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China Announces Unix-compatible Server OS

Posted by Hemos on from the the-red-giant-awakes dept.

swe writes " It looks as though the Chinese government has come up with their own Operating System. Called, Kylin, it is focused on high performance, availability and security. The kernel is similar to Mach with BSD-like system service layer and Windows-like desktop environment. It is supposedly Unix standards compliant and is also compatible with Linux binaries. Could there be another contender? "

48 comments

  1. Quick! by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 2

    Grep the source for GPL code!

    --
    OLPC Australia
    1. Re:Quick! by MarkGriz · · Score: 1

      "Grep the source for GPL code!"

      Yup, just as I thought. It's just Linux with a boot screen that says "Hacked by Chinese!"

      --
      Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
    2. Re:Quick! by kagaku · · Score: 1

      And just who are you going to complain to if there is a bunch of GPL'd code? :)

      --
      everyday is another shooter.
  2. Who would use this without a gun to their head? by adb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have enough trouble trusting NSA-enhanced Linux. What are the chances this doesn't have nasty spyware and/or censorware built right in?

    1. Re:Who would use this without a gun to their head? by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      Maybe it has something like an NSAkey?

      --
      OLPC Australia
    2. Re:Who would use this without a gun to their head? by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      I think if people can trust Microsoft, they can be convinced to trust the Chinese government, at least when it comes to software.

      --
      OLPC Australia
    3. Re:Who would use this without a gun to their head? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      What's your issue with NSA Linux? I suppose it's natural to suspicious where the NSA is involved. But the software's open-source -- and the whole point of open source is that trust is based on independent review of the source code, not the promises of the software vendor.

  3. Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by torpor · · Score: 1

    $10 says there are spy hooks all over the place.

    If they release the source, sure. But binaries-only OS's from shifty gov't types .. no thanks.

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    1. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      Governments - even the Chinese government - are more open than many corporations. Who's to say that the Chinese government is less open than Microsoft?

      I have found it odd that Americans (from what I've seen anyway) are so distrustful of governmental organisations yet so willing to trust a corporation. While I'm naturally distrustful of both, at least I vote for my government, and governments (in my country anyway) have safeguards imposing a degree of openness and accountability. How open is Microsoft? Did you vote for its board? Can you request to have copies of internal company documents?

      --
      OLPC Australia
    2. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by torpor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have found it odd that Americans (from what I've seen anyway) are so distrustful of governmental organisations yet so willing to trust a corporation.

      Corporations don't use Tanks to Shut Down Protest.

      At least, not yet they don't. And corporations have to ultimately answer to the government. Very few governments actually answer to anybody ..

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    3. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      Corporations these days hold tremendous sway over governmental decisions. Look how quickly Microsoft got off the hook once Bush won the 2000 election and put Ashcroft in charge of the Department of Justice.

      It looks to me that governments are increasingly answering to corporations. Don't pass our proposals? No more 'soft money' campaign donations for you. Don't do things our way? We'll just move our company offshore.

      --
      OLPC Australia
    4. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      "Very few governments actually answer to anybody"

      They answer to their voters. If they misbehave, it's the job of the voters to kick them out. If this isn't happening, you need to wonder how well your democracy is really working. Most countries have constitutions, and even governments must abide by laws.

      --
      OLPC Australia
    5. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by scupper · · Score: 1

      Corporations don't use Tanks to Shut Down Protest.

      No, they just eviscerate their worker's pensions and leave them penniless. Stay tuned,
      China 2020 Tour
      Keynote speaker:Ken Lay
      "Guns and Butter: What I learned from screwing other capitalists"

    6. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 1

      Didn't corporations (ITT, I think) use fighter jets to shut down Chile's elected government after they nationalized the phone infrastructure within their borders?

    7. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by toddbu · · Score: 1
      ... at least I vote for my government

      And I vote for corporations all the time with my wallet. If I don't like their services then I switch. I'm never forced to use any platform that I don't want, even if it doesn't have the software I like. I can either learn to live without, or I can use that platform just for what I need it to do and no more. For many people, the days of being locked into a single vendor solution are over.

      On a somewhat related note, I find it interesting that there are people who actually buy stocks and then do things like vote at the company meetings. I guess if you're interested in that kind of thing then it's probably a lot of fun, but if you purchase shares to make money then you should be voting with your wallet. Companies know that they need to attract investors and customers, which is why they're so worried about their stock price. It also forces them to be somewhere near neutral when it comes to social issues, as we've seen recently with Microsoft.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    8. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Look how quickly Microsoft got off the hook once Bush won the 2000 election and put Ashcroft in charge of the Department of Justice.

      While you're at it, take a look at how this administration managed to free the tobacco industry from the threat of RICO.

