Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Jobs Claims Microsoft Is Shamelessly Copying

Posted by Zonk on from the nah-nah dept.

Nicholas Roussos writes "Steve Jobs was outspoken at a recent annual shareholder meeting. He claimed 'They are shamelessly copying us', referring to Microsoft. Of course, Microsoft has done its share of pointing fingers as well." From the article: "Most telling, Jobs said is that Tiger, the next version of Mac OS X, will go on sale later this month, while Longhorn is still more than a year away."

21 of 868 comments (clear)

  1. Who's copying whom by Flexible+Typhoon · · Score: 5, Informative
    From Who's Copying Who article:

    Search: Tiger will feature a built-in local search technology called "Spotlight" (technology built upon the search engines that Apple currently uses to search iTunes and e-mail). Microsoft has said it plans to offer a similar local-machine search engine for Longhorn that will be based on the company's Windows File System (WinFS) technology.

    Scripting:Tiger will include a front-end scripting environment known as "Automator." Longhorn will include a new scripting shell (currently in beta test) known as "Monad."

    Built-in RSS support: Tiger will embed an RSS aggregator into the Safari browser. Longhorn will include an embedded RSS feature in the user interface.

    Info-Display Panel: Tiger will have an information-display capability called "Dashboard." Longhorn will have an information-display panel called "Sideshow," to which users can "pin" collections of items of interest.

    Integrated Instant Messaging/Video Chat: Tiger will feature a souped-up version of iChat. Microsoft will embed Windows Messenger (a sister to MSN Messenger), which also will likely feature video-chat.

    64-Bit Support: Tiger will include extended 64-bit capabilities. Longhorn allegedly will be optimized for 64-bit systems.

    As many an Apple advocate has pointed out, Tiger is set to debut at least a year before Longhorn. That's a pretty significant head start, especially for folks who have no corporate edicts, application constraints or other limitations on which hardware/software platform they choose.

    --
    Nazi Pope Emblem
    1. Re:Who's copying whom by ezavada · · Score: 4, Informative

      Search: Maybe I'm missing something, but name one somewhat modern OS without a built in search function.

      At least with search, I think the main point is how thoroughly it's integrated with the entire OS, and how omnipresent it is. While not revolutionary, I think it's at least a nice evolutionary step.

      Info Display Panel: No idea what this is. But it sounds like a web browser to me. It could be the single thing in this list worth fighting about though.

      At least for OS X, it's like a layer of windows that contain small useful utilities that are usually hidden but can be overlayed on the screen with a touch of a button. You can see a demo here. For OS X, this seems like a nice useability enhancement that fits well with Expose, their window management feature. Unfortunately I've never seen a demo of the similar feature in Longhorn, can anyone provide a link?

    2. Re:Who's copying whom by rokzy · · Score: 5, Informative

      >Search: Maybe I'm missing something, but name one somewhat modern OS without a built in search function.

      yes, like most other people, you are missing something.

      this is built into pretty much everything. for example if you open the system preferences and want to know where a setting is you type it into the search bar and it will highlight where it is no matter how deep linked. this will happen in real-time as you type and will be instant. I have never seen anything like this on Mac, Windows or linux before. usually you have to open a separate help application/window and do a long search on contents or select something from an index.

      have you used iTunes? compare its live-updating search with the Windows/linux type-then-press-enter-then-wait-a-bit. it's not just evolutionary, its like the difference between going through various Yahoo portal screens or just Googling something. searching will always just be a variation on a theme, it's the *user interface* to the search that makes the difference between awkward and genius.

      also, the results of *anything* are included in this instant, live-updating search. I love the prospect of having loads of PDFs of scientific papers and not needing any order to the filenames or directories because I can search for the relevant content and it will be much easier to adapt my filter as I go because I'll see how many results are being returned.

      just imagine not just the invention of Google, but a Google that would change its results in real-time and which would do web page, image, PDF search etc. all at the same time. everyone accepts Google has changed the web but is so blind to how Spotlight changes the desktop even more.

    3. Re:Who's copying whom by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dashboard isn't and Konfabulator wasn't HTML, it's JavaScript. Nor is it located on the desktop, the desktop is the plane underneath all your windows. Dashboard brings in another plane in front of all the other windows with a hotkey.

    4. Re:Who's copying whom by daviddennis · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think Apple has a pretty good claim for this, actually.

      It looks like HyperCard was the first scripting language, if that is defined as a programming language designed in such a way that "mere mortals" could use it for serious work.

      Then AppleScript was developed as the first system-wide scripting language. It was developed in 1994. Windows Scripting Host was developed and shipped as part of Windows 98.

      So it looks like in this direction, Apple was a genuine pioneer and deserves the respect that flows therefrom.

      D

    5. Re:Who's copying whom by Aphrika · · Score: 4, Informative

      Credit for system-wide scripting languages goes to Xerox PARC and SmallTalk on the Alto. Smalltalk formed the inspiration for HyperCard and later AppleScript.

      You also have AREXX on the Amiga (1985), RiscOS on the Archimedes was also fully scripted (1987), and you could argue that the MS-DOS command shell (1979) and batch filing methods are akin to an OS-wide scripting language, particularly as a major goal of AppleScript was to make up for the Mac's lack of a CLI. Interesting to note that the opposite happened for NT 3.51 - the MS-DOS shell was slated for removal, but left in to fulfil the role of system scripting.

  2. Re:More customers by argent · · Score: 3, Informative

    If M$ had a customer base as small as Apple's, I'm sure they'd be able to put out new releases every six months as well.

    Apple's putting out new major versions about every 18 months these days.

  3. Re:didn't apple steal... by ltbarcly · · Score: 5, Informative

    They licensed the GUI and the mouse from Xerox. Stop getting your knowledge "out of the air" and look it up. Xerox was paid a significant amount for them, including apple stock.

  4. Re:Copy... by CrackedButter · · Score: 5, Informative


    (You cannot even post without being anonymous, shows you stand by your comment) . Why is this falsehood still presented as fact? Apple licensed the GUI from Xerox but MS copied their desktop metaphor from Apple. How many times does it need repeating until the trolls and the uninformed shut the fuck up and bring different points to the table?

    --
    Jonathanjk.com
  5. Re:This has popped up before by CrackedButter · · Score: 5, Informative

    Going with the flawed metaphor, Steve actually licensed the TV.

    --
    Jonathanjk.com
  6. Re:More copied features by thbbpt · · Score: 4, Informative

    We all know Apple invented the ... Media Center PC, PocketPC, XBox, ...

    Yeah, they're called Mac TV, Newton, and Pippin.

    --
    -Bb
  7. Windows took 9 years to copy Mac OS by peter303 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Those of us not born yesterday remember Bill Gates vaporware announcement of "Windows" soon after the original Mac came out. The first usable version of Windows was version 3.1 released in 1993, nine years after the original Mac OS. Windows was a shameless imitation of the Mac OS (both copied Xerox OS). MicroSoft had a year headstart in working with the MacOS because it wrot important Apps like Multiplan.

  8. Re:More copied features by SteveM · · Score: 4, Informative

    TabletPC

    Newton ...

    Media Center PC

    Except for TV, any Mac with iLife ... and there was an Mac with a TV tuner built in ...

    Pocket PC

    Newton again ...

    XBox

    Pippin ...

    To mention nothing of Palm, ReplayTV/Tivo, Nintendo, and so on. Not one of these "innovations" from MS is truly innovative. Perhaps the only innovative item above is the Newton, and Alan Kay had the idea with his Dynabook first.

    Copying is usually how progress happens. Even the most innovative product is build upon prior ideas.

    SteveM

  9. Re:didn't apple steal... by ClosedSource · · Score: 3, Informative

    Then how do you explain this quote from The New York Times?:

    "In the suit, filed last Thursday, Xerox accused Apple of unlawfully using, in two of its computers, copyrighted Xerox software that controls desktop computers. Xerox also argues that Apple has undermined Xerox's ability to license its own software widely by suing two other companies marketing similar software."

    The suit was eventually thrown out and perhaps Apple bought a license later, but it's clear that Xerox believed their interface had been stolen.

    By the way, in those days it was often assumed that copyright covered not only source code, but "look and feel" as well.

  10. Re:This has popped up before by gumbi+west · · Score: 4, Informative
    Uh, Xerox didn't do much of anything. It was all Apple and its employees.

    Basically, Xerox had point and click for selecting text, there no 'click on a file to open it' or any other GUI features in the OS, just in one word processor. Read the article, it is a great read.

    It really is too bad that there are so many M$ fanboys out there who need to believe that Apple isn't the big inovator of the OS world.

  11. Re:Nope, analogy still works. by Queer+Boy · · Score: 5, Informative
    At Xerox Parc, the GUI they developed only contained icons for verbs. Cut, copy, paste. There were no icons for nouns, which is where Apple innovated. Apple also invented the pulldown menu. Meaning a stable menu where menus dropped down. That's just a few of the things they came up with. Xerox got Apple stock based on the ability of letting them SEE what they were doing, not actually get any code or know HOW it was done.

    The truth of the matter is Xerox invented the wheel and Apple went and invented the Maserati.

    --
    Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
  12. Re:Deja vu... by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 4, Informative

    Xerox was paid apple stock for apple to look at the stuff that Xerox did not care about.

    soo...

    how is that stealing?

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  13. Re:My favorite OSX to Windows feature... by Queer+Boy · · Score: 5, Informative
    Apple's Dock was a similar nod to the popularity of the taskbar in Windows

    You make me laugh, really hard, too. This is Slashdot, you know, you shouldn't say such assinine things like the Dock comes from the taskbar. Let's see a raise of hands for everyone who knows where the Dock comes from.

    --
    Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
  14. Re:Imitation by macmurph · · Score: 5, Informative

    So tell me why Apple remains stagnant at 3% of the desktop market and it's biggest commercial success in years has been the iPod.

    Simple, it's not stagnant.

    Forbes Magazine: The conversion rate of iPod customer base to the Macintosh platform from PC "implies two points of global PC market share gain for Apple in 2005," to 5% from 3%, said Morgan Stanley, adding that the conversion rate for iPod owners could track closer to the 25% range going forward from 19%.

    http://www.forbes.com/markets/2005/03/18/0318autom arketscan10.html

  15. Re:My favorite OSX to Windows feature... by learn+fast · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Mac OS X dock is a clone of the NeXTSTEP dock, which predates Windows 95.

    In fact, much of Mac OS X's interface is strikingly similar to that of NeXT, as is evident from those videos that were posted to ./ a few months back.

  16. Re:Time Machine by aristotle-dude · · Score: 4, Informative
    Of course it does. Apple "bought" NeXT and Steve Jobs came along with the deal as did many of their engineers. OS X "is" NeXT Step 5.x+.

    Interface builder? Yup, Interface objects stored in .nibs? Yup. Has a dock? Yup. Has a Shelf? Yup. Implements the Open Step API? Yup (Cocoa). Uses Objective C? Yup. System objects start with NS? Yes sir.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.