Slashdot Mirror
FBI Demands Logs From Radical Website
sunbird writes "The details are as yet unclear due to a gag order, but apparently the FBI is once again demanding IP logs from dissident webservers. The sysadmin for flag.blackened.net, best known for hosting infoshop.org and the Anarchist FAQ has responded to an FBI request for server logs. Although he cannot reveal the details of the request due to the gag order, the sysadmin has issued an informal press release discussing his reasons for turning over the information. Slashdot articles on similar topics: (1) (2) (3)"
FBI investigating incidents on subdomains hosted by flag.blackened.net.
OK folks, here's the real deal as far as I can share it legally at the moment. Consider it as a press release if you wish and feel free to distribute it for whatever reason you deem necessary.
I'm under court order not to speak about specifics and have my attorney trying to find out what the maximum penalty for disclosure really is. I hate to have to keep my mouth shut in areas where the Gestapo is involved, but I also have to weigh things against the overall security of flag and it's subdomains and also the wellbeing of my family.
I have been ordered to submit IP info on two separate incidents having to do with subdomains hosted on flag. Both of these are in regard to claimed or threatened responsibility for acts of propaganda by the deed. Both incidents involve topics which are completely out of line for consideration here at flag and really I can only view them in two ways. Either people are simply ignorant about the murderous history of the FBI, or, as is my belief in one case, they are trying to make flag vulnerable to government intrusion.
At this point let me say, in all honesty and conviction, that if I end up dead by strange means - suicide, overdose, drunk driving accident (I never, ever, ever drink and drive), "accidental" gunshot to the back of the head while sleeping ala Fred Hampton, car jacking, or anything else reasonably suspicious, contact the FBI in Chico, California for more details.
I have called numerous friends nationwide, anarchists and otherwise whose opinions I respect and who I know will be honest and forthwith in their opinions to ask them how I should proceed. The unanimous consensus is that I comply with the wishes of the FBI and provide the IP addresses responsible. The only point of discussion, really, has been whether or not I should reveal the specific information in violation of two court orders.
Really, I am not left with much of a choice. Here are my two choices as I see them:
1. Do not comply with the wishes of the FBI. This will most likely lead to the seizure of flag and a compromise of all the sites and information online. It will probably also lead to me being imprisoned, I would guess. I personally do not fear this, but I am the sole support for my wife and infant daughter. There can be no doubt we would probably lose our home as a result.
2. Comply with the wishes of the FBI, provide the IP addresses, and count on the fact that I will catch a lot of heat and hatred from my comrades in the anarchist movement worldwide.
Though it pains me to comply with the State in any manner, I have to choose option #2. The people who have foolishly compromised us all will shoulder the burden for their selfish actions. Frankly folks, they know better - we all know better.
I was first contacted by the Oakland FBI. Many of you know their history. We are talking COINTELPRO for real - not a perceived or mythical fear. They are proven murderers and automatons for the state who will blindly follow any order to kill or disrupt without question. Read the history of their disinformation campaign against the panthers if you don't believe me. The panther comic book which they completed and distributed, the fake letters between Huey and Eldridge, the fires of hatred and murder they faked and inflamed between the panthers and the US or "united slaves" which led to the murder of Bunchy Carter and John Higgins in L.A., the list goes on and on.
But, the real point is that I feel like a coward and traitor to my comrades, even in the face of what is essentially a coerced decision. I'm the last one who will criticize or disagree with any of you who want to deride me. I'm also aware that this will probably cause quite a few of you to lose faith in me, flag, and it's subdomains. This can't be avoided and it's something I weighed into my decision. I post this mainly to inform you all and give you opportunity to make your own decisions as to whether I've handl
Either it's the start of the fourth reich, tracking down all the remaining Jedi^Wfreethinkers and killing them, or it's a normal subpoena request for a normal investigation.
I'll go ask Occam and get back to you.
The best way to make the FBI happy is to slashdot the site. Great job! Now I have time to hide my cyanide in the subway rails!
Someone that is so against government control and intrusion should have known that this inevitability would occur at some point. Why didn't they take the time to protect themselves especially when they (and/or their family) could be harmed by the very people they host discussions for who could become enraged by their actions?
Not only that, but did his site(s) get shutdown? My guess is that this currently an investigation in progress. If people start disappearing without due process or his sites are shut down, then he has a legitimate gripe. Contrary to popular belief, freedom of speech does not entitle you to say anything you want (e.g., threatening to kill someone, yelling fire! in a crowded building, etc.)
We should reserve judgment until the details become available.
So all those sites dedicated to the mullet rocking, Oakley blade wearing (with the pink arms) lifted Toyota minitruck driving, Coors light drinking Americans from the 80's are in big trouble!
Rad.
Totally.
Dude.
That's my armchair proposal for a better America.
--Mike--
We should reserve judgment until the details become available.
I'm not judging anything other than his lack of foresight that got him into this mess in the first place.
I am absolutely shocked that the FBI doesn't already own and control the site to troll for anarchists. Everytime I see a site that preaches radicalism, my first reaction is "Fed".
I have a friend who worked undercover investigating racist groups and he said he would look around the room and try to figure out who was connected to which agency. For all they knew, they ALL were cops.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
While it's more than a touch paranoid to apply it to himself, COINTELPRO , which he mentioned, was quite real, and did some pretty darn nasty things. It's the very reason why the "wall" between the FBI and CIA, and a lot of restrictions on the agencies, were set up in the first place.