    9. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you're aware that soft money is all but completely gone? Hard money is still as good as ever when you send it to the political party at large and not a particular candidate. That money pays for "issue ads" and the like.

      Same old shit, really. And they'll move offshore anyway.

      Ashcroft being AG was a victory for the religious right, not corporate.

    10. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by cpeterso · · Score: 1


      At least you have multiple choices of corporations. There is only one government.

      --
      cpeterso
    11. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      Voting is intended to ensure that each person gets one vote. Theoretically (discounting 'donations' and other possible avenues for corruption) you have just as much voting power as Bill Gates. Is your wallet as big as Bill's? The largest customers of most corporations are other corporations. Your wallet doesn't even register as a blip on their radar.

      --
      OLPC Australia
    12. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by toddbu · · Score: 1
      My wallet doesn't need to be as big as Bill's in order to have a voice. The Internet is turning out to be the great equalizer, and politicians are beginning to fear the 'net a lot more than they do people with money. This is why you see people trying to enact laws to control it. I'm not sure how you feel about groups like MoveOn.org, but they've shown what a grass-roots campaign can do if well mobilized. No big bucks necessary, just some folks with a good idea, a couple of computers, and a big, fat pipe to the Internet. (For what it's worth, I'm not a big fan of MoveOn.org, but I still respect their activism.)

      As for your comment about my wallet not counting with big corporations, don't be too quick to dismiss the small wallet. Yes, Microsoft caters to large corporations, but what ultimately drives technology are the thousands of people who use it every day and know it best. A quick look at history confirms this. Microsoft beat IBM by going to the desktop and getting those users to demand change. Now F/OSS is doing the same because people want more bang for the buck. Microsoft has pretty much abandoned the casual desktop user in favor of serving corporate interests, yet consumers are demanding sub-$100 PCs. Microsoft in it's current form can't deliver this. And as the Red Hat debacle shows, abandon your base and it will come back to haunt you. It just takes longer with companies like Microsoft.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    13. Re:Sure, Trust an OS from The Government. by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      The fact that political websites can be established is a good thing. It shows that people are exercising their rights to freedom of speech and expression. The minute one tries to do the same thing against a corporation, though, they get sued and litigated into oblivion. It doesn't matter whether they are right or wrong, since they normally don't have the resources (time, money, legal representation, etc.) to defend themselves anyway.

      When it comes to spending power, it is true that ordinary consumers have a lot of power as a collective. However, they do not always act as a collective. Look how many people still buy Windows and use IE, despite MS's contempt for its user base. Red Hat is a different story. Red Hat users are much more savvy about technology and GNU/Linux, and they have alternatives that are nearly identical (other distros). The situation isn't as clear in the Windows world, and most people are so technologically illiterate (this is not an insult; it just means they aren't geeks) that their views are easily manipulated by a large, integrated corporation like MS.

      --
      OLPC Australia
  4. He who writes the history books... by BrookHarty · · Score: 5, Funny

    While based off Linux and BSD, code wasnt stolen, it was Liberated.
    - China's National University of Defence Technology.

    1. Re:He who writes the history books... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "While based off Linux and BSD, code wasnt stolen, it was given freedom."
      - US Govt press release on SELinux

  5. While it's possible this is totally new by mc6809e · · Score: 2, Insightful


    It's difficult to believe this was done without GPL'd code.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but consider how long it took to bring Linux to it's current state. Has China really been working 10+ years on this?

    It seems to me this is probably just another CherryOS.

    Does anyone have access to source we can look at?

    1. Re:While it's possible this is totally new by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      They're likely using a helluva lot of BSD code.

      --
      OLPC Australia
    2. Re:While it's possible this is totally new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      They're likely using a helluva lot of BSD code.

      Instead of guessing and making silly comments about greping the source, why don't you follow the Kylin link? There's plenty of GPL code listed in the specs. You've got 9 comments on the thread so far and you haven't even RTFA.

  6. Could there be a link... by Evan+Meakyl · · Score: 1

    ... with XGI releasing open source drivers for X11?

    The timing looks very good for China and its neighbours to drive the IT.

  7. Could there be another contender? by Fulkkari · · Score: 1

    My guess is: yes. China has some huge potential in the IT industry. When considering how many people there are in China, this operating system may one day become the most popular OS. My first impression: impressive effort.

    --
    I demand the Cone of Silence!
    1. Re:Could there be another contender? by fade-in · · Score: 1
      I read the article at http://it.sohu.com/20040913/n222021830.shtml about kylin; My simplified chinese is a bit rusty, but what I got out of it was "64-bit support", "a team of 863 IT experts" and "independant of Linux"

      Anyway, from the sound of the article, there is a kernel, maybe some simple utilities to go along with it, and they are very proud of the fact that they did it all by themselves.

      The article mentions that they want to develop a computing platform that is independantly developed in-country, to allow them more control over how software is deployed in schools, the market, and in the military.

      Is there anyone out there that reads simplified well that can verify this?

      In case you are wondering, Kylin is poorly anglicized for the pinyin "Qilin", pronounced "chee-lean". It is the name of a mythological creature, similar to a unicorn.

      --
      This sig is inappropriate in a post-9/11 world.
  8. Not credible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was going to post a comment about how amateur and untrustworthy the project looks, but somebody beat me to it:

    If this is real at all, it clearly borrows heavily from some well known BSD licensed unixlike codebase (almost certainly Darwin, given their claims of Mach kernel services). Nobody, not even the Chinese government, is going to write an OS this feature-complete from scratch and spring it on us out of the blue. Even so, this would be a big step forward for Darwin: some of the features claimed (SSI clustering, NUMA support, SELinux-like MACs) have only been available in Linux and commercial Unices until now. So let me just say, if this is real, it's great.

    Unfortunately, this seems unlikely to me. The website for this project is so unprofessional that I doubt it was produced by a team capable of creating this software. The following are strikes against them:

    -The website is poorly translated, ridiculously unprofessional, makes very vague and grandiose claims, and shows only tiny screenshots that could well be KDE on Linux.

    -They claim GRUB was "ported" to Kylin, yet their OS is quite obviously familiar enough that no port would be necessary: they're using Mach, and they certainly did not invent a new filesystem.

    -They claim IA64 but not PPC support, Darwin is all about PPC but does not support IA64.

    -They claim not only an astounding level of feature parity with Linux, but also extraordinary compatibility - they even claim to be LSB compliant!!

    Are we to believe that the Chinese government poured enough money into this project for enough time for them to achieve such an amazing result, then had someone who couldn't do webdesign OR speak english spend 10 minutes on a website that is essentially one page of vague claims that reveal technical ignorance. A release announcment without even a download link? No way - it would be humiliating, and doesn't reflect the level of dedication that would be required to create such software.

    This is most likely vaporware, and I'd even doubt it has anything to do with the government. If we do eventually see a download, I'd bet that it's an illegal and poorly put together Linux distribution with an OpenSSI kernel that hasn't got a trace of Mach or BSD anywhere.

    synthespian, David Adams and Eugenia are all gullible, more so, it seems, than any Slashdot editors (this story remains conspicuously absent there).

    1. Re:Not credible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Possibly borrows from BSD--so what if it does? That's entirely legal and ethical.

      "The website is poorly translated, ridiculously unprofessional, makes very vague and grandiose claims"... hmm. Chinese gov't, Chinese gov't, and... oh yeah, Chinese gov't.

      "They claim not only an astounding level of feature parity with Linux, but also extraordinary compatibility" -- much like FreeBSD, which also runs Linux binaries. No problem there...

      I'd have to say that the lack of source code OR a download link is what makes me the most skeptical. However, what this looks like is one guy or perhaps a small team, funded by a gov't grant, who put up a website. There's no reason why this has to be a huge deal. Also, note, it said they started in October 2002--more than enough time to hack Darwin and/or FreeBSD into shape, complete with Chinese internationalization, and whatever else.

      So I don't see who's gullible here--this is entirely possible. We'll likely find out more later.

    2. Re:Not credible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I don't see who's gullible here--this is entirely possible.

      Whether it's possible or not is irrelevent. Even whether it's plausible or not is irrelevent.

      What matters is the headline reads "China Announces Unix-compatible Server OS". There is no announcement from China saying any such thing. There's just a shoddy website with lots of missing pages and suspect claims. That's why anybody posting the story is gullible.

      What's next? Can I put something up on Geocities saying that it's a Linux distribution from Microsoft, and submit a link saying "Microsoft announces their own Linux distribution"?

    3. Re:Not credible by squiggleslash · · Score: 1
      it clearly borrows heavily from some well known BSD licensed unixlike codebase (almost certainly Darwin, given their claims of Mach kernel services).
      Erm, Darwin isn't BSD licensed. It's licensed under the APSL, which is essentially a "You can copy it as long as you can't make it proprietary but you allow us to if we want because we're Apple and we can do whatever we want, har har har!" license.

      There was something called XMach at one point that's virtually disappeared, this too was a BSD kernel for Mach.

      It's worth noting that Mach based Linux also exists, in the form of MkLinux.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Not credible by Jerf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Boy, China is really starting to remind me of the old Soviet Union; a Communist country panicking the free world by looking like it is about to take over a technological lead... but lacking the necessary culture to do that. Substituting for the necessary culture and true innovation and progress, they pour all of their resources into looking like they are progressing, doing well in the Olympics, some token tech program (space-based in the USSR case, possibly China's too), a city or two full of tech and photo ops, and some good people, but no real infrastructure or progress. The USSR did stuff like this too, only they didn't have something as easy to snarf as an open-source software base.

