Brazil: Free Software's Biggest and Best Friend

soneca writes "From the last two years, Brazil's president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva has turned the country into a tropical outpost of the free software movement. The government is switching from costly operating systems made by Microsoft and others to free operating systems."

Comments

More power to them

[rodgster]

US needs to follow that path.

Re:More power to them

[lasindi]

Yes, but unfortunately, that probably won't be what happens (at least for a very, very long time). If GNU/Linux becomes a major desktop OS, the beginnings of the movement will happen elsewhere. China is pushing bigtime for it, other Asian countries, Brazil, and patches of Europe. The US is where Microsoft is more entrenched than anywhere else, and it will probably be last to fall (if this change does indeed occur).

lasindi

Re:More power to them

[Zemran]

There is more reason for China etc. to switch than most people think of. Try installing Windows or Office on a machine and ignoring any text written in English. Even after you have got the OS on, when you try to install Office, if you have set the machine to Chinese (or whichever) it pops up windows in English to ask you questions. China and most other countries in this area realise that they want to be able to have an operating system that suits their needs (which Microsoft does not) and to be able to use that OS to communicate in a local as well as a global economy. Many people over here do not understand a word of English. Many educated people do but computers are now in the homes of those that do not, so they want something they can use. Linux allows them to create that OS and stay in touch with the rest of the world. Cost has nothing to do with it because as has been said elsewhere, I can get a copy of any software for 2-3 dollars per CD regardless of title. If they bring out Red Dragon Linux, or whatever, it will still cost the same as XP. The cost of bringing out tailor made versions of XP would be ridiculous, so most asian countries have got together and decided to work on their release of Linux that can be tailored to each countries needs. They know that they will be able to do the same with OO etc.

Brazil may considering the cost as they are trying to get away from the 2 dollar per CD image (no pun intended) but the same sentiment will still be there when they try to install Office. I have had Office refuse to install on a machine that no longer had English on it.

Re:More power to them

[xtracto]

Thinking about using a specific distro, I am thinking in Mandrake-Conectiva here. And here is where I think Mandrake really made a good move buying Conectiva .

As for the government decision in spending tax payers $$ in FOSS instead of a proprietary system I think is the most sensate thing a government can do.

You see, in some undeveloped countries as Mexico (mine), Brazil, there exists corruption and often people from some offices buy Adobe Acrobat (no, not the reader) or other expensive-like-software just to spend the money the government gives (so the government give them more money the next cycle). They usually use it only to create PDFs... from .DOC or things like that (yes, i saw it myself at least in Mexico).

So, at least as a tax payer, I will know that the money (at least some part of it) I am paying is ending in something specific (those Government-funded-OSS) and that, at the end, they are mine, I can use it I can destroy it I can install, uninstall and do whatever the hell I want with them.

I think that was one of the motives for the government to use OSS, as some politic (don't know who) from Brazil told to someone from Microsoft, it is not possible for the government to be "transparent" and use some proprietary software (at the end, it IS information no?).

Well... I think more countries should learn from the example. For me it is a really good move, not caring about the OSS advocacy, but about the government/political side of the coin.

Re:More power to them

[tacocat]

You're on crack right?

I don't know that the US needs to follow that path and I'm not sure I personally want the US to follow that path. Here's why:

The US will not willing choose to follow that path. They will only do it out of international/grassroots pressures.

• USA is the home of Microsoft and most of the other major players in Private Software industry.
• As such, any individual or company that chooses to use something else is a loss of market share.
• Microsoft et al has Billions to invest in the US Government to develop rules & regulations to limit, block, and discourage the incorporation of FOSS into the American market or government. FOSS has... less.
• Since the government is elected based on political contributions, there is no way to win on that front. The only alternatives are EU incentives (see Steel Tariffs of 2004) or through some kind of grassroots effort, but this is highly unlikely considering how owned grassroots methodoligies have become.

For the most part, the US Software industry will exhaust themselves financially trying to block any kind of adoption of FOSS unless they can be convinced that they can make more money with FOSS, and the "more" part is where you can't sell it.

On a more personal and light hearted note: I don't want the US to adopt Open Source because I'm enjoying a wonderful hiatus from being the Family Computer Guy (Nick Burns style) because anytime I go to someones home, I have the ability to say, "I'm sorry, I can't do anything to help you. I haven't used Windows since Windows 95b". No questions asked. It's kind of nice.

If everyone in the US adopted FOSS, say Debian (for sake of argument without financial endorsements, pick what you want), then you will have to deal with the onslaught of problems this will introduce.

