Slashdot Mirror


Meshing Developmental Evolution and Technology

Jerry23 writes "IT Conversations has free audio of a very provocative talk by futurist and developmental systems theorist, John Smart. He weaves a big-picture narrative featuring developmental evolution, technological acceleration, computational autonomy, the emergence and behavior of human social systems, why prediction has such a poor history, the unique growth properties of Information and Communication Technology and the limitations of biotech, finally culminating in his case for the inevitability of digital personality capture and a ubiquitous Linguistic User Interface. Among many other things, he asks 'What will Windows (and the Google Browser) of 2015 look like?'"

22 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. Too Limited by Gogogoch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Forget what MS Windows and Google will look like in 2015. What will they look like in 2215?

    For an answer read anything by Ian M Banks

    1. Re:Too Limited by Gogogoch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Oops, typo. I should have said Iain M Banks .

      He is just brilliant - totally reinvented, or is that reinvigorated, SF. You don't believe me? Try "Consider Phlebas", "Excession", or "Look to Windward"..

    2. Re:Too Limited by andy753421 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wouldn't be surprised neither google or Microsoft still exist in 2215. If they are around they probably won't be that important anymore. If we take an example from the past, what were the most important companys 200 years ago? Probably some farm equipment company, or a ship builder. As much as we think that computers are the thing of future, by 2215 their will probably be some totally different technology that's even more important. There's always some new technology such as 'steam trains' or 'automobiles' or 'computers' or 'the printing press' but it's always changing, It seems a little vain to say that computers will be any different. They'll still be around but they wont be the 'new thing' anymore.

    3. Re:Too Limited by tomsuchy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can't believe you put "Consider Phlebas" first! "Player of Games" is much more accessible for the novice Banks reader; "Consider Phlebas" might turn people off, because it is rather dry, and really only provides a biased "outsider's" view of the Culture. Admittedly, "Player of Games" makes the Culture look like a bunch of deceitful pricks (the ending, with Imsaho, which appropriately enough means "blow it up" in Arabic). Excession is probably the best of the three you identified, (and is the first one I read from him). Let's not even bring up "Use of Weapons"...

      I had my wife start with Player of Games, and she was hooked and read two or three of his... But what REALLY got her hooked on sci-fi was Dan Simmons, Hyperion Cantos... and since then she reads all of my recommendations (like Vinge), but she always compares everyone to Simmons, her first.

      Now, she's reading Dune, and loves it, after which she'll probably go either back to Simmons, or take a recommendation from me (and I'm going to say Peter F. Hamilton).

      Sorry about going WAY off-topic here, but I can't help it. All I read is sci-fi these days, and had I some mod points, I would've modded you up instead, just for mentioning Banks.

      Anyone got any other good recommendations?

      -Tom

      --
      this isn't a sig. i type this (including the two dashes), every time i post, just to make it look like a sig.
    4. Re:Too Limited by timeOday · · Score: 2, Interesting
      people born in 2005 could live for 210 years.
      Nobody can say for sure, but I doubt it. I think a very lucky person born any time in the past in a stable society could have lived for 90 years. Today we have drastically increased the percentage of people who live about that long, and thus increased "longevity." But I don't think we've extended the maximum much at all. If you tracked the record for "longest lifetime to date" over the past 1000 years, I doubt it has increased by even 25%.
  2. From the summary: by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 2, Interesting
    'What will Windows (and the Google Browser) of 2015 look like?'

    Assuming that Windows is still around in 2015. To be honest, I don't think it will be at the rate it's going. Then again, that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

  3. Singularity by PxM · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is a good time as any to mention Vinge's Singularity. The main topic is AI, but he also talks about IA or Intelligence Amplification. The DM in the article is a type of IA for communications systems between people. It would merge the useful parts of online communications such as active logging without the problematic impersonal problems that are sometimes caused. This gets extended further when people are connected 24/7 and they have the ability to treat the real world and the wired world much more similarly

    --
    Want a free iPod?
    Or try a free Nintendo DS, GC, PS2, Xbox. (you only need 4 referrals)
    Wired article as proof

  4. Technological SIngularity by bstadil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Google Technological Singularity M or use the Wikipedia link. Speculating on anything after machine intelligences starts improving itself is futile. ETA 2060

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
    1. Re:Technological SIngularity by Saeger · · Score: 3, Interesting
      ETA 2060

      Ray Kurzweil, Eliezer Yudkowsky, Hans Moravec, and many other credible thinkers put their conservative extrapolation to Singularity much earlier: About 2030.

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
  5. Windows in 2015 by zymano · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hopefully by 2015 there will be 'other' alternatives to windows.

    Maybe the billion linux os' can get together and make everything seamless by then.

    If not there will be Haiku OS.

  6. Key breakthrough: the Intentional Stance by G4from128k · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One key breakthrough will be to give computers the ability to take an intentional stance (short definition or longer essay) with regard to users. If Google could infer why I am searching instead of just what I am searching, it would be able to do a much better job. This would move from search-as-data-retrieval to search-as-intelligent-dialog.

    I'm not sure if this can happen by 2015, but it seems like a key goal that is much more important than adding "Genuine People Personalities" to computers

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Key breakthrough: the Intentional Stance by quokkapox · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I agree, integrating feedback from real humans is badly needed to improve search results. For instance, we know Google can't tell if you clicked a link in the search result page directly, but it can learn from how people behave as they hit the cache for different resulting links. If you hit the cache for result #1, and then quickly back out of that page and hit result #3, and then your session ends, or you revise your query, Google (and the other search engines) need to be able to learn from your behavior, and similar behavior exhibited by other humans.

      They're probably working on that. And they, unlike microsoft, have the software to run the massive computations required to implement this type of machine learning. That would be my 20% project, anyway.

      --
      it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
    2. Re:Key breakthrough: the Intentional Stance by st1d · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not sure I want to see this carried through to its entirety. While it sounds good on the surface, it's important to consider the potential for utter failure. Consider the following hypothetical example:

      I'm searching for something on Google, say a fix for a PC I'm working on. The reason I'm working on it is because I'm interested in a career in IT, and building my skills both in repair and customer relations. Therefore, logically and based on previous searches, Google knows that I am interested not only in the fix, but also in any career information related to the type of work I am doing at the moment.

      Of course, based on numerous other searches (perhaps even neural-type equipment at that point in time), Google ascertains that part of the reason that I'm interested in the IT job market is because I'd like to own a nice car, a nice house, a few "toys", attract a brillant goddess, raise a few kids and give them the things I never had as a kid, own various pieces of vacation property, and retire to a healty, long-lived life, full of happiness and the finer things in life, leaving a quality legacy that the entire world looks up to and respects for all time.

      Moral of the story? Google already has implemented your suggestion. If you go to Google, type in your search item, and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky", you'll get the same results as "intentional stance" would provide, taken to the limit. In other words, taken to the extreme, pretty much anything is a valid search item in one way or another. :)

      Just kidding, it would be nice to have a search that found things I meant it to find. Actually, I kind of like Wikipedia's way of doing things, offering up narrowing suggestions. Google only offers one alternative, mostly to fix typos, while other engines offer up too many different "categories", instead of simply narrowing the search field to make it easier on us poor mortals.

      --
      Microsoft has just released their much anticipated hands-free cordless mouse. Warning, it may hurt a little at first.
  7. LUIs and the K-Prize by Baldrson · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Primitive LUIs exist today in interfaces like Google, but will become dramatically more powerful over the next few decades.

    I am quite excited by the confluence of advances in prize awards for technology advancement, and advances with the theory of compression. I'm convinced that if a substantial prize award can be created for dramatic advances in natural language text compression, it will lead directly to a solution to the most critical aspect of the "AI problem" -- that being the problem of the explosion of words without concomitant understanding. I had high hopes for the Internet being the new Gutenberg press leading to a new enlightenment but I'm concerned that without dramatic advances in AI to correlate the huge corpus being generated, the benefits of the new enlightenment may be too long in coming to save us from ourselves.

