellmont · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True, but IP/patent problems are a concern with ALL software, not just open source. If you don't think IP theft happens in corporate software, think again. There's been several very public lawsuits where code theft from one company to another happened. Patents are just ammunition to attack or defend yourself against other companies. All the Open Source community needs is its own patent ammunition to protect itself.

      Even MS had some issues with developers using non-licensed tools to create.. sound files I think it was. We only find out the issues that go public. How many IP/patent issues do we never hear about because of the closed nature of closed-source software and private companies?

      Pure ADTI bias aside, I think this is the most dishonest thing about this article. Open Source will likely have to solve the problems differently than private companies, but the issues aren't a whole lot different.

      --
      AccountKiller
  3. I agree... but have to disagree. by Slartibartfast · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the AdTI were in any way objective, I would welcome their criticism. But, having seen their lies many, many times over the past couple of years, I know that it is hopeless. It is one thing to leverage criticism, but someone whose sole interest is to see the demise of Linux is not someone I am going to allow to influence -any- of my corporate decisions.

  4. Oh my gosh! by Noryungi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You mean... You mean... Microsoft has not realized yet that FUD does not work against Open Source? Wow. I am shocked, shocked!

    Let's see what happened in the last few days:


    What's next? SCO will publish another inane series of press releases on its latest strategic re-deployment?

    It's FUD, people. Nothing new here. Move along. Film at 11, and could the last person out of the building please shut down the lights? Thanks.

    Sheeesh. They should have figured it out by now. What do they teach MBAs these days anyway?

    Seriously, though, this is another attempt by a really worried company to smear the competition. A clue for Microsoft: it did not work for IBM. It won't work for you.
    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  5. No I didn't read it, but ... by I+don't+want+to+spen · · Score: 4, Insightful
    " ... a number of open source practices directly conflict with best practices associated with protecting intellectual property ..."

    ... surely that's the whole reason its called open source?

    --
    Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
  6. Liars can still tell the truth. by Tiger4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately there is a point here. The non-traceability of the Open Source process leaves any given product open to contamination from copyrighted/patented IP. Most projects don't have tight checking of who did what, and they definitely don't know where the contributor got the input. That is an invitation for trouble. Worse, a project could have an "IP bomb" placed inside it by an agent of a less than scrupulous SCO, er... proprietary company that wants to stir up trouble later.

    On the good side, it is a problem that is easily fixed. Traceability of the code base back to the contributor can be implemented, but it means some sort of centralized repository AND use of good tracking tools. IMO, no major distribution, and definitely no kernel, should leave the foundry without knowing who touched it.

    --
    Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    1. Re:Liars can still tell the truth. by laird · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "The non-traceability of the Open Source process leaves any given product open to contamination from copyrighted/patented IP."

      This claim gets the real world situation backwards.

      All major open source projects retain a complete and precise development history through use of a a source code repository (e.g. CVS). This source code repository is open to public inspection, so anyone who wishes can determine the exact time and submitter of every line in that project. This has the effect of discouraging cheating, because the cheating is easy to detect, and the perpetrator is easily identified.

      Proprietary software, on the other hand, may not have such a record o contributions, and even if one exists, it's certainly not open to public inspection (short of a lawsuit). So if you question the origin of some aspect of a proprietary system, you have to ask the company (i.e. sue them) for the information that you want. This is a bit of a catch-22, since you can't provide evidence of cheating until after you sue them in order to reveal the evidence.

      It's certainly true that someone could illegally submit code that they don't own into an open source project, but the same is true for a proprietary project. And if someone thinks that their IP has been incorporated into an open source project, they can easily inspect the project's source code repository, and determine where the code came from and when, which should clarify the situation (and if someone submitted code illegally, smack them and remove the code from the project).

      The only case where there's a problem is with proprietary code bases, where it's very difficult to determine whether IP has been illegally used, and if so it's extremely difficult to determine the source of the code.

      Note that despite the theoretical risk of commercial IP getting into Open Sourrce projects, in practice I can't think of any cases where that's been shown to have occurred (even SCO gave up making all such charges against IBM), perhaps because the open source projects are open to inspection so such cheating is discouraged, while proprietary products are revealed fairly regularly to include open source software (or illegally used proprietary software), perhaps because the perpetrators thought that nobody outside their company would see the source code, so the cheating was "safe".

      "no major distribution, and definitely no kernel, should leave the foundry without knowing who touched it."

      You should be happy, because that's already the case for open source software. If the same were true of proprietary software, then we could put the whole issue to bed.

  7. Re:This whole thing is ludicrous by symbolic · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Give someone a computer, some time, and some programming skills, and they can empower themselves for FREE - that is, without compensating anyone else that somehow manages to lay claim to what they've created. They can also decide to empower others by sharing what the've created. How can any law sanely deny someone what seems to me, to be such a fundamental freedom?

  8. Why feed the troll? by orin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Posting this on Slashdot is just feeding the ADTI troll. Effective advocacy isn't about dealing with every troll lobbed your way. If these guys really had a legal time bomb they'd use it as a basis litigate. It isn't as though people today ever really show restraint when they think they have a cause (however dodgy) that will stand up in court.

  9. Best of Show by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "best practices associated with protecting intellectual property"

    Like frivolous patents, astroturf, monopoly lobbying, and, most important, funding the AdTI. Yep, Linux and most "open source" projects don't do any of that stuff.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  10. Re:They don't just lie about Linux. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why play their game? Closed source by it's nature is competitive. Why does everyone feel a burning need to prove that linux is superior. Don't play these games.

    Lets not fight, use and develop linux, and leave the fools to use inferior closed source products.

  11. Re:This whole thing is ludicrous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because most law makers are interested in controlling power. People can't just go around haphazardly GIVING empowerment. And if they have something worthy, then someone wants to control it by whatever ridiculous means they can think of.

    Rhetoric is a dangerous weapon and we should be cautious. If they say it often enough, people really will begin to believe it despite it being completely preposterous.

  12. Re:Alexis of Tocqueville Instituion: our mission by rewt66 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, it's a bit worse than that. If you're named after Alexis de Tocqueville, and you're in favor of "civil liberties, political equality, and economic freedom and opportunity", but you're against open source, you must be...

    Misnamed. And lying about what you stand for.

    It's more like someone who claims to be speaking for the Democrats talking about how the unions are damaging businesses...

  13. If de Toqueville were alive. by puppetluva · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If Alexis de Toquevill were alive and realized what these shitheads were doing in his name, he'd probably barf out his heart.

    Here's a quote from the real Alexis de Toqueville about the tendencies of American's to help each other out:
    "I must say that I have seen Americans make great and real sacrifices to the public welfare; and I have noticed a hundred instances in which they hardly ever failed to lend faithful support to one another."

    Sounds pretty different from the message of these bought-off scumbags.