• Virus writers have been steering clear of Linux because it's such a low ROI. Linux may be better but you're a fool to declare it is immune.
• Today mailing lists are more/less populated with people who have some element of Clue. If all those really fucking stupid windows users starting using the mailing lists we would all experience a lowering of our own personal IQ as the result of it.
• Personally, I enjoy the elitism. Not altogether healthy, but I can't deny it isn't there.
• Politics: Imagine the politics that will ensue if everyone is trying to get their hands into the cookie jar. Look at the UN and the Internet..
• Peer Pressure: FOSS will be pulled into some really stupid directions because of really stupid user pressures to do really stupid things. For example, "I want to install anything I want without being root all the time!" and "why can't you do (all the stupid crap) that Microsoft does (which makes them fundamentally insecure)?".
• Personally, I would avoid pushing this faster than it needs to go.

If FOSS is the Right Thing then it will eventually win. Nothing anyone can do will prevent this from happening, only delaying it. In the meantime, sit back and enjoy it for what it is.

Re:More power to them

[tacocat]

Absolutely right!

The interesting part of this is to consider the damage this will do to the American Economy. When we become the last of the olde guard, we will be in a position of catching up to the rest of the world. We haven't had to do this for a very very long time.

The Corporate America will push on this until it starts to damage the American Economy enough that they have to migrate in order to remain profitable.

We've done this before and we will do it again. Probably the best example I can think of is the 1970's automotive industry. We just decided to keep making big cars because we assumed people would buy them out of habit. The Japanese and Europeans proved us wrong by providing better products. And nothing the Big Three could do would stop it from happening. Trade tariffs delayed the process, but did not stop it.

The same will happen with software. Only this time there will be additional damage becuase the labor force will not be American in America, it will be someone else (Indian, Chinese) and we'll have to export even more money to do any business.

We are a nation in trouble.

Good

[Handbrewer]

Its great to see governments spend their taxpayers money wisely. Also it helps their trade balance positively, it makes sense in so many levels to not use Microsoft software for every other country than America, so im surprised only Norway, Germany and Brazil are seriously rolling it out. And for the projects i heard about in Norway and Germany its just a few counties. But, 5, 10 and 15 years from now i would be very surprised if Microsoft had a dominance of even more than 70% of the shipped OSes.

Re:Good

[kwoo]

Its great to see governments spend their taxpayers money wisely.

This is true, but I think there's a lot more to it than that.

What I see as the biggest benefit to government adoption of open source operating systems is that it means local demand for developers for those systems. The cost of entry for people who want to develop for the systems is low, so it's possible for more people.

Another high point is that when the government wants a skill set in the populace, it tends to be pushed a bit in schools. I would love to see the results of fifteen years of open source software use in schools in any country.

Re:This is just what open sauce needs.

[0x461FAB0BD7D2]

GPL code has already ended up in unauthorized programs in the US and other countries which recognize IP. In any case, the GPL is about copyright rather than patents, which is what your link was about. This is no reason to keep open-source products out of Brazil or any other country.

Given the president's insistence on using FOSS products, I think most people assume he will help them out if GPL copyright is violated.

I don't believe Slashdotters are against copyright, but they are against patents. I suggest you read a few of the comments Slashdotters have posted before trolling.

Why is OSS equated with Leftist ideology?

[isorox]

FTA: But the preference for open-source software has been controversial, with critics inside and outside the government saying Mr. da Silva's administration is letting leftist ideology trump the laws of supply and demand.

I really fucking hate this. This is the typical newspeak propaganda used by companies terrified of losing their stranglehold on consumers by loudly bleating "Communist" into the air in order to get support from the more paranoid fringes of society, such as politicians who get kick backs from such companies.

What Supply and Demand is this guy talking about? Does he mean to infer that all those people should remain uneducated because they can't afford to buy some bullshit company's overpriced product? Tell that to the people yourself, you cunt. Also tell them that buying Microsoft's Windows will make them even poorer than they currently are, since the only way Microsoft is ever going to sell Windows at a low price is to sell some ultra crippled piece of shit such as the Starter Edition which no one wants.

(P.S. Mods, +5 informative, thanks)

so....

[Anonymous Coward]

Something more to think about: Microsoft Office XP Standard costs $479.95.

$479.95 isn't that much in USA. I bet most of the people here make *at least* this over a week - probably much more. However, right here, getting that much money *a month* is considered more than average. The minimum wage is like 1/10th of that.

This is not to say 'the country is a poor country, boo-hoo sell us cheap software' (although it *is* a poor country). The thing is, values here are different; a software like that is *too expensive*. You can buy food here for a tiny fraction of how you'd pay for in on USA. Wages here are also a lot cheaper than they are in the States - even for the same job with the same qualifications. It's just that not only the country is poor, but living cost is also low; the values and the scales are different. You can get to a really good grill restaurant and get totally wasted with so much good food - and spending less than us$ 10. The same thing would cost around us$ 150 on USA - with the same restaurant chain! (Fogo de Chão - there's one around Detroit I think).