    My work on a legislative proposal for fusion technology prizes was picked up by one of the founders of the Tokamak program. The more recent X-Prize award has a renewed the popularity of such prizes.

    As a consequence I've been suggesting the creation of a new prize based on Kolmogorov complexity. As argued by Mahoney in "Text Compression as a Test for Artificial Intelligence":

    "The Turing test for artificial intelligence is widely accepted, but is subjective, qualitative, non-repeatable, and difficult to implement. An alternative test without these drawbacks is to insert a machine's language model into a predictive encoder and compress a corpus of natural language text. A ratio of 1.3 bits per character or less indicates that the machine has AI."

    A simple prize criterion would be for the first program producing a major natural language text corpus, with the size of the program being less than 1.3 bits per character of the produced corpus. Smaller intermediate prizes would help spur broader interest.

    1. Re:LUIs and the K-Prize by Compuser · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As I understood him, he wants to see a compression
      engine for plain text with a compression ratio
      of a bit more than 6 (assuming a simple case like
      English Ascii with 8 bits per character to begin
      with).
      Personally I have my own test: given an arbitrary
      length text in a given language the machine should
      be able to provide a valid translation into
      another language. Not just grammatically valid, but
      also complete in terms of double meanings, innuendoes,
      poetic rhythms, rhimes, historical and archaic
      phraseology, and other such things. If a machine
      can obsolete human translators (especially the
      artistic kind who can spend a lifetime to
      translate one work of Shakespeare) then it has
      intelligence.

    2. Re:LUIs and the K-Prize by Compuser · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is never a definitive translation. However
      the quality of translation can be judged pretty
      well. The point is that this excercise combines
      two crucial human traits: knowing the culture so as
      to understand what others are trying to say and
      having your own creativity (because any real
      translation must involve your own creative view
      of the text).
      Oh, and by the way, intelligence has to be judged
      against the best specimens of the human race, not
      a drunk redneck who can only moo and fart. I would
      maybe even go further and say that any artificial
      intelligence has to match up against the wit of
      the entire humanity, not just any one human.
      When we say that we have sent a man to the Moon
      we mean that a few particularly bright specimens
      did it. We measure human intelligence by its
      peaks not lows and so we should do with any AI.

  8. The purpose matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If I am looking for information, I prefer the written word. I can read much faster than some person or simulated person can talk to me.

    On the other hand, if I want to book an appointment, I prefer to deal with a secretary or simulated version thereof. "Can John meet with me next Tuesday morning." My simulated secretary talkes to his simulated secretary and the appointment is booked in both our books.

    One of my retirement projects is to take an old crank phone, put a computer into it and have it act like an old time operator. Pick up the phone: "Operator", "Phone the bookmonger." "The bookmonger has changed it's now Deb Hill. I'm ringing her now." I don't have to see the operator's face. In fact I would prefer not to.

    If you want to see what happens when you endow everything with a personality check out "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." I definitely don't need doors that thank me for using them!

  9. My Speculation by linguae · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In 2015, Linux and BSD + KDE/GNOME would probably be commonplace on most desktops, and alternate operating systems such as Plan 9 and The Hurd will finally see the spotlight, in usages such as servers, research, or learning the innings of those systems. Mac OS X will probably be OS XI or OS XII, and it will probably be an operating system for those who want something better than KDE/GNOME, as well as those who love the seamless integration between Mac hardware and the Mac OS. Windows will still exist, for the same reasons why IBM mainframes with COBOL are still running in some places.

    Finally, somebody will probably come out with a new OS that has exokernels and whatever operating system technologies in invented between now and 2015, who knows....

  10. Futures wiki by LionKimbro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You may all be interested in the TaoRiver Futures wiki.

    There's also another one developing, the WikiCities Futures wiki.

    The idea is that by combining our understandings from our respective fields, we can attempt to better understand the possibilities open to us, and the timing and dependencies behind them.

    Many other related wiki are listed on the Futures wiki WikiNode.

  11. LUInterface technology entails Personality by theDunedan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was expecting Smart to make a connection between LUI'S and Personality Capture, but if he did I missed it. It has to do with the notion that Natural Language Processing (which he pointed out is such a challenge) is naturally done by personalities. Okay, perhaps it is not a link with the "capture" part of Personality Capture, but we capture things now with computers. The link is with the "personality" part.

    Language processing is based on life experience. In order for a neural net to learn language it must have inputs such that it can understand a concept such as "select", "walk", or "win." For a computer to understand "select" might be pretty easy. The trainer could say "I select a file" while he uses a mouse to select a file. The neural net could interface with that. But more sophisticated interfaces will be required to provide the nn with "context" for less computer-like concepts. We could put the nn into a robot that walks (like recently discussed on /.), along with visual processing so that it can experience walking see other things walking. Then when it hears references to "walk" it can make the connection.

    (Yes, people who are unable to walk from infancy can speak intelligently about walking. Blind people can speak of and understand seeing. But those objections miss the point of a lack of "context input." As I understand it, a totally blind person does not know what "red" really is. (If I am misspeaking on this point, I apologize, especially to blind people or their close friends.))

    Now consider this sentence, which is spelled phonetically:

    "wonwonwonandwonwontoo"

    Pretend that you heard it spoken instead of saw it written. The proficienct English speaker would realize several things. First, she would parse that into individual words:

    "won won won and won won too"

    Then she would do a lot of fast computation work to try different parts of speech for each word such that the sentence fits semantically and grammatically into rules of English. She might then write the sentence on paper as:

    "One won one and one won two."

    And that is enough for her to understand that the sentence is a fragment of a larger text, a newpaper report on the dog show or something. This is because the sentence has a lot of ellipses in it with anaphoric references being elided. Since references must be present, there must be more text associated with the sentence. With the references put back into the sentence it would read

    "One person won one prize and one person won two prizes."

    or "one dog won one bone . . ." or something.

    The proficient English speaker would not even be thinking about "anaphoric elliptical references." She would "just know."

    All of these levels of computation go on in our brains constantly when we participate in all forms of communication. And in order for a LUI to work properly, the machine will also have to be able to do the same thing. Yet without other faculties (such as visual processing, mobility, etc.) these things can not be learned either. Hence, Linguistic User Interfaces and Personality emulation are intrinsically linked (and pretty darn tough).

    the Dunedan

  12. Past 10 years... by AlXtreme · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Okay, I'll bite. You're right that change isn't faster than it was 100 years ago, but it's not so that nothing has changed in the last 10 years.

    How about mobile phones? Wireless networking? PDA's? P2P? And this is only in our small field of ICT. 10 years ago nearly nobody had a mobile phone, now everyone and his dog has one. 10 years ago we were more or less bound to our boxes, now they are bound to us.

    If we (buzzword warning!) extrapolate this 10 years into the future, I'd expect things like implated communication devices using ad-hoc mesh networks. The real changes of the last 10 years haven't been strictly related to computers or the Internet (which, I might remind you, was conceived in the 70's), but more to how/where we communicate and exchange data.

    Naturally, you're right that we'll see the most advance in 'new' fields (as they didn't exist before, duh), however it's wrong to use the lack of change in one field to prove that change on a whole is slowing down. Besides, we may had Jurassic Park 10 years ago, but who could have imagined massive CG scenes like in RotK back then? I believe change is nearly always evolutionary, with once-in-a-lifetime revolutions.

    --
    This sig is intentionally left blank
  13. Single-metric criterion prizes by Baldrson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The M-Prize is a pretty good way of dealing with prizes whose criterion can be reduced to a single metric.

    Abstracting their prize criterion:

    Previous record: X
    New record: X+Y
    Fund contains: $Z at noon GMT on day of new record
    Winner receives: $Z x (Y/(X+Y))

    Applying this to Kolmogorov complexity (ignoring several technical details for the moment):

    S = size of uncompressed corpus
    P = size of program producing uncompressed corpus
    M = S/P

    Anytime someone demonstrates a larger M, they are awarded money according to the abstract prize criterion above.

    The only problem with it is that it doesn't include Mahoney's threshold of 1.3 bits per character for artificial intelligence.