Slashdot Mirror
IronPython Moving Forward Again
immytay writes "
Jim Hugunin (Jython, Numeric, and
other projects) has issued the first release of IronPython
since joining Microsoft in August of last year. IronPython
runs on .NET and Mono and is supposedly faster than the C version of Python. This
new version is 0.7,
while 0.6
was released last summer and covered here.
According to the IronPython mailing
list, Jim has help from a Microsoft co-worker, and he plans to work toward IronPython 1.0."
To quote Dilbert, "Is it ok if we do things really fast and really wrong?" I'll be amused if they reach the same speed at 1.0 release.
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
See this entry from Edd Dumbill, author of the (very good) book Mono, A Developers Notebook. Turns out that in the new release, IronPython was made to depend on features that make it incompatible with Mono. How shocking, once the developer got hired by Microsoft the program no longer works with Open Source. How unbelievably shocking this is. So out of character for Microsoft...
501 Not Implemented
Someobody expand on that: I believe ironPython is not compatible with .Net 1.0 because of python itself, something to do with dynamic allocation in python. It's something that is supposed to work in 2.0
"Piter, too, is dead."
Psyco is also rather easy to use. For basic usage, put these two lines at the beginning of your program:..and your program is magically faster! You can also combine with the Py2Exe utility to convert your project to an executable program (although it will still only be compiled at runtime).
If you could demonstrate that the changes were superflous in nature, perhaps you'd have a point. But given that you have no idea what was changed or the reasons for it, you're just being paranoid (and/or trolling, given the nature of your post).
.Net lacked certain features necessary for running a dynamic language (ie: perf would blow). These features were added in v2.0 (ie: perf no longer blows).
v1.1 of
...write a really really fast app in it to convert mounds of Perl code over within my lifetime. And then maybe they can make Windows more stable. And then...
Screw it. I'll settle for the first thing if it ever happens.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
No, I think we need t.
Every platform that has a .NET implementation already has a native Python implementation, which makes Hugunin's work, while interesting, ultimately redundant. I would love to hear how this little side project reinforces Microsoft's monopoly power in operating systems.
This sig intentionally left blank.
Lately, I've become interested in Groovy, a JVM-based scripting language that combines concepts from Java (syntax, access to the class libraries) with concepts from Perl (dynamic typing, native syntax for collections and regular expressions). It would be interesting to see something similar for .NET.
But... I'm not even going to Google for info on protocols, file formats, etc, etc.
Microsoft has a long history of using the standard monopolist tactics of restricting interoperability.
They will hardly stop doing it even if ordered to do so by a court (see recent EU problems). You certainly know that, too, so you are being disingenious.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
So that makes it's ok to react in a knee jerk fashion and point fingers without knowing the actual facts involved? How does that add anything useful to the conversation?
It can *hypothetically* use Python classes - if you look at the release, there's not actually much there that you can use. As the compiler gets more stable and modern, you'll be able to use more of the python library (hopefully).
Paolo Molaro (one of the mono guys) said on the Ironpython mailing list:
"IronPython 0.7 compiles with the current mono from svn (not with the released 1.1.5, though the patch is minimal)."
And Jim Hugunin has said in the same place that if Ironpython does not compile because it deviates from the spec. then it is a bug and should be entered as such.
Try and avoid knee jerk reactions. You'll just annoy your high horse.
As Edd Dumbil pointed out, there's a number of questions that need to be answered before it is worth getting behind IronPython, such as:
- Is it actually Free Software?
- Why do I need a passport account Passport to participate?
- Why are you bothering to release source code if you're not willing to
accept patches?
- Why don't you want to get it working with Mono?
And so on.
-- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"
I don't see it as being redundant at all. For Python developers on almost anything except Windows, you'll most probably have some native Python interpreter installed. You can do all your development, making a great application which targets the .NET CLR, and then deploy it to the world (which by that time will have probably upgraded to the version 2 .NET Framework/CLR).
All these Windows users won't have to worry about downloading and installing a native interpreter to run your application, since they'll already have the .NET CLR installed, and if you've compiled to Mono+IronPython, you would reasonably expect that anyone on Windows will be able to use your amazing new application without any hassles.
This is the whole point of cross-platform bytecode VMs like the Java VM, or the .NET CLR.
It frees you from having to rely on the customer adding more and more stuff to their machines to make your program work.
You increase your target market immensely, while using the environment you choose and are most comfortable in.
IronPython-0.6 is now available as Open Source Software under the Common Public License version 1.0. A single zip file containing both the source code and the binary executables can be downloaded below.
Thanks for putting on the feedbag. Thanks for going all out. Thanks for showing me your Swiss Army knife.
MOD PARENT UP and mod that top level comment down!!! talk about flamebait!!!
You could of course be right -- Microsoft might be innocent in this particular case .... for now.
But I wouldn't bet money on it. They aren't so stupid they don't try to hide it when they can.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Mr. Softy has a historical addiction to ugliness.
They "need" to pile up a lot of "sobriety" to reduce the tarnish on the image. The philanthropy of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation amounts to little in the technical community.
One little binge of historical practices will knock them off the wagon.
Mr. Softy wasn't addicted to coca^H^H^H^Hmonopolistic practices; he just liked the way they smelled.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I suppose the main benefit I saw was a more palatable way to tap into the winforms api. Of course, as another poster mentioned, it still needs a lot of work to be usable.