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Tridge Releases BitKeeper-Compatible Tool
Peter Willis writes "Looking at Freshmeat today (a part of OSTG) it seems Andrew Tridgell has released the BitKeeper-compatible source code management client mentioned on slashdot recently, called SourcePuller. As part of the downloads available for the project you can also get dump files which detail how to pull data from BK trees without the use of libsp. From the README: 'SourcePuller is not intended to be a full replacement for BitKeeper. Instead, you should use SourcePuller as an interoperability tool for situations where you cannot use bk itself. SourcePuller is missing a large amount of core functionality from BitKeeper, and thus is not suitable as a full replacement.'" Article available about the release on The Register.
Perhaps because Tridge never set out to create a replacement for BK - merely a tool that would interoperate with it and enable you to get source out of a BK repository without actually running the BK client.
were you expecting to see a sig here? perhaps you'd rather see the inside of an ambulance!
But even if it didn't, why not use it to host a couple of open source files that people want?
:-) )
Do they? Now Larry's pulled the Linux BK, what *do* you need this for?
(of course that didn't stop me downloading it anyway
Nice quote, but the thing is, that's all we CAN do here. Slashdot is not a place to do software development; it isn't set up for that. It's a place for discussion. So basically, discuss, praise the author, try & review the software, but if you want to "help with code", you're in the wrong place.
Flywheels has a history of linking articles at his site, PressEsc to un-related stories and comments, in order to boost his PageRank.
He has even linked to Google to redirect to his page so that he escapes detection from mods.
Feel free to check his history.
I don't want a tool that tries to tell me how to do things. I want a tool that stays the hell out of my way and lets me do some work. Their "way things should be" is not suitable for all software development models, yet their tool is so closely tied to said model that they actively add in features to try to stop you from working any other way.
Congratulations to Tridge.
Sounds like everyone was within their rights. Which means disagreement is simply the by product of everyone being human.
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
Sometimes I am anti-comment. When I get some example code that has 10+ lines of comments per line of actual code, I usually delete most of the comments so I can see what the heck the code is actually doing. There is such a thing as too much verbosity, or at the very least, some documentation shouldn't be in the middle of the function.
On a serious note, it's good that this apparently oh so evil piece of software is finally out in the open, so that the people can see that all the fuss was about a tool that allows you to get your data that is managed by a propietary tool.
In a way it's good to have issues like this bubble up to give people a chance to really think about the fundamental principles involved in open source development.
For instance, it would be hypocritical to applaud Tridge for his work on reverse-engineering SMB to create Samba and to simultaneously criticize him for doing the exact same thing with BK.
Likewise, to criticize MS for using secrecy to make money with its products, while decrying the effect Tridge's reverse engineering has on the income of the Larry trying to feed his family by selling BK.
The principles have to hold independent of the emotional circumstances and the players of the game.
FOSS is all about the natural migration of more and more software technology into commodities. And that will inevitably be a difficult pill to swallow for anyone who has created new software that makes money for them. At some point, if the software is really useful, other competent programmers will look to produce a work-alike functionality. And it will be for the greater good of humanity as a whole because they will be able to use better tools for less money. Even as it erodes the financial benefits that accrue to one or to a few from having thought and done it first.
A happy ending would be Tridge's sofware encouraging more people to buy the BK core to interoperate with Sourcepuller. But, in the longer run, I expect a free core will eventually be developed and it will displace the proprietary one.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
And what the hell was Linus talking about? He can understand not wanting someone "riding on their coattails, solve the problem yourself" - what problem? A tool for pulling snapshots? This is not the vast mysteries of SCM being solved, this is a utility.
Ah, the first idiot posts...
First of all, as I understand it, the commercial license involved says you will not reverse engineer the product YOU licensed. SourcePuller doesn't do that if YOU use it with some other SCM - it simply interoperates. It may do that if Tridge wrote it that way, which he didn't since he wasn't a licensee in the first place.
Secondly, using SourcePuller does not "get you aside from losing a tool". That statement is just idiotic. SourcePuller gets you exactly what Tridge says - interoperability with BK.
If BK is replaced as the dominant SCM, SourcePuller will be obsolete only when no one uses BK at all. When no one uses BK at all because there is something better, what is the problem with "losing a tool"? The statement is nonsense.
As for Samba, does anybody believe Samba would exist in the form it does if Windows didn't exist? And referencing Samba's AD support as being independent of Windows is just laughable. Samba entire existence is due to the need (however temporary) for Windows interoperability.
Some of the posts on
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
"The principles have to hold independent of the emotional circumstances and the players of the game." Spoke the high morale philosofer. Back in the real world, we behave, and make laws accordingly, that are big fat principle breakers, for perfectly valid practical reasons. We can fly a flag. We cannot fly the Nazi flag. Beng. Principle violation. We can speak. We cannot speak hate propaganda. Beng. Murder bad, war good. Beng beng. The principles dont differ, the practical consequenses differ. From some flag we yell and screech. From some plane crash we war. From some hate propaganda we revolutionize. People do the same on every level, we find 10 bucks, we keep it, we find 100 bucks, we go to the police. We will see who is right; if BK goes bankrupt, it was Linus.
Linus was just keeping the boat afloat. The Linux and FOSS communities are sailing around on the oceans with very powerful allies and foes all around us. IBM has turned out to be one of our strongest allies, by providing us protection. The War on Intellectual Property is coming soon.
By doing what he did, Tridge is further defining the ground rules that the *real* hackers agree too. As has already been said, he did the reverse engineering on his own time, without ever having used the BitKeeper program. Lessons Learned: Reverse engineering on your own time is absolutely an ethical and allowed activity.
The more I think about it, the biggest winner in all this is the GPL license. It will now have a custom code management application built around working with GPLed code.
Wow.... I have to say... I wish all programmers commented the way you do.
What I personally hate is the way many programmers often try to tell me how their code works using comments. These are dangerous. Whitespace provides hints as to how to read how it works, but the code has to be your authoritative point for that: SPOT principle at work (comments should not get outdated).
If the code does not speak for itself, it is bad code and should be rewritten.
Now........ When you do comment... Don't tell me HOW your code works! However, it is perfectly reasonable to tell me why you make a specific decision. For example: "Sorry, this code is ugly. However, I can't come up with a better answer at the moment." or "This code here is to prevent an SQL-Injection attack." Or even "As per RFC. Sorry folks, FTP to Mars won't work."
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP