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Texas Considers Putting RFID Tags in All Cars
An anonymous reader submits "In section 601.507 of Texas HB 2893, the Texas Legislature is considering replacing all vehicle inspection stickers with RFID tags. The legislation also makes provision for the government to use the devices for insurance enforcement. The bill contains limited privacy provisions, but does not seem to exclude other law enforcement usage."
...RFID works only at a very close range. The tags themselves are powered by the radio transceivers that in turn detect them, making their range, by nature, very limited. This isn't a global universal tracking mechanism.
It's a unique vehicle identifier that can be deciphered using the electromagnetic spectrum, similar to the way human eyes or a tollbooth camera might use visible light to view a license plate, another unique vehicle identifier.
Texas is planning on using it for automated vehicle registration and toll booths (relevant bill excerpt below).
Sounds like a perfectly reasonable use of technology to me. Are we to now fear any new legislation that doesn't specifically and explicitly "exclude [...] law enforcement usage", even if utterly irrelevant?
This may sound trite, but:
RFID != bad
Anything - including a license plate or an old fashioned inspection sticker - can be abused for illegitimate purposes or to abridge someone's privacy. And keep in mind that "illegitimate purposes" is awfully subjective. But trampling - or spreading FUD about - technology is not the answer.
Relevant section:
Sec. 601.507. SPECIAL INSPECTION CERTIFICATES.
(a) Commencing not later than January 1, 2006, the department shall
issue or contract for the issuance of special inspection
certificates to be affixed to motor vehicles that are inspected and
found to be in proper and safe condition under Chapter 548.
(b) An inspection certificate under this section must
contain a tamper-resistant transponder, and at a minimum, be
capable of storing:
(1) the transponder's unique identification number;
and
(2) the make, model, and vehicle identification number
of the vehicle to which the certificate is affixed.
(c) In addition, the transponder must be compatible with:
(1) the automated vehicle registration and
certificate of title system established by the Texas Department of
Transportation; and
(2) interoperability standards established by the
Texas Department of Transportation and other entities for use of
the system of toll roads and toll facilities in this state.
This takes very little away, but think about what it might add: the ability to pay for tolls, gas, or parking meters without swiping a card. You have to admit that'd be pretty cool.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
That is all. Er, actually, could I get a +5 insightful? Just wondering.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
I don't know what could have happened to it, officer! Must have been the same stray electromagnetism that wiped the stripe on my license!
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
Does anyone have a really big microwave oven I could put my car in for a few minutes?
Hmm, I wonder if a radar gun at very close range would suffice...
Well, the old "whack it over and over with a rubber mallet" would work, I expect. Break the chip but not the windshield and hopefully not the sticker itself.
AHA! I've got it...
A Tesla coil! Put 200kv across the sucker and see how well it fares.
Nevermind, problem solved. Go about your cries of doom and gloom, everyone.
If you do, every place you go is documented. Didn't sign up for it but still have the equipment? Doesn't matter, you are still being tracked. Think that is bad? OnStar equipment includes a phone.. Could somebody record what you are doing without you knowing? I'd bet it is possible.
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
Lets see how many Trolls vs Insightful's I'll get on this post...
1) This is a great idea- AS LONG AS there is a recorded method for access that is timestamped and GPS'd by the police department for querying the users information (ie, after pulled over but not before).
2) This is a BAD idea because, as has been demonstrated with the SpeedPass(tm) the encryption routines thought secure have been easily broken by dedicated hardware. Access to the db by walking out with a copy of it would result in very interesting privacy implications.
Now, I'm a fan of the black-box in a car because should I get into an accident and die, I'd really like my loved ones to know whether or not I was being a responsible individual or an asshole. And frankly, given the number of total incompetent drivers that are apparently granted licenses to operate 2500lb guided missiles, I think the black box has got a better chance of defending me in an accident than attacking me.
RFID tags provide a method of enforcing insurance- do you know what happens if an uninsured motorist hits you and does damage? You're fucked. Totally, completely, fucked. It would have been better for you to wrap your car (and yourself) around a tree than to get hit by an uninsured motorist.
