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European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation

headisdead writes "A week after Google substantially improved their UK site, Deutsche-Welle carry the story that the a whole host of large European libraries (with the British Library's tacit support) have joined an EU-based digitisation project as a counter to Google's own library scheme. The project is the brainchild of BNF director Jean-Noel Jeanneney, a sort of mild-mannered Jose Bove for the librarians out there. Divisive pride, or healthy competition?"

8 of 294 comments (clear)

  1. This could be bigger than Google's effort... by rsidd · · Score: 3, Interesting
    since these are all national libraries. The US equivalent, the Library of Congress, isn't part of Google's effort. Moreover, European copyrights expire sooner than American copyrights, at the moment. So a lot of valuable 20th-century material could become available.

    Still, I'm wondering, wouldn't it have been easier to join Google rather than fight them? Or did they think of that, and did Google not want to play along?

    1. Re:This could be bigger than Google's effort... by lfourrier · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Moreover, European copyrights expire sooner than American copyrights, at the moment. So a lot of valuable 20th-century material could become available.
      Where did you get this crazy notion ?
      In France, the rights go for 75 years after death of the author (previously 50, previously 25), plus war periods, plus 25 years if the author died for France.
      So, as a sample, The little Prince, by St Exupery (who died in 1943, as a pilot) should have been protected at the time until 1993 (25 + died for France). But then, we had 2 extentions (50 then 75 years). Then there was Indochine war (the mess that became Vietnam war). Then there was Algery. As a side note, Algery is legally a war only since a few years (at most 5), but then, by virtue of a law intented to help ex-fighter in what was before a police operation, all copyrights (even if copyright does not exist as such in french law) where extended for 8 years. And I don't speak about England, where recently, a law declared that the copyright to Peter Pan (which was donated to an hospital) is to be perpetual.
      So European copyrights are not so short, and the situation is much more complicated than that.

  2. may make sense, depending by cahiha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Google scans those books for business purposes, libraries scan them for library purposes. There are differences between the two.

    Now, it is possible (I don't know) that when Google works with libraries, the libraries get copies of the images as if they had scanned the books themselves. In that case, when Google offers to work with a library, it makes sense to accept the offer.

    But if Google doesn't actually offer to work with a particular library, or if they aren't interested in the same books as the library, or if there are restrictions on the use of the scanned images that are stricter than if the library scanned the documents themselves, then it makes sense for that library to scan the books themselves.

  3. It's about funding by DingerX · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Bodleian library (working with Google) had a pilot digitization project of the manuscript library for something like 10 years; then Google comes along and signs them up.

    There's a group through the Czech national library that's been putting stuff up, and is exploring offerring it on a subscription basis (merely 3000 Euro/year, and institutions only need apply).

    For me, the best online digitization of a library currently available is already the BNF, and that project has poor quality control (unreadable scans), shaky connection qualities and bad links galore (an essential reference dictionary for my field is missing the volumes containing the letters A-C, and S-Z).

    Without doubt, the EU consortium is using anti-americanism and anti-corporatism to justify the tons of government payouts needed to fund this; without doubt the documents won't be as easy to access as Google's project. But hell, if it puts more books online, I'm all for it. And unlike Google, many of these libraries have been around for centuries; one would hope that in a few centuries, they'll still be here. Google may be doing great, but will it be here in ten years?

  4. You can't trust a US company on that by registro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Libraries in the US are getting closer to censorship than ever. Take for example this new Alabama Bill targeting Gay Authors from an elected Republican representative in the state legislature, Gerald "book-burying " Allen. Consider other minor incidents like the New Mexico Book burning party . Can you spot a trend?

    Google already succumbed to China censorship pressures. Would they resist censorship pressures from the Christian right, inside the US? Yea, right, just like Microsoft did .

    Don't fool yourself, folks. US companies are no longer a reliable for such a task. If Google is allow t create another de facto monopoly in Library Search, we risk gay books, Evolution volumes or the freaking Harry Potter adventures disappearing anytime now.
    Let me ask you, who's going to preserve Western Culture heritage if the US completes it's path towards fascism bushflash.com/14.html? India!? The Chinese!!? Well, apparently it's going to be the French. Good for them.

  5. Re:this only hurts their descendents by Mant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The only European countries that speaks English are Britain and Ireland. France isn't in a "sea of English", it's part of Europe, it's in a sea of French, German, Spanish, Italian and a whole load more.

    According to french.about.com 113 million people speak it fluently on a regular basis. It is the second most widely taught second language after English.

    It is the official language of France; Bénin; Burkina Faso; Central African Republic; Congo (Democratic Republic of); Congo (Republic of); Côte d'Ivoire; Gabon; Guinea; Luxembourg; Mali; Monaco; Niger; Sénégal; Togo; the Canadian province of Québec; and the Swiss districts of Vaud, Neuchâtel, Genève; Jura; French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Réunion; French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna, French southern and Antarctic lands.

    It's the co-official language of Belgium, Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Chad, Comoros Islands, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Haiti (the two official languages are French and French Creole), Madagascar, Rwanda, Seychelles, Switzerland, and Vanuatu.

    I'm not French, but I certainly respect a country for trying to keep their own cultural identity. Sometimes that get a bit carried away with the language thing, but it doesn't seem to be hurting them. Remember, English is taught in their schools from a young age, and lots of French people speak really good English.

  6. Oh great... by Noryungi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just as a reminder, the French project of an almost purely digital library (Bibliotheque de France) has been a huge money burner. Their IT system is a complete mess, a mess in which they have already sunk millions of Euros.

    Who was the President of that fiasco? Jeanneney, the same guy who is now trying to 'counter Google' or something. I suspect this so-called 'European' project is a scam to obtain more money for his own aggrandizement.

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  7. Re:"Accessible" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Try just about any book search on Google.

    The thing is Google will not digitize all the books in the world, but only those found in a few US libraries. What european librarians fear is that this will result is a biased view of the world, where anglo-saxon culture is the only one represented, and everything else disappears into oblivion. As more and more people rely almost exclusively on Google to find information, if it's not indexed by Google, it's like it does not exist.

    Read again what Jeanneney says in the article on Deutsche Welle: "It's normal that America is in the first rank to develop that wonderful gift to humanity. I'm not criticizing it, I just tell Europeans that America will play its game, and we must play ours."