I once listened to a Philip Glass record for an hour and a half before I realized it was skipping.
You know, what actually worries me more than the FBI's asking for server logs is the fact that (seemingly) every time something like this happens, a "gag order" is placed on the affected parties. It's a serious breach of the constitutional rights people enjoy; not only the right to free speech is affected, but also things like due process. A state which gathers evidence in secret is well on its way to a state that holds trials in secret, and THAT certainly is something none of us (here on Slashdot, anyway) want, no matter how we may disagree on other matters.
And of course, there is the fact that (like always) there does not even seem to be a good reason to place a gag order, short of "people aren't gonna like this and we want to avoid bad press"; I can see why the FBI wants to err on the (for them) "safe" side, but I think it's a dangerous path to take, for the reasons described above.
Oh well. I guess it just shows again that as a webmaster, you should not keep logs for longer than is absolutely necessary, and that as a user, you should use Tor or a similar tool to anonymise your browsing if you're visiting political websites (I wonder if Slashdot counts as one).
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
This guy doesn't seem very smart.
1. He stupidly keeps logs
2. He caves under a subpeana
3. And then to cover his ass he plays "the spooks are going to kill me if I don't co-operate card."
What good are you to your cause if you aren't willing to risk incarceration or bodily harm for it? Anyone who tries to change the way of the world ends up dead, he should have kept his mouth shut if he wasn't willing to risk that.
If I were one of his comrades I'd be very pissed at him.
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
So, you should be able to speak your mind, as long as your ideas aren't "extreme"?
I couldn't disagree with you more.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Google "COINTELPRO" for a little dose of reality.
If you don't want to.... It can be summed up by saying the United Staes Government was proven to have used eviction, job loss, break ins, vandalism, grand jury subpoenas, false arrests, frame- ups, and physical violence.
The above and more (according to thier own documents leaked to the press, and later further dug up under freedom of information) were threatened, instigated or directly employed, in an effort to frighten activists and disrupt their movements. Government agents either concealed their involvement or fabricated a legal pretext. In the case of the Black and Native American movements, these assaults, including outright political assassinations, were so extensive and vicious that they amounted to terrorism on the part of the government.
Congress admitted as much and shut down the COINTELPRO (Counter-Intelligence Program)after the leaked documents went public.
I'm sure it's cozy in that utopia though.....
Fine then. They would be siezed and searched and nothing found. Granted since said servers are /.ed to hell and back and the moment I only have a bit of info but let's play thought experiment for a minute. And list the basic rookie mistakes this guy and his lusers made.
.3 seconds you come to the conclusion that you should seek hosting in another country, by prefrence one that has no extradition treaty.
1. He kept logs. Nuff said.
2. Given as upset as he expects them to be we can only conclude that they were coming from tracable IPs. Good god welcome to fucking amatuer hour.
3. WTF was he doing keeping the servers *in* the US. As someone who grew up in the 70s and 80s and who really thinks that that American Revoultion was one of the best things to ever happen to mankind is sickens me to say this. But the US is rapidly descending into totalitarianism. If you think about it for about
4. The fucking idiot was *KEEPING LOGS*. There is no possible way to justify this.
He likely sits with his back to doors.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
We do not live on a playground. Freedom of speech is not something that exists only in the sandbox. When we say something really mean, the state is not a watchful parent who should step in and pull us aside for a stern talking to.
That's the attitude a lot of people seem to take. "Oh, they were playing for real, so the FBI had to make them stop."
Liberty is either respected or it is not. The realpolitik guys will say "only when it's expedient". The libertarians will say, "all the time regardless". The Democrats and Republicans will say, "as long as you play nice", and that's the government we've got.
The government has to follow the rules all the time. They can't break them just because we're playing "for keeps"*.
*though of course actually they can, and do, and people expect them to. so they'll keep doing it.
It is illegal to try to violently overthrow the government, make no mistake.
Only if you fail.
Thus does Slashdot discuss matters of social importance.
The FBI could be interested in the logs for legitimate or illegitimate reasons. If they are investigating a crime and someone is known to have contacted the site then they have every right to demand the logs under the law.
When I exchanged email with Timothy McVeigh before he murdered 300 people in Oaklahoma City I handed over the correspondence to the FBI as soon as I heard that he was a suspect. I would have handed them over to the FBI even earlier if I had thought they could take any action, the guy was a whacko.
If on the other hand the FBI is just engaged in a fishing expedition looking for dissidents then there is a serious problem.
The big problem with the actions of the administration is that it is very difficult to trust them when they say that their interest is of the first type rather than the second. The Attorney General has provided legal opinions to facilitate torture. 23 prisoners have died during interogation. The only criminal proceedings have been taken against low level grunts who are exceptionally unlikely to have re-invented procedures that exactly match the R2I protocol of their own accord.
So instead of calling people morons or running around in tin foiul hats perhaps people should take note of the fact that yes there are real terrorists and no the administration does not have a clue how to deal with the problem. They have repeated every one of the mistakes that the British government made in Northern Ireland only on a much larger scale and to a much greater degree.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
If you visited the msg board you would notice that the logging provided was not http logs but phpbb logs (every post has the ip of the poster embedded in it) and this is what was provided.