First, your insurance skyrockets because there's no one to recoup the cost from- guess what, you're fucked.
Second, there's no one to go after for pain and suffering (and I suffered for 5 months after getting T-boned by an asshole that ran a stopsign)- thats alot of physical therapy and chiropractic work to get your neck to move in the right direction without needles of pain shooting everywhere.
Finally, there's the whole issue of 'submitted claims' that then follows you around for 7 years. It doesn't matter that your only fault was existing in that particular place at that particular time, it'll follow you on your record and probably influence such things as your credit report and interest rates.
A much better solution would be to simply confiscate the car of a driver that was uninsured or driving illegally, and if it was someone else's car require a 250$ or 500$ fine, doubling each time the car was 'caught'.
But I guess that's my opinion... someone that's had a perfect driving record, dodged into oncoming traffic to avoid hitting a little girl that ran into an intersection (great mother), been t-boned by a moron, and had 2 friends killed by drunk drivers with no insurance.
How hard is it going to be to forge these things? Once the police start relying on this stuff the tech savvy criminals are going to have it easy. Car flies through a toll at 90mph? Don't need cameras anymore...we have the rfid of the car. (it HAS to be the right car because the company that sold us this stuff said it can't be fooled... )
Rats would be more funny if they could fart.
All this really does, assuming they don't add annoying additional data, is make a license plate readable by machines. Heck they could even attach it to the license plate tags for convenience. Make distribution easier.
But IMO the issue isn't really electronic vs visual ID. The issue is electronic vs human reading of that ID.
Up till relatively recently, a numberplate could be read by any human, but not by an automated machine. So it could be easily checked when really necessary (e.g. when stopped by the police, when photographed leaving a petrol station without paying, when photographed by a speeding camera, &c). But it wasn't checked as a matter of routine.
Now, though, there are machines which can look at a numberplate and automatically recognise the vehicle ID. And there are RFID chips which can be automatically read by machine. Both of these have a similar effect: car IDs can be read as a matter of course, and checked against whatever information they want to.
Arguably, when used to stop cars which have no tax or insurance, that could be beneficial. But would you want your husband/wife to be able to subpoena records of all your movements in a divorce case, say? ("You claimed to have been working late at the office, but your car was recorded as having driven to your girlfriend's house at 5.27pm that evening!") And if the system is widely used, how easy might it be for people to gain unauthorised access? You have only to look at any detective novel to see how people can have good, legitimate reasons for wanting to conceal their movements. And it'd be a gift for stalkers and paparazzi...
Here in the UK, we already have automated numberplate recognition, not just for speed cameras and red-light cameras, but also for the recognising cars entering the London congestion zone, and sending out appropriate bills. (And I gather there's a good number of people who were billed incorrectly...) There's also a new type of speed camera, which recognises your numberplate as you pass fixed locations on motorways, and issues a speeding ticket if your average speed between two such points exceeds the limit. (Which is fair, but worrying for the privacy implications.)
So yes, I agree with your conclusion that RFID doesn't seem to have any intrinsic dangers over and above those which are here already...
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
I bet I can defeat this by wrapping the car in aluminum foil ...
Now imagine driving down the freeway, the exit sign above seems to have a flashing light (dramatic effect, not needed for RFID readers) and within seconds you are pulled over because (a) your insurance lapsed, (b) your registration has expired and (c) oh yeah, you're not wearing your seatbelt... got some unpaid parking tickets too.
I have mixed feelings about it.... I laugh when it happens to someone else, I cry when it happens to me. You know, life is pretty tough and law is pretty unforgiving. But when financial times are hard, sometimes you can skip along with some luck until things get better. I'm having good times now, but I've had some bad ones where insurance and registration wasn't as important as gasoline and rent. (And for the record, I don't drink, smoke or otherwise waste money recreationally all that often and never did.) The thought of having an almost robotic police force out there pulling people over getting the most income possible from fines and such is a little creepy.
On the other hand, if it were forbidden to pull someone over for trivial offenses (insurance and registration for example -- they could mail out a "warning letter" and make you pay postage or something... that would be reasonable) but say, "Amber Alert" type stuff, someone with a warrant for a violent crime, stolen car(!) and stuff like that I'd be down with. Is there any hope for sanity in the application of new technology in government?
Personally, I think the idea is good, though it has potential for abuse.
Once such example could be automated issuing of speeding tickets. There are some towns and villages that people know to be speed traps. Two examples of these from the news are New Rome and Macks Creek. I can picture a small town or village like one of these places investing in a pair of readers. Install them on the local highway, and calculate how much time a car should take to travel between these points. If a vehicle goes faster than this, it must be speeding. Use the database to find the driver's address, and send them a ticket. The bill does allow local law enforcement to access the database in Section 601.501 b.
As abusive as this may sound, though, it's nothing that couldn't be done with tracking license plates.
I live in Texas and I'm not to afraid. Why? Because in order to abuse these tags, it will cost money. Money to build speed traps, or money to equip cop cars. Since the taxes are lower in Texas, most deparments don't have enough money for staff, let alone new devices (I can't tell you how many times I driven through a small town in Texas lately where an empty cop car is parked at the nearest intersection because they can't pay to man it...). Only a in a few areas (suburbs, retirement places such as Williamson County) where the local rich blue hairs throw tons of money away to get yonger people like myself off the streets will these new things be abused. And in those places it doesn't matter anyway because the ultraconservative elected judges let the cops do whatever they want anyway- a little RFID is nothing compared to those heat guns some Texas cops still use (despite a supreme court order saying no). With those cops, you are either favored (rich, white, "good ole boy") or your screwed, the laws that are in place to unforce this are mostly irrelevent. The rest of the state will get techonology to use RFID twenty years from now when every state does it. It took till the 80's for school segrigation to end in some parts of Texas for crying out loud!
Open Source Sushi
TOP SECRET FACT:Most modern cars have tracking transponders!
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:
: ...but the link finally died in July 2004 and the new location does not have a photo of a RFID bridge underpass collector. But does discuss thhe toll booth RFID uses...
Spy transmission chips embedded in tires that can be read REMOTELY while driving.
A secret initiative exists to track all funnel-points on interstates and US borders for car tire ID transponders (RFID chips embedded in the tire).
Yup. My brother works on them.
The us gov T.R.E.A.D. act (which passed) makes it illegal to sell new passenger cars lacking untamperable RFID in the tires.
Your tires have a passive coil with 64 to 128 bit serial number emitter in them! (AIAG B-11 ADC v3.0) . A particular frequency energizes it enough so that a receiver can read its little ROM. A ROM which in essence is your GUID for your TIRE. Multiple tires do not confuse the readers. Its almost identical to all "FastPass" "SpeedPass" technologies you see on gasoline keychain dongles and commuter windshield sticker-chips. The US gov has secretly started using these chips to track people.
Its kind of like FBI "Taggants" in fertilizer and "Taggants" in Gasoline and Bullets, and Blackpowder. But these car tire transponder Ids are meant to actively track and trace movement of your car.
Taggant research papers
http://www.wws.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/byteserv.prl/ ~ota/disk3/1980/8017/801705.PDF
(remove spaces in url from slashcode if needed)
I am not making this up. Melt down a high end Firestone, or Bridgestone tire and go through the bits near the rim (sometimes at base of tread) and you will locate the transmitter (similar to 'grain of rice' pet ids and Mobile SpeedPass, but not as high tech as the tollbooth based units). Sokymat LOGI 160, and Sokymat LOGI 120 transponder buttons are just SOME of the transponders found in modern high end car tires. The AIAG B-11 Tire tracking standard is now implemented for all 3rd party transponder manufactures [covered below].
It is for QA and to prevent fraud and "car theft", but the US Customs service uses it in Canada to detect people who swap license plates on cars when doing a transport of contraband on a mule vehicle that normally has not logged enough hours across the border. The customs service and FBI do not yet talk about this, and are starting using it soon.
