Slashdot Mirror
FBI Demands Logs From Radical Website
sunbird writes "The details are as yet unclear due to a gag order, but apparently the FBI is once again demanding IP logs from dissident webservers. The sysadmin for flag.blackened.net, best known for hosting infoshop.org and the Anarchist FAQ has responded to an FBI request for server logs. Although he cannot reveal the details of the request due to the gag order, the sysadmin has issued an informal press release discussing his reasons for turning over the information. Slashdot articles on similar topics: (1) (2) (3)"
Someone that is so against government control and intrusion should have known that this inevitability would occur at some point. Why didn't they take the time to protect themselves especially when they (and/or their family) could be harmed by the very people they host discussions for who could become enraged by their actions?
Not only that, but did his site(s) get shutdown? My guess is that this currently an investigation in progress. If people start disappearing without due process or his sites are shut down, then he has a legitimate gripe. Contrary to popular belief, freedom of speech does not entitle you to say anything you want (e.g., threatening to kill someone, yelling fire! in a crowded building, etc.)
We should reserve judgment until the details become available.
That's my armchair proposal for a better America.
--Mike--
We should reserve judgment until the details become available.
I'm not judging anything other than his lack of foresight that got him into this mess in the first place.
You know, what actually worries me more than the FBI's asking for server logs is the fact that (seemingly) every time something like this happens, a "gag order" is placed on the affected parties. It's a serious breach of the constitutional rights people enjoy; not only the right to free speech is affected, but also things like due process. A state which gathers evidence in secret is well on its way to a state that holds trials in secret, and THAT certainly is something none of us (here on Slashdot, anyway) want, no matter how we may disagree on other matters.
And of course, there is the fact that (like always) there does not even seem to be a good reason to place a gag order, short of "people aren't gonna like this and we want to avoid bad press"; I can see why the FBI wants to err on the (for them) "safe" side, but I think it's a dangerous path to take, for the reasons described above.
Oh well. I guess it just shows again that as a webmaster, you should not keep logs for longer than is absolutely necessary, and that as a user, you should use Tor or a similar tool to anonymise your browsing if you're visiting political websites (I wonder if Slashdot counts as one).
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Right on there. "Though I pretend to be an anarchist and revolutionary, I am really a scared sheep like the rest of you and thought this was just a game. Whaaaaa."
Why does he have to comply? rm -rf / the server and do your time pal. What a friggin pussy.
So, you should be able to speak your mind, as long as your ideas aren't "extreme"?
I couldn't disagree with you more.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Fine then. They would be siezed and searched and nothing found. Granted since said servers are /.ed to hell and back and the moment I only have a bit of info but let's play thought experiment for a minute. And list the basic rookie mistakes this guy and his lusers made.
.3 seconds you come to the conclusion that you should seek hosting in another country, by prefrence one that has no extradition treaty.
1. He kept logs. Nuff said.
2. Given as upset as he expects them to be we can only conclude that they were coming from tracable IPs. Good god welcome to fucking amatuer hour.
3. WTF was he doing keeping the servers *in* the US. As someone who grew up in the 70s and 80s and who really thinks that that American Revoultion was one of the best things to ever happen to mankind is sickens me to say this. But the US is rapidly descending into totalitarianism. If you think about it for about
4. The fucking idiot was *KEEPING LOGS*. There is no possible way to justify this.
He likely sits with his back to doors.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
We do not live on a playground. Freedom of speech is not something that exists only in the sandbox. When we say something really mean, the state is not a watchful parent who should step in and pull us aside for a stern talking to.
That's the attitude a lot of people seem to take. "Oh, they were playing for real, so the FBI had to make them stop."
Liberty is either respected or it is not. The realpolitik guys will say "only when it's expedient". The libertarians will say, "all the time regardless". The Democrats and Republicans will say, "as long as you play nice", and that's the government we've got.
The government has to follow the rules all the time. They can't break them just because we're playing "for keeps"*.
*though of course actually they can, and do, and people expect them to. so they'll keep doing it.
It is illegal to try to violently overthrow the government, make no mistake.
Only if you fail.
Thus does Slashdot discuss matters of social importance.
The FBI could be interested in the logs for legitimate or illegitimate reasons. If they are investigating a crime and someone is known to have contacted the site then they have every right to demand the logs under the law.
When I exchanged email with Timothy McVeigh before he murdered 300 people in Oaklahoma City I handed over the correspondence to the FBI as soon as I heard that he was a suspect. I would have handed them over to the FBI even earlier if I had thought they could take any action, the guy was a whacko.
If on the other hand the FBI is just engaged in a fishing expedition looking for dissidents then there is a serious problem.
The big problem with the actions of the administration is that it is very difficult to trust them when they say that their interest is of the first type rather than the second. The Attorney General has provided legal opinions to facilitate torture. 23 prisoners have died during interogation. The only criminal proceedings have been taken against low level grunts who are exceptionally unlikely to have re-invented procedures that exactly match the R2I protocol of their own accord.
So instead of calling people morons or running around in tin foiul hats perhaps people should take note of the fact that yes there are real terrorists and no the administration does not have a clue how to deal with the problem. They have repeated every one of the mistakes that the British government made in Northern Ireland only on a much larger scale and to a much greater degree.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I am really a scared sheep like the rest of you
..Those too stupid to realize their danger...
... Or those who think the enemy of us all
takes sides and will protect them.
Only three types of people don't feel "scared"...
Those beyond punishment (usually already so far gone that anything further would only grant them release - Or gods)...
The rest of us, the sane common folk, may fall anywhere in the political spectrum. But we ALL realize that fucking with "The Man", whether you believe in "The Man" or not, will cause us grievous harm.
I strongly sympathize with this poor bastard. I may chide him for not having his logs on a 72-hour regular deletion schedule (or even more often, considering the type of sites he hosted), but I still feel bad for the poor bastard. "A rock and a hard place" has no more physical embodiment than an FBI (or "insert your nation's "law" upholding body here") order to violate your own beliefs.
Why does he have to comply? rm -rf / the server and do your time pal.
Do you have any idea how much power US judges have?
"Do your time" for violating a court order could well mean (and has meant) life in prison without your "crime" ever going to trial, and no possibility of parole.