When selling software, people don't think "ho well, I'll use one third/half/quarter of my salary to pay for this software..".. they usually think "ho well, I'll use 1/2/3 months worth of salary to pay for this software.. well nevermind, I'll just buy a copy next corner for $3".

There are lots of wrong stuff going on the government of this country. And one of them is the coice for Microsoft Software. My dad used to work for the state a while ago.. Basically the entire office ran on pirated win95 with microsoft office, and of course, they had no 'central' support or IT management so I used to go there fix their computers. Switching to some linux based solution with open office (or whatever) would pose an obstacle at first but would be just as it was before on the long run. With less virus and trojans, that is (I remember I spent an entire weekend getting the entire office rid of macro template virii - man that was fucked up).

I, for one, commend them on this choice. On the long run, this will prove to be the best choice, contrary to the FUD the local Microsoft is spreading.

Of course, money saved from going to Microsoft's pockets will end up going to some politician's bank account, so who am I fooling. Nothing of this matters.

Re:erm, duplicate

[rm999]

Agreed. I somehow miss all the original articles in these so-called dupes, and find many of them interesting. I agree that it is somewhat unprofessional of a website to have very common duplicates. Oh well, I'm not paying for it, so I can't complain!

And to some of you:
If something is free, DON'T CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. If it's unbearable, don't use it. In this case, duplicates are easy to handle: read the next article, or go to another webpage. Duh.

Re:erm, duplicate

[amanox]

Not everybody is on Slashdot 24/7.
Although I read slashdot on a daily basis, this is the first time that I see this, and I'm glad it has been brought to my attention.
Ah.. Brazil... it just moved up on the list of countries that I want to move to.

Don't expect Lula to be reelected.

[Anonymous Coward]

The US administration and/or Microsoft will make sure that his political opponents get plenty of advice and money.

Not really.

[khasim]

-All gov't employees (users) have to learn to use a new desktop. For some people that aren't really computer literate, it already took years to be functionnal and learn to do the basic stuff. Take that away from them? You'll decrease productivity by a LOT, and you'll have a lot of training costs.

Nope. The desktops can be configured to appear almost identical to the Windows desktop.

The switch to Linux would be easier than the switch from Win2K to WinXP's layout.

All gov't employees in the IT support field would need to be retrained for this new OS (can't just fire them or replace them, doesn't work like that). That alone could cost WAY more than licensing fees. Salaries might go up over time too...

Yep. They'd have to be re-trained. But salaries wouldn't need to go up. It takes less time to manage Linux systems than it does to manage Windows systems.

-All the in house applications. Just about every desktop (or employee) makes use of in-house software, and a lot of our corporate apps runs only in windows. Port all our in-house built apps? Replace all them big corporate apps? That's far too time/money consuming to even be considered. Best case scenario, users would have to login to remote servers (citrix or such) or something along those lines. 99%+ of our intranet is ASP/ASP.Net pages too (using SQL server too)... This alone is a good reason to stick to windows.

The Windows-only apps are the only real block to migrations. But, if you have a migration plan, you can deal with these apps over time, before you actually move off of Windows. Simply start porting your apps to an Open Source database and scripting language now and don't do any new development in ASP/ASP.Net.

Open Source is a strategy, not a drop in replacement.

-Management. I'm no linux guru, so there might be (very good) alternatives to do this with linux, but I'm not 100% sure. Everything across country is monitored by a central NOC 24/7 easily. We have Active Directory, SMS, VBScript/WMI and a whole lot of other mangement/scripting/automation/(...) options. Again, not too sure of what linux has to offer here... Sure thing is, you just can't take away all our tools, you'd definately have to have equivalents.

Linux easily beats Windows here. Linux's scripting ability (from shell scripts on up) is beyond anything you've seen in Windows (unless you're running perl on Windows).

The only thing Linux doesn't have is the group policies capability of AD. But if you're deploying Linux, you don't really need those. Everything is locked down already.

-Exchange-like calendaring and everything else (shared mailboxes, boardroom booking, ... the whole 9 yards). AFAIK, there is no real replacement (I very well may be wrong).

There are a few Open Source projects, but nothing that is a drop in replacement for Exchange. That still needs work.

Add to that the tons of ms office (proprietary) format documents... Using an office suite that may open most of your word & excel files isn't good enough here, you pretty much need 100% support.

You can't even get 100% compatibility when using MSOffice. My HR department has tons of trouble with resumes that come in, in .doc format, that just don't print correctly. There are too many variations between printers and fonts and so forth and those all get included in the documents.

BUT from a GOVERNMENTAL standpoint, they SHOULD be demanding plain text files. Having your data in a proprietary format (which may not be supported in future releases) means that you can lose those documents and the data contained within them. That is unacceptable.

There's even more reasons, but I think this helps to show why windows may not be so much of a bad choice after all.