Photos of chips before molded deep into tires!
http://www.sokymat.com/sp/applications/tireid.html
(slashdot ruins links, so you will have to remove the ASCII space it insertess usually into the url above to get to the shocking info and photos on the enbedded LOGI 160 chips that the us gov scans when you cross mexican and canadian borders.)
You never heard of it either because nobody moderates on slashdot anymore and this is probably +0 still. It has also never appeared in print before and is very secret.
Californias Fastpass is being upgraded to scan ALL responding car tires in future years upcoming. I-75 may get them next in rural funnel points in Ohio.
The photo of the secret prototype WAS at
http://www.tadiran-telematics.com/products6.html
http://www.telematics-wireless.com/site/index1.php ?ln=en&main_id=33
but the fact is... YOU PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE A RADIO TRANSPONDER not counting your digital cell phone which is routinely silently pulsed in CA bay area each rush hour morning unless turned off (consult Wired Magazine Expose article). Those data point pulses are used by NSA on occasions.
The us FBI with NRO/NSA blessin
I'm working on an embedded Gnu/Linux device that will be roughly 304.8mm wide x 152.4mm tall that can be mounted on the back of the vehicle to prevent readers from picking up the signals from the tags. I'll post details to this thread when it is ready.
I recommend all Colorado citizens contact and complain to their representatives tonight!
Legal code reads like Perl to me, so I'm not really sure how much information they're planning on the chips, but how would this be any different with the current system: where every car is required to have a metal plate which projects an ID code and information on when the car was last inspected over the visual spectrum?
I can understand the need for privacy, but when the information is already out there, it seems silly to get excited about something like this.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
It's not like passive RFID really works... There are were problems with the ePC class 1 tags that causes a phase lock loop on readers, giving a 15% fail rate even on good tags. Now add the intrigue of a functional environment, oh and interoperability standards established by the Texas Department of Transportation.
Or they could just do what Illinois did. Double the tolls for anyone not using the IPass (EZ-Pass, call it whatever). That way, use is "voluntary". If you want privacy, it costs you twice as much.
Many raise the point about how easy it would be for RFID to be used to pay for parking or tolls and such. I prefer, however, to be able to see it when my money is being spent. It is much easier to keep track of where it goes when I have to count it out. If I am going to be charged, I want to make the conscious decision whether I'll pay or turn around and go elsewhere. I sure don't want to have to try and remember whether each line of fine print on a monthly statement is a correct representation of the roads I travelled or the places I parked.
Likewise, consider the effect on the public? How much easier would it be to raise prices? If you pay now, you can protest. If you get a statement at the end of the month, how many people will go to the trouble of arguing?
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
The Harris County Tollroad Authority already uses RFID tags (call EZ Tags) to pay for tolls. Recently, the Houston and Dallas toll systems were integrated so drivers from one city could pay for tolls in the other city with their RFID tag.
The tags could be easily abused to monitor speeding, but they are not. Real-time traffic maps are generated from the travel speed data:
http://www.houstontranstar.org/
Are we talking windshield or license plate stickers here? Because with EZ-Pass certain cars with metal-oxide window tinting have to get an exterior tag to place by their license plate instead of behind the windshield. Would this metallic tint also block the RFID signals?
I've installed "vehicle loop detectors" inground for traffic control, security, etc..
They are everywhere. At most intersections you will see diamonds cut in the concrete and covered with tar and a line from the diamond that runs to the curb, usually headed towards a big silver box that operates the traffic lights.
When a car passes over the loop the magnetic field changes and the system knows a car went over. Not only can it count cars, it can tell the size of the vehicle (motorcycle v. car v. truck) and estimate the speed and direction. This is usually to help control traffic lights so that the light doesn't sit on red when there are no cars there. It also is used in apartments and mini-storage areas to let cars out and shut the gate behind the car to prevent tailgaters from sneaking in.
This loop can also act as a receiving antenna and it would be a very, very simple matter to have these loops "light up" the RFID chips and read them, then the equipment could pass the data upstream to what ever EVIL BIG BROTHER system you want (or don't want) to imagine.
This is BAD... My suggestion? If this passes, you should destroy the chips. A couple hundred thousand volts should do it. A $30 stun gun should fry these nasty little bastards.
Texas WILL pass this. I know how they work, Texas is very much into being a BIG BROTHER state.. They are wanking off at the thought of this right now..
the Texas Legislature has passed a law requiring all "American" flags flown throughout the state to contain the phrase "Heil Bush!" and the Carlyle Group corporate logo.
Meanwhile, a few hundred more black kids will have their feeding tubes removed under the "Futility" law because their poor parents can't pay the hospital bill for the treatment.
And a few hundred more minority criminals will be executed.
Welcome to Texas - land of "the law" (as they used to call it.)
Memo to Osama: Got any idea where your next target should be?
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
The point was that the transponders were originally sold as a way to auto-pay on the toll roads, not as a tracking device for anything else.
Now that "mission creep" has happened, as with so many other government programs, it would be trivial for local law enforcement to track any "EZ Tag"-equipped car for any reason, or no reason at all. Want to fill the city coffers? Start auto-generating tickets for any vehicle that exceeds the speed limit.
I guess while you were not looking, they went and took another of your "rights." Enjoy those you have left.
Yeah, right.
Didn't we already decide, as a nation, we didn't want the police randomly checking if we were criminals?
I'm sorry, when did we decide this?
There are a few things I don't want. I don't want the state knowing where I go at any given time. It's not their business. I'm not doing anything wrong, but if I want to go to an adult entertainment store, it's no one's business--although people think it is--and should I run for office one day, I don't want my personal business being brought up by people who think that what I do in my spare time is relevant to my ability as a public servant.
I also don't want to be severely inconvienced by law enforcement. By this, I mean I don't want checkpoints where I have to stop for 5 minutes take a breathalyzer despite the fact that I was not drinking and was driving safely. I don't want to be stopped because, as another poster put it, I'm a young black man driving a nice car.
What is acceptable would be a "random check" wherein if a car is stolen, it can be flagged and as soon as it comes in contact with an RFID reader, the police can be dispatched. What is also acceptable is using RFID to track speed on a limited basis--i.e. keeping the data around long enough to know that I've clearly broken the speed limit, but erasing it as soon as it is determined that I have not done so (so as to avoid tracking). The problem, of course, is that we can't place our trust in the government to abide by such regulations.
It's sad, but one only has to look at the DNA collection practices of some states, or the ability for law enforcement to demand to see your papers (identification) to realize that we can't trust the government with our privacy.
Um, you mean the bill that died in committee?
0 28:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:s.02
Being a Texan, and having a friend who is a State Representative I'm somewhat familiar with the machinations of the Texas House. From my examination of the Texas House website it appears that Rep. Larry Phillips is the sole author of HB2893 with no co-authors.
This is generally not a good sign for a bill. Normally if a bill is popular with the members of the Texas House you'll see more than one author, and several co-authors. For example HB259 has 5 authors, and 50 co-authors. This bill past embossment by a vote of over 4-to-1. HB259 was very popular.
Not all bills that pass are that popular with the members of the Texas House. That said, for a bill to have just one author, and *no* co-authors does not bode well for that bill to pass embossment.
As of Sunday April 3, 2005 HB2893 has yet to make it through the Transportation Committee. It is scheduled for public hearing via the Transportation Committee on Tuesday, April 5, 2005.
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
Yeah, you can get all that data out of the PCM through SAE-standard codes (J1850? J1950? Something like that) in realtime, albeit somewhat slowly on some systems. Typically speaking using the manufacturer's scan tool results in faster data rates. I'm just talking about snapshot data - the ECU holds ONE snapshot. It store a snapshot whenever a code is set. If the new code is a higher priority than the old code, it stores a new snapshot, otherwise it just stores the code (DTC) for later perusal. The code is cleared when certain conditions are met, or when they are cleared from the scan tool for the most serious errors.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"