Slashdot Mirror
Email Worse Than Marijuana For Intelligence?
wallykeyster writes "The Guardian is reporting that a recent study at King's College indicates that the average IQ loss of email users was 10 points (or six points more than cannabis users). Details on The Register as well. The Register has a related story about how computers make kids dumb and an apparent "problem-solving deficit disorder" observed in children who use computers. I thought it was television that rotted your brain?"
If anything was going to make you dumber, I would hav thought Google would be to blame. If you can't figure something out, just Google it.
I think these studies are purposely focused on certain areas where they know the outcome of their own study.
Like the difference in examining crime in a low income area vs a high income area. [ / suspicion ]
Slashdot. Seriously its worse than email, at least email has an actual productive purpose, with slashdot we just waste our time posting things that will have no actual benefit - look im doing it now!
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I have one word for you:
MUDs
These old text games have probably been the cause of more skipped final exams and lost study time than any two modern games together.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
is revolting. If you're naturally lazy or stupid and you use the computer, play video games, email obsessively, or smoke pot to excess, yes, you're going to get caught in it and probably get stupider over time.
But if you're naturally smart or motivated, the opposite is true. I've known people that smoked pot all through college and graduated early with amazing grades. I'm sure amongst the people you know, you can think of the video game addict that gets all A's and the video game addict that flunked out years ago.
These things are just enablers. That's why, especially with pot, you should be of sound mind and body before you turn the machine on or pack the pipe. It makes the difference between expanding your mind and escaping from it.
"[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
Sheesh. What in the hell happened to parents just saying "No" instead of treating kids like royalty? This Just In: you can love your offspring while still denying them things, despite what your idiot neighbor claims.
I am only a child of the 70s, but it's certainly a different, wussier, world out there than I remember.
-
Inventor of the term 'pardon my French'.
finished a discussion about how to remove the game from the pc whilst making it look like an accident
Perhaps what will help is insulting the intelligence of your "brilliant student" of a son, by refusing to be straightforward and upfront with him?
You think that's bad... 2 of my college friends dropped out of college because of Everquest. They spent ALL day playing it and not going to class because they felt that they needed to keep up with their guild members, etc. They were on scholarship, which they lost. Eventually they dropped out of college. It's sad but games can be very addicting, just like a lot of things. Games are designed to be addicting, that's how they make their money. I'm guilty of being an addict as well, but to cycling. The good thing is that when I'm cycling, I'm in so much pain that there's a limit to how much I do it. Computer games, on the other hand, has no such mechanism. I think the pain comes later when the rest of your life suffers as in the case of my friends. So maybe instead of immediate reward and delayed punishment, they should make it delayed reward and immediate punishment, like cycling :-) Then again, a game like that will never sell.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
I can totally relate passthecrackpipe. (odd name for such a....umm...mature post). My little brother is 16 now and ever since he was about 11 or 12 he's had a problem with letting computer games controlling his life that has gotten progressively worse and worse. Although he does keep up with his grades (because if they plummet he knows he will lose his computer priveledges until they come back up). Try that with your son, that is remove or severely restrict his gaming time until he gets those grades up. I think that would help solve your problem.
But it won't end there, let me assure you. Even though my brother keeps his grades up, he spends *all* his free time playing games, reading about games, and pretty much nothing but games. He doesn't go outside. He doesn't socialize with others. He just wants to get online and "pwn pplz with hiz 1337 skillz". (-_-) In the past my parents had been pretty damn lax about this, even though they knew it was a problem, and I insistently pressured them to make him do something else, anything else but play games! I'm afraid that this problem is only going to grow exponentially for each generation as kids start to grow up on games and let them control their lives. As parents, guardians, or whatever you are, I urge you all to remind your younger family members that games are great, but they should try doing other things with their lives. Otherwise, they will never know how many great things they are capable of doing in this world.
Hero of Allacrost, a FOSS RPG for *NIX/*BSD/OS X/Win
I think this is the big thing: educational games are dead, except for stupid multimedia treehouse and barbie games. Puzzle games are no longer things like The Incredible Machine and Lemmings, that actually give you _problem solving_ skills, but twitch-puzzles like Tetris and Chu-Chu Rocket (which are fun by their own right, but not mind-expanding).
Where's my Island of Dr. Brain?
Why do you hate blaming parents so much? It's their job to raise their kids, and nearly every problem a child has can be directly related to his parents' (lack of) parenting. The original poster is a perfect example. Rather than addressing the problem, he's scheming with his wife to "accidentally" remove the game. What's his son going to learn from this? That it's okay to neglect his responsibilities (even at 5 years old, you have them -- education, playing, being a kid)? That mommy and daddy are real klutzes with the computer, so he should start learning how to hide what he's doing? In this case, it may or may not be the parents' fault that the kid got so wrapped up in the game (it probably is -- they didn't limit his play time, or set down ground rules), but if they go through with the planned course of action they are absolutely responsible for what that teaches the child.
It's not my job to parent your kids, nor is it the government's job, nor teachers, school administrators, day care employees, etc. It's your kid, you teach him how to be responsible. If you can't handle that, perhaps you should reconsider being a parent. Harsh? Sure. But throwing more tax dollars at poorly parented children isn't going to solve the problem, either. You have to fix the problem, and the problem is usually the parents (or parent, in more and more cases).
I had college friends who dropped out because of MUDs... couldn't stop playing them, even to the detriment of their schoolwork. It was easy to find them, though. They never left the computer labs..
:)
Of course all I call that is a lack of discipline. Like this "brilliant" kid. Tell him _NO_ once in a while so he can get used to it when he grows up... and maybe he won't be Everquest (or MUD) fodder.
Spoiled little brats... getting all that they can possibly want, and appreciating none of it.
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
>>"not unacceptable"
>why the fuck didn't you just say acceptable?
"not full" != empty
the world isn't binary.
that's why.
Demonstrant's Open Source Tools
Go to flea markets, yard sales, and library sales (where they get rid of old books that are worn or no longer popular).
Our older two share a bedroom, and they have over 500 books just on their own shelves. I think the oldest has probably read 90% of them. My wife and I have at least 2000 on shelves around the house.
And yes, we let them play computer games. The oldest will play Zoombinis for a while, but then get tired of it and dig out a book. Good fiction includes complex characters and plots which just don't exist in the games I've seen, and satisfies a desire for interesting material in a way that gaming doesn't.
But we do avoid TV. I think TV is worse than computer games because they stop every 2 minutes for a bunch of 15-second commercials in which a dozen dancing bunnies sing about toilet paper. It's the constant shifting that wrecks your attention span -- playing a single game at your own pace for a while doesn't have the same effect.
It would be hard to convince me that playing chess against the computer for two hours is as bad for your brain as watching two hours of commercial TV.
Intelligence has no specific definition. Some people might say that being able to make people laugh is a form of intelligence, for example.
IQ measures a very narrow set of skills which aren't massively useful in real life. You'll get much further in life by being influential in social situations, or by being able to make good decisions for example.
It seems that the temporary loss of IQ test skill was purely due to the questions being popped up at random intervals.
The parents who lie to their own children in order to avoid any emotional interaction with their child are the parents who need to learn. There simply is no way around it.
I've seen families with stronger parents and familes with weaker parents, and it is blatently obvious what the impact on the children is. The weaker parents have children who don't share well, who are difficult to be around, who are difficult to trust, and are generally just little shits all around. The children who have a more balanced home life are a pleasure to be around. It doesn't take a Ph.D. in psychology to see this.
Games addictive? I don't buy it. It sounds to me like your friends don't have an addiction problem, they have a self-discipline problem. They want to forego stuff that is important but hard in favor of stuff that is entertaining and easy. It's a simple matter of short-term gratification (another level) versus long-term satisfaction (a degree). That paper can always be written tomorrow, one can always cram for the next exam, but my guildmates need me NOW!
If I were a betting man, I would wager that if they weren't invovled in Everquest, they would have found some other diversion to consume their time and cause them to drop out of college.
I think this kind of misses the point. Your son has acquired functional skills for manipulating the computer. This does not correspond to a gain in IQ points. In fact, TFA suggests that children who spend time (and by extension brainpower) on gaining these skills tend to lose IQ points as measured by our standard methods.
Now, there's a major argument to be made that these skills in current society may actually be much more valuable than the lost IQ points (which, in my opinion, have dubious value anyway), but it's really a different issue. Point is, you can't say your son is gaining IQ points faster than other children because he knows how to minimize windows.
And certainly not because he knows you run Linux.
Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
Don't lie to your kid.
There is no need to remove the game.
Limit his time on the game, use it as reward and punishment. If he won't respond to you when he is playing pull the plug out of the wall, it will get his immediate attention. Learn to say NO, don't appoligise for saying NO, and follow through. Your kid will have alot more respect for you in the long run.
I'm a child of the fifties, it may be wussier today but I'm glad bashing your kids has become an unacceptable practice.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I will forever be greatful to 2 excellent high school teachers I had (in public school no less!), 1 in math (pre-calc, calc) and 1 in chemistry (chem1 and chem2AP). They wouldn't let us use calculators for anything, not on tests, not on homework, no where. This forced us to get good at doing all sorts of mathmatics in our heads, and to come up with creative solutions if we couldn't remember the specific function/equation to apply to a problem.
I often times would have to work around some equation I couldn't remember and basically derive the equation from smaller building blocks. This gave me a much greater understanding of the actual processes going on. This kind of problem solving/understanding completely disappears when children can use calculators to simply "get the right answer", but the important thing in the maths and sciences is not necessarily the answer, but the process of getting there, and the ability to problem solve, which has completely disappeared in US middle and high schools.
I think I agree with most of the posts here, especially Oliver's.
I am currently a high-achieving high school junior. I have liked to play games since I started playing MUDs at age 12. However, my parents never felt bad telling me "no". Because my parents were frank in what activities should be my priorities, I learned both to moderate my gaming and to put school work first.
I am now getting the chance to watch my parents do the same to my brother. He followed my lead and started gaming in the last year. My parents are still making it clear that school work must come first. He hasn't yet gotten it, but he will.
Meanwhile, I have friends who were also straight-A, honors students in 9th grade, but who are now B students in regents classes (the lowest level in my school) for six hours of the day, and are Everquest and World of Warcraft grinders for the other sixteen.
I bet their parents would be happier if they had just said "no".
Fitzghon
My son is about a year old. My wife became pregnant before we got married, so you might say he was unforeseen.
There are two things about watching people parent that never cease to amaze me.
The first is how many people can rise to the occasion and do a good job when it is not what one would expect of them.
The second is how otherwise intelligent and responsible people can completely fail to take responsibility for how their actions affect their children.
So I say that parenting is never something that people are ready for. It is something that people can rise up to do. But before you have a child of oyur own, you are simply unprepaired.
Now on to the rest of the discussion. The metaphore I use in looking at this is that of social laws and rules. If the government were to "accidently" confiscated our cars or our houses, we would have a fit and rightly so. If, however, this was based upon a conviction in a court of law, it would be different. One of the most difficult aspects of family building is focusing on how to create a system of rules which helps foster growth. These rules need to be in the open, and easily understood.
If your child is playing too many computer games, first talk to your child about it. Set rules regarding when your child is allowed to play the game and under what circumstances. If this fails, let the child know that the game will be uninstalled. Give, say, three opportunities for failure. If the game is abused such that the conversation must repeat three times, the game gets uninstalled. Make sure that this is all done in the open and that the system is transparent.
One of the most difficult things to do sometimes is to have enough respect for your kids to think that maybe they actually need to know why you are doing something.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Actually, we covered it in my INtro to Psych class this semester.
Permissive parenting - bad, kids are underachievers, have low self-esteems, antisocial, drug users, etc.
AUthoritarian parenting (like the 50s) - still bad. Kids grow up with serious problems with authority. Kids split off, one group becomes criminals, the other group will conform for awhile and then during their midlife crisis completely uproot themselves and start fresh. All will have low self-worth and so forth.
So how do you win?
Um, read Oliver's post? ;)
Personally, I think my wife and I are on the riht track. My daughter spent 4 hours rebelling aainst cleaning her room tonight, a typical 20-minute cleaning job. In the process she missed a movie and storytime. She was pretty upset about it and whined a bit about "I can't sleep because I didn't read a story", but it didn't take her long to figure it out. She's starting to come around. :)
Her brother, in contrast, cleaned his room immediately and was done in 10 minutes. He got to watch the movie and had storytime before bed. He also got to play with both his parents a little bit along the way. He's 1 1/2 years younger than his sister. The 1-year old (almost 2) helped pick up a bit too. :)
Like what I said? You might like my music
Permissive parenting - bad
Children learn from their parents in many ways the parent doesn't expect. The problem with "permissive" parenting - if the parent has broad values then not necessarily any problem, but in this sense I think the meaning is submissive parenting - avoid confrontation even when you think the child is wrong. In this case, the child will learn the same pattern of behaviour, and will grow to not argue his case as a teenager. This leads to the low self-esteem etc, that you're talking about.
The authoritarian approach? Your child will learn that power equates to right, that the ability to punish replaces the need to justify.
The middle approach? Always speak up, never act without explanation. Listen to child so that child learns to use reason to get her way. Above all, avoid yelling and other resorts of force / power. 'Cause very soon, your child will be using the same techniques on you.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.