      The USSR panicked a lot of people, and I am strongly suspecting China is going to do the same thing over the next couple of decades. Once the USSR fell, though, lo and behold they were borderline a third-world country overall.

      If history has taught us anything, it is that only an open culture can truly make radical progress, but any culture can put on a good show to a credulous audience (which China will have in spades, the same audience that really wanted the USSR to win). When China starts truly democratizing and breeding people who are not just free in body, but free in spirit, then I will really start to "worry". (Not really; successful democratic countries don't really worry me.) In the meantime, appearence is easy, substance is hard. Try to avoid the mistake of being taken in by appearence.

      (Anyone about to whack the "reply" button to set me straight, I would ask that any arguments you make that China truly is about to become some sort of uber-powerhouse not apply equally to the USSR in 1985, and the US perception of the USSR in 1985. I'm sure there are good reasons on both sides; my point here is not that it is impossible, but that arguments that sound like they are coming straight out of 1985 w.r.t. the USSR aren't going to convince me. We've seen what kind of innovation powerhouse a major Communist country is, and token economic freedoms here or there really don't mean much; the shockwave only occurs when you are really, truly free, like the computer industry of twenty years ago. (On that note, I'd also point out I'm not trying to say everything in the US is hunky-dory, since some weak thinkers always see everything in terms of competition, and that if someone says X is bad, they simply must mean that the thing opposing X is good. I'm only talking about China's putative progress.))

      (Even if this isn't from the government of China, I think it still says something about the culture.)

    5. Re:Not credible by Uber+Banker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A key difference to the USSR in 1985 and China today is that you can get a visa a jump on a plane to CHina tomorrow: Beijing, Shanghai, some remote province, no real problem. And if you like what you see you are welcome to start a factory or whatever there. Capitalist related matters are pretty out in the open.

      I wouldn't expect amazing technological progress from what remains a 3rd world country (apart from the odd pocket here and there), but that doesn't mean a lack of economic growth. Its a country playing catch-up. Like Japan in the 1950s or the US in the 1900s.

    6. Re:Not credible by Jerf · · Score: 1

      Good point. That's actually closer to my real feelings, but I see a lot of people missing two things: "Catch-up" doesn't mean "surpass tommorow", and they are "catching up" to a moving target.

      I still see a lot of that old-school communist "style over substance" at work; they moving that into the military domain is quite disturbing... (in an abstract sort of way; they can annoy their neighbors but at the moment they are certainly in no danger of taking over the world or anything.) but now I'm getting pretty OT.

  9. I don't trust Microsoft, but... by adb · · Score: 1

    ...they haven't yet executed anybody.

    1. Re:I don't trust Microsoft, but... by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      They execute lots of bugs, viruses and worms ;-)

      --
      OLPC Australia
    2. Re:I don't trust Microsoft, but... by Squiddl3 · · Score: 1

      ...but they don't have birth control for these.

    3. Re:I don't trust Microsoft, but... by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 1

      They like to say they do. It's called DRM (Palladium, Trusted Computing, or whatever you want to call it). It's just an excuse to restrict what you can do on your computer so they can milk you for all you're worth.

      --
      OLPC Australia
    4. Re:I don't trust Microsoft, but... by Squiddl3 · · Score: 1

      i would say DRM is more like kindergarten with a lot of electrical fences and ugly supervisors. ah yes, and the only place where comemrcials^Wtoys are allowed

  10. Could there be another contender? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    "THERE IS ANOTHER"
    - Colossus

  11. What happens by lbmouse · · Score: 2, Funny

    FTA: "Few human interfere during the installation process is required."

    What happens to you if you do interfere?

  12. Twenty years ago... by dimss · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...there were "soviet" OSes for IBM 360 and 370 clones. Of course, they were just repackaged VM and VMS.

  13. The contrast is the point. by adb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, the NSA's modifications to Linux are open and subject to peer review, and the US government is at least somewhat bound by the Constitution and doesn't usually round people up and execute them because of their politiccs, so it is probably reasonable to overcome one's paranoia and trust them despite the fact that they are a secretive government agency whose primary purpose is spying on electronic communications. The paranoia is there nonetheless.

    Meanwhile, in the case of a closed-source product out of China, the mitigating factors I just mentioned are not there at all.

  14. Kylin by blincoln · · Score: 1

    Let me guess. Every time you start it up, it plays a scratchy mp3 of your girlfriend saying "I believe in you!"?

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
  15. I'll tell you what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't you do some reasearch and then get back to me about it...

  16. Just a joke by fulldecent · · Score: 1

    Sorry guys, I created this website a long time ago for April fools day and have since forgotten to take it down.

    I didn't know submitting stories to slashdot took so long...

    --

    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch