Slashdot Mirror
Retail Theft Detectors and False Alarms?
NichardRixon asks: "All too often I set off the 'shoplifter alarm' when leaving a major department store in my area, after purchasing OTC medicine. Even though I make a point of watching the cashier 'clear' the boxes, it is evidently an imprecise process. As often as not the alarm goes off as I leave, and the security person wants to look through my bag and compare what's found with my reciept. People passing by give me the evil eye, evidently assuming that I've been caught stealing.
This has happened so so many times that my new policy is to refuse to stop for the search, telling the gaurd that they will have to tackle me, and of course they just let me go.
Shouldn't stores be required to use more reliable equipment?" What's worse is that there are many retailers that are just plain apathetic to the alarm. What's the point of having these detectors if all they are is continuing source of false alarms? What good will they be when they catch a real theft in progress and no one reacts properly because of their questionable history?
"It happened to my wife the other day, however, and she felt as though she had no choice but to wait several minutes, embarassingly on display to other shoppers, for the arrival of the manager.
I was wondering if other Slashdot readers have been having similar experiences and if so, how they deal with them."
A deterrant. Retailers don't care if they alarms are reliable; they use them to deter many of the casual wannabe shoplifters out there. And apparently they work, because the big retailers with analysts out the wazoo use them.
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
From my experience, the vast majority of the time the alarm goes off, it's etiher due to something not being demagnetized properly or something I'm carrying on me. I've never really felt that people have assumed I've done something wrong because almost everybody has had such a thing happen to them. AS far as perfecting it, if I were a retailer, I'd rather have it get an extra 99 people out of a thousand who were innocent but also get the one person who was actually stealing something than not go off. False positives for it tend to be rather minor as far as I have ever seen.
Don't you hate pants?
When this happens to me (*every* time I go to Home Depot, by the way), I just just walk away purposefully, ignoring the cries of "Sir! Sir! You set off the alarm". I don't make eye contact, I don't speed up or slow down. Just ignore. It feels good when you finally reach that Zen-like state of perfect ignoring.
:-)
I made the mistake of stopping once and had to sit there while they wasted my time rooting through all my bags. And yes, it's a waste of *my* time--It's not my duty to give them peace of mind. I guarantee they won't go out of their way to give *me* peace of mind.
This is the same way I handle the bozos at the end of the Fry's line that insist on checking eveyone's bag. I just scoot on past and ignore everything they say. The Fry's guys won't chase you though; The Home Depot people do.
-David
There. Now go play some cool javascript games!
I agree with your solution of just keep on walking. Thankfully the Fourth Amendment protects us in the USA from illegal search and seizure.
-1: flamebait should really be -1: inciteful
I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I was told that a store can't do anything to you without actually seeing you take something. So that's probably why the guards let you go. Otherwise, why have cameras at all... it would be cheaper to tag everything and let it get sorted out at the door.
Also, from what I've been told, it's best to act as if nothing happened. Shoplifters get away with their crime more often than not because they just keep walking and they can be in their car by the time the guard get to them.
I agree that you should complain, repeatedly, and in writing to the management/owners. However, at the same point, at no time did I agree to be held against my will and/or searched simply because some buzzer and a flashing light went off while I was exiting the store. If the store feels that I have shoplifted, they are perfectly free to either place my under citizen's arrest, or more likely, call the police and report it. However, since they will be able to provide no proof (I guarantee I didn't steal anything) and very little in the way of evidence, I highly doubt the police will even respond.
Do you have a FOB for your car? For whatever reason certain key FOB's set these things off. I wonder if it's your keys and not the OTC medicine that is setting it off.
Is it maybe some kind of insurance policy that is cheaper if they have these anti-theft things? I too have noticed how most store employees don't even pay attention when they go off. The customers get far more upset than the employees do.
:-)
There was a time awhile back when I used to set these things off almost everywhere I went. Eventually I started to remove one item each time I went to the store. First it was my keys, then my cell phone. The alarm would still go off. Then I tried leaving my wallet in the car and just carry in the cash I needed. Lo and behold, the alarm didn't go off! So after some careful investigation I found that my wallet still had the anti-theft sticker tucked inside an unused pocket. What was strange about this is that the alarm problem had only started recently even though the wallet had been with me for years.
After thinking about it a bit, I determined that the problem had to be caused by either one of two likely possibilities (or a combination of them). The most likely explanation is that the old security key card I had had was blocking the anti-theft device. I didn't connect to the two immediately, but the problem of the alarms going off began to occur about the time I turned that badge in. The other possible explanation is that somehow the anti-theft device was re-activated. I'm not even sure if that's possible or not, but I had the wallet before I got the job that required the security key card and never had any problem going through those detectors.
In any case, after removing the old anti-theft sticker, I've not had any problems with those devices. So if you're one of those who keeps setting them off, you might have a look for something like this.
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
In the following email to Staples after they had this problem: ...my comment about the in-store experience:
I thought you would like to know that after I bought $350 worth of merchandise, rung up by the store general manager, no less, that the anti-theft system at the front door started going off as I departed.
I stopped, turned around, and went in hoping that someone from the store would help, as indicated by the automatic alarm warning message. I'm telling you, even though there were a gaggle of sales people standing around, no one FLINCHED.
I finally started to approach one of the cashiers. From 20 feet away he called out (over the din of the alarm) "Did you pay for that?" I called
back "Yes"
He said "Why did you stop? Just keep going!"
I turned and walked out. Presumably the shoplifters would have done the same except they would not have paused at the door.
How much money does Staples have invested in this system that is completely ignored? If it's all the same to you, would you please stop
installing these systems and lower your prices? I'd rather not pay more than I have to.
Thought you'd like to know.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
If it bothers you too much after you paid for the merchandise and the alarm goes off and you are stopped by the security people, do this - After they are done searching for those items on your receipt, you tell them that now you would like to return those items as you have no desire to take them home after the embarrassment caused to you.
2 - alarm rings
3 - store bitches
4 - tell them to call the cops, because only the cops have the right to search you **AFTER** they put you under arrest; warn them that you will sue them for false arrest.
5 - they let you off, go home. That's it.
OR 5 - they don't let you off.
6 - they call the cops. Cops don't find anything.
7 - sue them for false arrest and defamation of character.
8 - profit!!!
Very often, upon finding your innocence, they will offer to settle. Some 40 years ago, an aunt got herself to choose whatever she wanted from $BIG_CANADIAN_DEPT_STORE. She chose a mink coat...
my aunt walked out of a store once and forgot to pay, and *did not* set off the alarms. when she realized what she'd done she went back to the store, and set it off going back in
By reading this, you have given me brief control of your mind.
Like many of the posters commented, I just keep on walking. I used to stop, and I used to let them look through my bags - after all, after I buy the merchandise, everything is now *mine* and not theirs. I finally got sick of it since just about every store has this problem. Now, when I'm walking and it goes off, I keep going. If anyone says anything, I keep walking. I did have someone chase me down and tell me I had to come back into the store so my bags could be searched. I hope I didn't run over his feet as I was driving away...
This is very old news so I'm not worried about the ramifications of releasing this knowledge, nevertheless I shall be anonymous...
1) Go to Wal-Mart
2) Walk up to the electronics check out desk or automotive counter desk and pull a plastic bag off of the rack.
3) Walk into the games section and pull out one (1) copy of Trivial Persuit
4) Place Trivial Persuit in bag.
5) Walk out of store.
5b) If woman is checking receipts, walk out with larger crowd of people and let them get snagged as you walk by. Ignore anyone saying "Sir.. sir.."
6) Get struck by lightning. Wal-Mart is on God's side, so you must assume that the converse it true.
Direct away from face when opening.
Self checkout lanes provide me with great amounts of fun in regards to this. It isn't that difficult to figure out which products have the sensors, and since at the self checkout you control which items get properly swiped over the deactivation pad (which is under the scale which is used as the bagging area btw). With a known active sensor, you can either cause your trouble, or you can simply keep walking and have a live sensor to use for nefarious purposes later.
I've worked in a large retail store, and I can tell you with pretty reasonable certainty that the point of such detectors is not to detect people shoplifting, but to give the greeters or store security an excuse to stop people they suspect may be stealing. I've even heard tales of security setting the alarms off on purpose to give themselves an excuse to go after someone they know to be stealing (someone who may have removed the tags from the merchendise).
But aside from that, I think previous posters have hit it on the nose when saying that they mostly function as a detterant, and retailers don't really care how reliable they are.
(Bzzzzzzz...Bzzzzzz..Bzzzzzz)
I'm just standing in line for the self-checkout when I'm watching the doorway alarm goes off at a crazy clip...
(Bzzzzzzz)
Sheesh... They never let up... Half of the kin-folks are automatic criminal suspect (Bzzzzz)...
Now, its time to pray, when my turn is up. That my time and date are decided by a crazed-fate.
(Bzzzzz)...
Drat... It got me for no good reason.... Evil eyes lurks on me from all the overflowing lines.
(Bzzzzz) Oh? It got you too? He he he...Join the crowd, buddy.
Everything I've ever read, typified by this and this, state that, yes, the store can detain you if you've been in their store, but if they turn out to be wrong, they're utterly hosed.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
See, that's the difference between Red and Blue states.
Blue state resident: "Good sir, under what authority would you be apprehending me?"
Red state resident: "Son, did you know this is a right-to-carry state?"
