Slashdot Mirror
Interest in CS as a Major Drops
Dasein writes "The Computer Research Association says that the popularity of CS as a major among freshman has dropped in the last four years. Why is obvious to anybody working in the field. They conclude by saying 'With a fall in degree production looming, it is difficult to see how CS can match expected future demand for IT workers without raising women's participation at the undergraduate level.'"
Besides, if there's a an employee shortage, salaries are more likely to stay high.
With the offshoring of certain types of work, I must wonder if the number of IT jobs in the U.S. is actually going to shrink---at least in relative numbers, rather than increase over then next decade. It'll all be interesting, I'm sure.
This is not my sandwich.
You simply can't take statistics from one university and assume that they're not indicative of a universal trend either. I teach computer engineering at a major public university in the midwestern US, and we are seeing trends exactly like UCLA. If you follow the link in TFA to the Taulbee survey, which encompasses all of North America, you'll see that the data there is consistent with UCLA's findings.
There's plenty of work for those of us already (or still) in IT... and plenty of competition as well.
Unlike many who saw the bursting of the ".COM bubble" as the arrival of apocalypse... I saw it as simply a time to separate the wheat from the chaff. Seems to me there were a lot of people who were in IT in 1999-2000 who had no business being there. I can't tell you how many times I heard fresh grads say "You mean I have to actually PROGRAM?!"
Not trying to knock anyone here, but if someone is trying to enter a field simply because they think there's money in it, they won't be there very long. Maybe that's what's going on here now.
Just my $0.02...
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
I'm a student at one of the biggest universities in Sydney; and right across Australia we're seeing just the same trend.
:)
You're correct; the article's conclusions don't necessarily follow from the data they have, but they're still right
'No publisher will ever pay you enough to successfully sue them' - Dave Sim
. . . voila they've discovered something that the Math majors have taken for granted since 1600.
.the others are making a ton of money in the real world.
Except for the fact that they get it wrong. There should be no difference in the comp sci program and the math program for the first two years.
. .
And they're welcome to it, but they should still learn their math. It is the basis of engineering and compute-ers.
No, I'm not ensconced in the ivory tower. I've been out in the real world for decades, banging my head against the wall dealing with all the problems that "engineers" create with their "practical solutions," that ignore even the most basic of mathematical "theory."
KFG
Throw in some Slashdot posts and it becomes an absolute metaphysical certitude.
Most people working in IT probably won't benefit from computer science degrees. Moreover, someone really interested in IT, should probably transfer to their university's school of business and, if possible, enroll in whatever their equivalent of an "Information Technology" degree is. Such programs usually have a number of IT classes, e.g. databases & networking (both with a much more applied slant then you would get in a typical CS class on the same topic), but also provide students with enough knowledge of business that they'll be able to more effectively interact with the high ups in the company when it comes to such things as policy making and infrastructure planning. Alternatively, there are also some two year programs that strictly focus on IT skills.
Why? Well any CS program worth its salt doesn't focus on teaching people how to admin Windows Server 2003, or Oracle administration. Rather, it focuses on teaching people about theories computation, algorithms, and, on the more applied side, best practices in software engineering. This kind of training will make some one a better programmer or software engineer, but it wouldn't necessarily be even that the relevant to the individual deciding which routers to buy or even the one installing set routers
<rant> Okay, so maybe I am little bit peeved when people ask me how to do such and such in Microsoft Word or Windows XP, and the looks they give me when I tell them I don't know. It's like they think it's so inexplicable that I don't know since some of the core classes for CS majors *must* be esoteric document formatting in Microsoft Word, and Windows XP - Why sometimes it can't connect to the network printer. </rant>
If writing code is all the CS program expects from majors, I'd encourage both men and women to leave immediately. While algorithmic thinking and coding is essential to a computer science degree, there's so much more to it that even people who don't like to code should find a niche there. No wonder women leave if the program emphasizes CS==coding.
I've got a MSc from CS and after the novelty wore off I have found coding boring. But I'm a respected professional in my area, security.
First, a Master's degree is not regarded as that big of a deal. Second, computer science is more mathematics than it is programming. Being a good computer scientist does not mean you can code well in terms of style and such.
A person's ability to architect depends on the area they studied. If they have a phd in software engineering, they'd likely be good at architecting. Also, if they studied algorithms, they could easily out design seasoned programmers.
Also keep in mind that research is not at all the same as doing mundane implementation. While people here seem to enjoy dumping on grads, they always forget to mention that while a cs phd or master can enter the job market without difficulty, someone from the job market is wholly inadequate to do research at a university level.
People with phds should be looking for research jobs, because that is what they are trained for. Many bigger companies offer positions that generally *require* a phd or masters. If you asked a nuclear engineer to program, they would not necessarily be steller at it. Please stop comparing cs phd's with programmers.