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Modern Linux Distribution for (Very) Old Computers

Posted by timothy on from the daddy-what-were-floppy-drives dept.

macemoneta writes "The blueflops floppy-based distribution may be just what many Slashdot users are looking for, to revive old hardware. This is a 2.6.11-7 kernel based tiny distribution, that runs very well on my ancient 486sx25 with just 8MB of RAM. It's text-mode only, at the moment, but it does support hard drive installation, and includes an ssh2 client (dropbear)! Many distributions have moved away from boot floppy support, indicating that the 2.6 kernel is just too big. This distribution proves that where there's a will, there's a way."

24 of 79 comments (clear)

  1. My first post is really a first post ! by aneeshm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is my first post on Slashdot , and it seems to be really a First Post ! Am I the only one to have achieved this ? On the other hand , this is good news , because I have a friend with a 486 , who wants to use it as a toy , but cannot , becuase no modern OS can run on it .

    1. Re:My first post is really a first post ! by FidelCatsro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      first two posts and first two modding downs .Welcome to slashdot -

      It could make a rather nice router if the thing isnt too bulky and you can find an ethernet card or two to go in it (I assume ISA slots) you can also pick up the RAM for probably nothing at local PC shops as they tend to stock pile stuff like this .

      if however he wants to use it as a test bed for learning linux then go ahead this distro seems perfect. you could even get it running X11 with a minimalist window manager for your gui fix if you try.
      Certainly would make an excelent project for getting to grips with the system. I cut my x86 teeth on a 386 and later a 486dx so i have fond memorys of those days , that and doom when i was running dos ... i digress .

      Other than that if you want a more productive toy , you can cheap old macs (greybox ppc) or pentium 1 or 2s for next to nothing(ive picked up a couple from people for 0.00).

      I really do love distros such as these , they are to me the spirit of linux ,running on the older systems right up to a 64 cpu server.

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    2. Re:My first post is really a first post ! by FLEB · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only caveat about using it as a router would be a quite-a-bit-higher power consumption.

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
  2. Dumb terminals... by bcmm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OK so X would be nice, but we can still use those old boxes as SSH clients.

    Nethack, anyone?

    --
    # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
    Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    1. Re:Dumb terminals... by bcmm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oooohhh...

      I forgot aaxine... Would a LAN have the bandwidth to watch DVDs over SSH with aaxine running on the server side?

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    2. Re:Dumb terminals... by Pandora's+Vox · · Score: 5, Funny

      dumb terminals being the excuse of old hardware addicts everywhere :-)

      seriously, how many dumb terminals do you need?!?

    3. Re:Dumb terminals... by m50d · · Score: 2, Informative

      100mbps is equal to a 9x dvd, which I think is a bit more than the compression factor for mpeg. So you could probably do it in full colour with svgalib or something.

      --
      I am trolling
    4. Re:Dumb terminals... by UnseenEnigma · · Score: 2, Informative

      The issue isnt the network its the ram/processing power. mpeg compression needs ~200mhz to decompress a decent quality stream. If its running a dynamic protocol such as X11 or vnc which compresses and decompresses in real time even the fastest systems couldnt really do that effectively. Another issue is that very few network cards can run high utilization without cpu utilization.

  3. It's definately not a stock kernel... by bergeron76 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They proabably had to apply the -tiny series of 2.6 kernel patches for embedded systems.

    --
    Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
  4. A real use for this.... by zappepcs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A real use for this (if it is possible) is to configure a lot of older hardware into a cluster for cheap cluster computing. I've thought of this a couple of times, and besides the power issues, and the fact that using old obsolete hardware has its own obstacles, if you have the hardware, its perhaps possible to create a couple of racks of clustered computers. I think that being able to use two or more old motherboards per power supply would help make it more realistic. It is indeed interesting to think that in garages across the world, there could be some serious clusters built on cheap hardware. Serious, in this case, does not mean that they will ever be in contention with deepblue, but it would perhaps speak volumes to the people at SETI? Seriously, if you could do this with 12 old pentiums, would it not pave the way to do it with higher processors but keep the OS overheads very low?

    --
    Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
    1. Re:A real use for this.... by verbatim_verbose · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem is, the mathematics and economics of this just don't make sense for most people. Say you do have 12 old Pentiums laying around. 12x133 MHz each, that's only the equivalent of 1600 MHz. You can buy an Athlon XP for $60 that will obliterate this, not even considering that it will have much faster RAM. Seeing that nobody normal would actually have 12 old Pentiums, it would cost less to build a new, better performing, computer. (And be lot less of time investment as well.)

  5. Re:I don't get this one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That doesn't scale.

    Its everyone spending $300 vs someone writing fast software.

  6. No Will by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Many distributions have moved away from boot floppy support, indicating that the 2.6 kernel is just too big. This distribution proves that where there's a will, there's a way.
    Why should there be a will? Not every group of users is worth the amount of effort it takes to support them.
  7. Re:I don't get this one... by linguae · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because, believe it or not, a 486 has some good usages. Back in the early 1990s, people were using them with DOS and Windows 3.1 and doing word processing, writing spreadsheets, and other productivity jobs. A 486 with MS-DOS, WordPerfect 5.1, and Lotus 1-2-3 can be very productive. Accessing the Internet is also possible with a 486; no, you're not going to run the latest browser with your Flash animations and Java applets and beautiful CSS stylesheets and the like, but they're adequate for viewing text-based sites, checking e-mail, doing some instant messenging, and some other low-resource tasks.

    Today, people use 486s for many different usages. A 486 can make a very cheap and effective firewall, or for a Linux/BSD test machine. It can even run X and a lightweight window manager fairly well. No, KDE, GNOME, OpenOffice, Java, Firefox, and some other programs aren't going to run at great speeds (you'll need at least a Pentium II for that), but they should do nicely for some very basic tasks. Finally, having a cheap 486 would be pretty nice to explore and to hack.

    I wouldn't run a 486 as a production machine today, but I can see some of the advantages of owning and writing software for it. If you like programming, pulling your 486 out of your closet and installing Linux and some development tools can be a very fun experience. Besides, the more developers who still hack around with their old 486s, the better that it is for everyone who still uses old machines (I'm typing this on a 266MHz Pentium II). Imagine if all of the open source developers assumed that everyone has the latest Pentium 4 or Athlon processor? It wouldn't be a pretty sight for a lot of people who can't afford the latest and greatest.

  8. No EXT2 support by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 2, Informative
    Just Minix, VFAT, tmpfs.

    If he dropped VFAT, he could add EXT2 and get some space back for other uses.

    --
    You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    1. Re:No EXT2 support by macemoneta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can customize the kernel as you see fit. Remember that these old machines typically have hard drives measuring only a few hundred megabytes, so which file system is used isn't all that important (as long as it's stable).

      --

      Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.

  9. 3rd world? by Julian+Morrison · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Three hundred dollars (or local equivalent) is a lot of money to some people. Like eg: very poor people in the third world. The ability to run modern-but-simple productivity apps (and write their own) on seriously antiquated hardware might well make their day. Sort of "simputer" ad hoc. Not to mention, Linux skills might well be worth serious (local) money.

  10. Text only? by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Where's the Linux distro that turns an old machine into something useful like a kiosk with a webbrowser?

    I've kept as much old hardware as anyone here, but honestly I'm sitting here looking at a P100 and wondering what it's still good for. A buddy of mine just threw away (in the dumpster) a bunch of running 300Mhz machines. I really can't blame him. Putting a "text only" linux distro on them isn't at all useful.

    I can re-purpose old machines as firewalls and routers all day long (no one cares if those are text-only,) but even that's getting to be a waste of time when I can buy a nice tiny new mini-atx box for $200.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    1. Re:Text only? by Anubis350 · · Score: 2, Informative

      300mhz? text only? god, are you kidding? my firewall, my server for proxying into from school, and my webserver are 2 300mhz and 1 450mhz machines respectively. If I wanted to they'd run kde and gnome adequetly (yes I've tried) and they run xfce or wmaker very well if you want graphics. They also serve their current purposes that I use them for very very well. as for buying a new mini-itx machine for 200 as opposed to using old hardware... Believe it or not but these machines still eat less power and its 200 dollars I have to spend on something else. As for other uses, there are lots of schools and hospitals that would be grateful for an infusion of 300mhz machines, even if just for use as internet kiosks (rsrch). You're friend is very foolish to simply throw his machines out, I hope that at least some enterprising dumpster divers got some use out of the hardware.

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    2. Re:Text only? by tengwar · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm sitting here looking at a P100 and wondering what it's still good for.

      I use an old 133MHz machine as my web and email server. It's small, quiet, and uses little power. Since I use X to administer it from my Mac, I don't have a display or keyboard attached but I can still use the GUI. Something of this generation doesn't need a special distro - I use Suse, for instance. Yes, a mini-ATX box would do the job, but no better, so I'll hang on to my money and use the old machine.
  11. Re:Can you cluster them ? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because the only way that hardware of that level would be useful in any serious ( not router/firewall/fileserver etc. ) application would be to make it run clustered - and make it run well .

    Not sure how a router, firewall, and fileserver aren't serious applications. CPU is rarely the bottleneck in an application. There are lots of other slots in a motherboard besides the one for the CPU. Netwok attached storage device, firewall, router, switch, bridge, modem/fax pool, serial console pool, usb hub, dumb terminal, test station, network monitoring station, wireless access point, the list goes on and on. I don't know about you, but I'm all out of expansion slots on my primary desktop machine. And like I said in another post, I've got 15 IDE drives hooked up to my network, try doing that using one desktop machine. I've got a 386 running off a floppy which is routing my DSL connection and providing an IPv6 tunnel. This is something which just isn't supported by my linksys. I've also got a pentium computer in another room which has a wireless NIC and a wired NIC and acts as a bridge so that I don't have to buy a wireless card for every computer in that room. The list of possibilities goes on and on - but CPU is rarely a factor.

  12. Great distro by zogger · · Score: 2, Informative

    I downloaded it and tried it out awhile back. Works Great! Definetly the ticket for older hardware. Biggest problem I had was actually finding clean good floppies to burn the images to, had to go through a pile of them to get any that would work. After that though, fast boot, got online easy, surfed well.

  13. A 486 is "very old?" by Karma+Farmer · · Score: 2

    When did a 486 become "very old" hardware? I figured this was about old VAXen or HP-Apollo or AT&T Unix PCs. Not about a 486 sx from the mid 90's.

  14. debian woody works on 486dx2(50Mhz) - 16M by mAriuZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    yah i know is not with kernel 2.6.x
    Apache+php started on it ! -
    It's little slow compared with other old hardware i have (k6-2@500mhz)
    Is way faster than my very old amd 386sx (woody worked on that too !)

    I wonder how to install woody under 4M (another pc)
    maybe with Linux-tiny will work

    http://www.selenic.com/tiny-about/

    --
    developer http://flamerobin.org