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
That depends on state law. If I see you commit a felony, in most states I can arrest you and detain you until the police arrive. Many states authorize merchants to detain suspected shoplifters. Usually this requires that a store employee witnesses the crime, not just because a buzzer went off. See here.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
After finally making my way through the checkout and purchasing my items, I made a beeline for the door, bypassing the twenty or thirty people standing around waiting to have their bags inspected. There was no way I was going to stand around for another twenty minutes after having stood in line for an hour already. As I approached the exit, a Fry's employee stepped in front of me and said, "I need to check your receipt, sir."
I ignored him, sidestepped, and kept walking. The moron actually grabbed my left shoulder from behind -- not forcefully, but even so it startled the crap out of me because I wasn't expecting to be grabbed. Completely by reflex, I yanked my shoulder away and punched the poor guy in the throat with my right fist (my bag was in my left hand).
It surprised me as much as it did him, and I felt kinda bad about it for a moment, but I hadn't hit him hard enough to do any real damage. He gave me a very unhappy look and made some strained coughing noises, and I walked away. In hindsight, I don't really feel bad about it at all. I had nothing personal against the guy until he touched me, but as soon as his hand landed on my shoulder, he overstepped his authority. If I'd seriously injured him, I would have felt terrible, but as it is, I think he got a good lesson in how to respect a customer's personal space.
I worked at a drug store for 3 years. All we ever did when the alarm went off was to tell the customer to ignore it and "go ahead" out the door. It's what the other employees did while i was being trained so I never questioned it. (I didn't want to get into fights with customers either) The alarm gets activated by tags placed on or inside the packaging. These tags are supposed to be deactivated by a pad under the counter at the cash register, (The pads "beep" when a tag is deactivated) but it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to. Active cellphones also used to set the alarm off and cause the pads to beep, forcing us to shut them off. Since the tags that activate the alarm are usually placed on the outside of the packaging, people who want to steal would just take the products out of the boxes before leaving the store. If you search the shelves at the end of the night you come across a lot of empty boxes of razor blades, medicines, etc. The whole system is pretty useless. It does nothing but annoy the employees and embarass the customers
I live in Michigan and have a concealed carry permit. While taking the training course for the permit we were told that sometimes your concealed weapon could set off in store alarms.
.357
I always wondered what would happen if they asked me if I was hiding and I lifted my shirt to reveal my
Legally my weapon must stay concealed, but if they really want to know...
-Tolerate my intolerance
A friend of mine ran into the same issue at a Best Buy, IIRC. They were trying to block his exit, so he demanded to see a manager, who insisted that he allow them to search him and lift his shirt. He told them to call the cops. When the manager told him that it wasn't necessary, my friend, who likes screwing with people, told him exactly why he wouldn't lift his shirt.
"If I show you what is under my shirt, some authorities might consider it brandishing a weapon."
They let him go.
This space for rent.
Good to hear. Sounds like your friend handles himself quite well under pressure.
Would have loved to seen the faces of the Best Buy employees.
-Tolerate my intolerance
I'm going to call bullshit. Maybe this happened, but it isn't as simple or innocent as you make it out to be.
1. If you weren't booked, you probably don't have an arrest record for the incident.
2. In any case, in order for it to be a "felony arrest" you would have to have been arrested and charged with Theft in the First Degree or some other felony, which you weren't. (I cited an Oregon statute because in a later post you mentioned that it was a Fred Meyer's in one of Oregon's larger towns - I'd be willing to bet it's Eugene.)
3. Even if you do have an arrest record for this incident, it'd be simple to get it expunged if you were never booked and/or prosecuted due to lack of evidence. I can only think of a few reasons that "it's not likely [you'll] succeed". One is because you have other arrests where you were booked and possibly convicted that you didn't mention in your story. It's also possible you gave the cops a hard time (yelling things like "fuck you - I didn't do anything!" over and over again... which I personally witnessed an actual shoplifter yell while he was being arrested, right after I watched them retrieve the stolen merchandise from down his pants). Giving cops a hard time makes them write little notes in their notebook about how you resisted arrest. If you didn't do anything, resisting arrest is just flat out stupid.
My guess is that you are not telling the whole truth (or whole story) here. An off-duty cop in the parking lot would have no way of knowing if a store employee told you just to keep walking, unless you didn't just "walk out". Also, most Fred Meyer's stores I've ever seen have two sets of doors at each entrance. The security scanner is on inside, so there are two sets of doors between it and the outside. How did the cop hear the alarm?
I bet you exited the store while store employees were following you out trying to get you to stop, which they can do in Eugene, among other cities in Oregon. It is also likely your demeanor left much to be desired (given that we are talking about Oregon), and the combination of things gave the officer probable cause. There is no such thing as an off-duty cop when there is reason for him/her to believe a crime is being committed.
If you had just casually walked out and nobody was chasing you and asking you to stop, then I find your scenario highly unlikely.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.