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More on IBM's Project Monterey and SCO
karvind writes "Groklaw has posted another interesting article about AIX/Monterey/POWER research. The primary purpose of Project Monterey was to provide a stepping stone to Linux. IBM clearly stated this in promotional and technical materials, some of which SCO participated in publishing. It was always the plan that Project Monterey would be for POWER and SCO knew about IBM using SVR4 on POWER as far back as 2001. The article asks (and answers) some interesting questions: 'Where is the monetary damage to SCO? Where is there copyright infringement? Was SCO fully aware how quickly Linux would develop, that it would replace Unix, or did it take them by surprise?'"
Here is the timeline for SCO vs IBM and Linux: Click here
fuvoo: watch something
Sounds cheesy doesnt it
There is no sig
looks like ibm got the better of SCO
data... check
supporting information...check
patents...gotta wait till the courts are out on this one
copyright...check
liscensing...check
having lots of high priced lawyers.....priceless.
Check journal for info on Anti-TextBook, an idea by me.
In the question and answer session at the end of the keynote (44:30 minutes into the videostream), Love was asked about the possible confict over Monterey and Linux IA-64. (A mp3 capture of the transcribed portion)
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"Surprise! Linux is great and you are trying to screw everyone! Surprise!"
Something like that...
No sig for now.
...that SCO actually launched this case on their own behalf and with some merit?
I thought it was obvious from very early on that this was a proxy attack on behalf of Microsoft against its two main enemies, IBM and Linux?
Also, clear by now that the attack failed, with heavy losses to Microsoft.
The actual contents of SCO's case seem pretty irrelevant.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Looks like GNAA fails it yet again!
I guess failing FP is the only accomplishment the GNAA is capable of getting nowadays.
- Captain Phallusbird
Linux hasn't replaced Unix.
...but why stop beating it now? Since the conclusion is pretty obvious now, the announcement I am waiting for is the final judgement on the SCO cases.
In the late 90's and early 00's, SCO was messing around with a product called LKP (Linux Kernel Personality) which was a method for allowing system calls from linux applications to the UNIX kernel.
If SCO was so anti-linux, why would they make a move to incorporate linux into its own product. That step right there discounts any claims they might have regarding linux code source.
Where is the monetary damage to SCO?
IBM used the Monterey agreement to get access to SCO's source code so that it could be combined with AIX, resulting in an enterprise-grade environment for the Intel platform. But around the same time, IBM decided that Linux was the future, and allowed the Monterey project to die. Since SCO was counting on licensing revenue from Monterey, it was screwed by IBM's switch to Linux.
Where is there copyright infringement?
SCO is claiming that instead of using its code for the Monterey project, IBM siphoned the code over to its Linux development efforts. This violated the terms of their agreement.
Was SCO fully aware how quickly Linux would develop, that it would replace Unix, or did it take them by surprise?
What SCO was or was not "fully aware" of at the time is irrelevant...the dispute is about IBM's violation of its contract with SCO.
The issue is really quite simple. IBM was supposed to use SCO's code to develop Monterey, and instead, they apparently used it to enhance Linux. Everything else being said about this case is just rehashing of religious fervor and procedural issues.
To the best of my ability to recall...
in 96-97, SCO and HP and Intel were all joined in happy hands developing what was going to become Itanium.
HP and SCO were going to merge their flavors of UNIX, as well - a move that fell apart (rumor has it) when SCO showed up to the table with something like 1/10th of the developers HP did.
Remember that it takes a while for Monterey-like deals to be created from a BizDev standpoint, maybe as much as 6-12 months - so it's likely that Monterey came about as a response from SCO's viewpoint as a substitute for the aborted HP collab. (A quick google for Monterey will turn up all sorts of anti-HP language circa 1998). IBM had nothing to lose, AIX was already a poor performer - heck up until 2000 or so the largest Sun reseller was IBM (one of the smartest things IBM did was embrace Linux).
And knowing SCO circa 1998 - I really doubt they thought of Linux as much more of a fad... a predominant source of income at that point being support contracts and services (NT 4 was the major threat to platform migration away from SCO at the time).
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
your article is good, yes. But your website is broken and plainly sucks.
No, not really.
I'm working in Monterey, CA and there's not much cheesey about the place. Lots of fish though along Cannery Row.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
That explains why SCO has yet to find a single line of code to back that up. So sez the judge too.
Yes, we all know the SCO party line, but the problem with it is the total lack of evidence two years running. Even the judge was amazed that SCO can't seem to bring up anything to back these claims in court. And when you look at the Project Monterey contract details, you see that SCO hasn't a leg to stand on.
McBain: Ahh, my eyes. The goggles do nothing.
Lets see the evidence to support your statements.
SCO actually launched this case on their own behalf and with some merit?
Of course not. There was never any merit.
this was a proxy attack on behalf of Microsoft against its two main enemies, IBM and Linux
Actually, it started out as a way for SCO executives to bail out a dying company. They threatened IBM with a bogus suit, expecting to be bought out. When they weren't, they shopped it to MS as a way to continue to make IBM's life painful, and for MS to smear Linux.
Both McBride and Sontag have publically stated this - they were "amazed" that IBM chose to fight, instead of taking the easy way out, and purchasing them.
The people who are now in charge of SCO saw that their business was failing. Their only workable solution was to get bought out and quickly. They looked at all their existing contracts and decided that they could tilt at IBM and get some attention.
This is completely unrelated to their expectations in the Monterey project, when different people were running the company with different goals.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
I wrote: ...code that IBM had developed but which allegedly (there's that word again) belonged to IBM because of ....
...code that IBM had developed but which allegedly (there's that word again) belonged to SCO because of ....
Obviously that should have been:
"Unlike IBM, virtually none of these (Linux) software developers and hobbyists had access to enterprise-scale equipment and testing facilities for Linux development."
This was back in 2001.
Pardon me, but this is blatent nonsense. SGI had a significant push to put Linux on the Itanium Processor back in 2001. I don't believe that it was announced publically then, but it was a significant effort, and the NUMA stuff resulted from it (among other things). This is definitely Enterprise-class equipment, well beyond the price range for your average "hobbyist". And needless to say, this required Enterprise-class testing. I speak from direct experience, as I was involved with the project.
So this statement alone is blatently false, and here's some more ammo for PJ to shoot down SCO's claims.
Heck, 64-bit Linux appeared on Sun's 64-bit SPARC machines before SunSoft had completed it's 64-bitization efforts as well. This was back in the Solaris 2.7 timeframe, around 1998, IIRC. Most people would consider the 64-bit SPARCs to be Enterprise level as well.
The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
If SCO/Caldera played it nice and continued on the UNIX+Linux developments, even if they could not be profitable doing it, IBM probably would have bought them out just to speed up development. Or maybe Novell would have bought Caldera instead of SuSE? Now they ruined their chances and no one wants to even talk to them. McBride, look what being greedy has done to you.
about 80% of all major internet servers run on freebsd, and hopefully everyone knows that FreeBSD is unix :). just seems an unfair statement to me.
Red Hat is for people who hate Windows, FreeBSD is for people who love Unix.
www.putertech.net
If you think Monterey is cheesy, you don't know Jack.
We are the Music Makers, and We are the Dreamers of Dreams...
I would be interested in seeing something in print from IBM about Monterey being a stepping stone to Linux. The material I have states that it is a planned common UNIX for Power, IA-32 and IA-64 processors. Also nothing about Linux in the press release linked from the Groklaw article. Monterey was more to get AIX back into the mainstream then anything else. I have never heard any plan to "phase out" or transition AIX to Linux. They are both running on IBM systems quite happily now.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
At least SCO knew about IBM using SVR4 on POWER, I never could get caldera running on anything so esoteric as electricity though. I had to read through the cheap book supplied in the boxed set, then barely get it running with my own human generated bio-chemical and electrical imagination unit.
Said the man falling off the building:
"tenth floor... so far so good"
"fifth floor... so far so good..."
Hehe. It's not the past that kills you, it's the future, dude.
...and I for one welcome our cretinous Overlord.
Monterey doesn't sound cheesy, Jack...
As far as I can tell, the UnixWare product that SCO still sells is pretty much the same product that the old Santa Cruz Operation used to sell, both as a server and desktop OS. The fact that they position it purely as a server product is purely a marketting decision.
This isnt about SCO in 2001. SCO in 2001 was run by people with intelligence.
Late '01 or '02 (I forget which)
Enter Darl McBride, a man who is where he is through wild accusations and lawsuits.
Then this shit starts.
Now, do the math.
The people responsible for the earlier timelines have been sacked.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Al right, enough already. This SCO suit has become so absurd that no one is buying it anymore. It's time to drop the act, and admit the truth. ... so as I was saying, Linux is clearly a pirated version of SCO UNIX....
The whole SCO fiasco was just an attempt to cover up the true origins of Linux. If we could create the rumor that Linux was a pirated version of AT&T UNIX, then we wouldn't have to admit that it was really reverse engineered from the computers aboard alien spacecraft under study by project BlueBook in Area 51 of the Nellis Airforce base in Groome Lake, NV.
So there, now the secret is out!
Wait, who are those men in black suits on my front lawn? Wait, stop, what does that thing do?
****FLASH*****
"Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
Can't we just get some code to automatically shitlist IPs that post links to goat.cx?
Btw, troll, goat.cx is down. Has been for a while.
Many employees, such as Jun U Nakajima, were transfered from SCO to Caldera. So Caldera effectively did purchase the Old SCO server division.