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Dutch Pass iPod Tax
An anonymous reader writes "The Register is reporting that in a few short months a proposal to tax all MP3 players in the Netherlands will become law. The levy taxes 3.28 euros ($4.30 US) for every gigabyte of capacity. This means a 60GB iPod Photo will be hit for an additional 196 euros ($258), all of it going to the record industry's copyright collection agencies. And they call file sharers thieves?"
I hate to pay a "steal" tax. But if I'd pay 258$ steal tax, I'd "steal"....
The answer IS 42.
I'd just buy a MP3 player that has low onboard memory, but that takes removable memory. Voila! Less than 5 bucks o' tax, infinite memory.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
Apple stores in Germany will probably welcome this law ;-)
I thought it was a joke. Adding $258 to the cost of a 60gb Ipod? Thats not a tax, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard!
Like the article says, what happens when we get 100gb, or 200gb ipods (it'll happen eventually), then we're talking about not just doubling the cost of an Ipod but tripling it.
Don't they realise this amazingly exorbitant taxation will only lead to illegal importing? And I thought the U.S. Government had lost its way....
There's a similar levy on blank media, in my native Denmark.
But, I honestly don't see how they can justify having a levy on media that can be used for assumed copyright infringement, and at the same time seek redress for copyright infringement - isn't the levy supposed to be a sort of "shared" payment for the copyright infringement that occurs?
I mean, they can't have both. Either they have un-levied media, and sue copyright infringers. Or the other way around. Having both is getting paid twice for the same supposed loss.
And that looks like fraud to me.
- Peter Ravn Rasmussen
1) Charge a ridiculous tax on iPods
2) Profit!
Wait a second, something's missing here.
Another good reason to use OGG... *ducks*
not 'pass' tax. Hasn't been passed yet.
This is really great news!
It's always great to see how the recording industry penalizes a system that allows people to legally listen to music.
I'm sure that the record industry's copyright collection agencies will hand the money gathered through this tax to needy musicians.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for musicians being able to make a living, but penalizing a system that encourages people to buy music online is just plain stupid.
The US doesn't have a CD-R/MP3 player tax like other countries. This proposal is just absurd.
mmmmmmmm.....iPot.....
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
From the article...
The idea of all levy based legislation is that some form of copyright collections agency collects tax by imposing a surcharge at the point of sale for any storage devices that could possibly be used to store pirated works.
Already in Germany there is a levy on PC hard drives, that will soon become larger than the entire PC industry revenue if it is left in place. Within two years, as disk drive sizes move to terabyte class on notebooks, and petabyte levels on home DVRs, the tax will come to far outweigh not just the cost of the drive, but the cost of the device. Under this Netherlands law, if it were extended to the PC, the cost of 1,000 GB would be 3,280 ($4,300) and yet drives of this size will be delivered by 2007.
However, similar regulations already exist for blank CD-ROMs, tapes, and photocopiers, because it is assumed that these are (partly) used for the copying of copyrighted material.
Such copying is legally allowed, the levy exists as a compensation for the copyright holders.
I think it is possible that a levy on MP3 players will come into existence but at much lower sums than now proposed.
buy that Apple Store franchise in Belgium NOW!
Not Free SF Reader
That's exactly what will happen. 258$ will actually make it worth their while to drive to Germany to buy their mp3-players. And since borders are open in Europe, there is nothing the Dutch government can do about that.
If they expect something like this to work, it needs to be worked out on a European scale, not just a national one...
The only solutions are to reduce the power of the government, and/or to move these powers to more regional authorities (thus increasing the cost require to influence the entire nation).
New York: Shady character standing in front of the Apple Store selling weed
Amsterdam: Shady character standing in front of the coffee shop selling imported iPods
Hear recorded Slashdot headlines on your phone! New service beta testing. Just call (248) 434-5508
You are right, the Dutch article/news mentioned iPod in particular because it is the predominant player in the market.
But the news mentioned further that it goes for all players, and then it might also get applied to:
USB keys, hard disk drives, cellular phones.
But it is plain idiocy. I *CAN* use an USB key for storing illegal content, yes. But what about my recovery tools for systems I do administering for?
I swear, where the photo industry has seen new opportunities now that digital photography is a hard reality the music industry is still a bunch of clueless morons living in the early 1920's.
Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
Well, this is old news in Holland (see article on tweakers.net, English version available too).
For now it is a prooposal only, but the current Dutch government is pretty good in 'silently' upgrading such things to law.....
In fact, the proposal is even worse than mentioned in the article.
The tax is not only intended for iPods/MP3 players, but for ANY device capable of storing copyrighted content for later playback.
That includes, computers, HD and DVD video recorders, even spare HD's, SD and Comapct Flash memory, etc.
All major computer manufacturers have already written letters to the Dutch prime-minister stating, that if this insanity becomes law, they will be forced to withdraw from the Dutch market.
Several members of the Dutch parliament (at least from the opposition parties) have spoken out their concern's about this too.
So far the government has made no attempt to actually get this "law" throught the legislation process.
I just hope they never will get around to it.
Current Dutch political climate is such that no Parliament member will vote against party policy. The parties of the ruling coalition will never vote against the government so any proposal is bound to be accepted.
Is it just me or does it seem as if this is gonna give the dutch citizens the feeling that they're entitled to pirate music. I know if I lived there this would upset me so much that I'd never have the urge to buy another piece of music in my life. How does the RIAA, et al. get this sense of granduer that they're "owed" all this money. They're charging innocent customers for the sins of others and I know my views are not original towards them (especially here on /.) but they have gotten ridiculously out of hand.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
1) Charge a ridiculous tax on iPods
2) Profit!
Wait a second, something's missing here.
Yeah, you're missing step 3:
3) ???
which represents the confusion and consternation of the general populace
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
Please keep in mind that:
1. This is just a proposal, and already heavily critized.
2. It is legal in the Netherlands to make private copies of any audio/video, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT OWN AN ORIGINAL! This means effectively that there's no such thing as illegal downloading of songs/movies in the Netherlands; it's legal. The levy system is the opposed measure set up to make this legal.
As said: DOWNLOADING of audio/video is legal here. Uploading however is not. Placing stuff on a public webserver would fall under the uploading category.
We already have to pay a levy on blank CDs in most European countries today, same as it was with blank magnetic media before.
And of course, iPod sales in the Netherlands would suffer a huge drop... in such a small country, you can never be far away from the border.
You know what? If I bought an mp3 player in Netherlands and got taxed under the new law, I would feel it's my legal right to copy, distribute and share all my mp3s on p2p networks and also to download as many as I like. Because, after all, I already paid the music industry.
But think about the enormous economical losses of this tax. People will stop buying MP3 players in the Netherlands. Instead they will be buying in Germany or Belgium. Same thing for the DVD tax: I buy all my DVD_Rs from Germany, not in the local shop.
Most resellers are very afraid of this kind of taxes.
The single market in the European Union means that people living in the Netherlands can just buy their iPods, blank CD-Rs etc from a country like the UK, which doesn't impose taxes like this. Which is one reason why I bet the proposal will end up either being dropped, or else watered down sufficiently to create less of an incentive for shopping around.
My worry is that the UK will end up being forced to adopt similar levies in the name of "harmonisation", which would be ruinously expensive for those of us who only buy blank CD-Rs to use for data rather than music.
While the proposal is real, the register's claim it will be Eur 3.28 per gigabyte is not correct. The website of the Stichting Thuiskopie explicitly states (loosely translated): "Reports stating there is any agreement at all about the level of taxation are incorrect".
He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
how do you spell "something from Nederlands"?
:o)
"Dutch".
I'd completely go for the iPod tax.
Now I've paid for music, it's no longer illegal for me to go out and download it.
I know that's not really how it'll work legally, but I've always strongly felt that if any standard tax is passed on devices for listening to music, then anyone in possession of such devices are free to access all the music with out limit. Why else have a tax if not to remove the individual purchase rate.
I'd gladly give up $200 one-time for indefinate no-further-charge unlimited access to all the RIAA (or whatever it is in the Netherlands) music.
All that said, it is a mockery of justice to have ANY corporation able to levy a tax on citizens for any reason. If this was a tax so the government could afford to cover the legal costs that *it* is incurring, then it falls well within what most standard taxes are for. But if it's a tax that presumes purchasers of a consumer device are going to use it for illegal ends, and compensate the, erm, "victims" in advance, then you've just created a "Guilty until proven innocent" model.
Personally I have a 40g iPod which is about 2/3 full. Every single bit of data on it is something which I have a right to place there. I do believe in paying for music (though actually most of what I have on there is audio books -- which I've paid for). This sort of law would charge people like me, who are wholly operating within our rights within the law, for the crimes of others, with the presumption that I'm too weak minded to resist the temptation to break the law.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
Since this is not an EU tax all they have to do to avoid it is go to another country to buy it. The train fare is less than the tax and you get a vacation out of it... Itdiots.
"It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything." -Homer Simpson
On an interesting sidenote, for example Hungary already has this proposed dutch system, and it sucks.
There is a lovely organization called Artisjus, which managed to put a tax on every cd, dvd, memory card (like the ones used it _cameras_). This essentially doubles their price, and they are doing this on the grounds that it's a compensation for the losses in piracy. Now, the further outrageing thing is, that this is only about music. They collect the money and check the current music market from _their_ statistics and distribute _some_ of the money that way.
The bad thing about is that they are assuming that people are breaking the law in advance! The bad thing is that they don't assume people make backups of personal data, burn any other legal things, which _does_ happen. Also, if people burn software or movies to the cd/dvd, shouldn't the movies industry get compensation by the same logic? Or if i burn a linux dvd, shouldn't i GET MY MONEY BACK? It's all or none. Another outrageous event was when they added the memory cards, which are 90% used in cameras. Sure, someone will pirate mp3s in that...
The irony in that, people would assume that they can pirate legally then, since they got the price paid for it already, well, wrong. There is another nice organization in Hungary, called ASVA, which goes after even legal "piracy". In hungary you can download music and videos, as long as you don't upload. Still, this ASVA goes after people, not just those who for example run ftp servers, but the common downloaders aswell. They "teach" and "lecture" the police about the dangers of violating IP, and basically bribe the police. It is a sad and outrageous legal state.
This is honestly a fucked up system, which is there in Hungary, and i don't wish the dutch to have this, further more, when we have an example that some people have done it already, so don't discard that proposal on "it won't pass" or something right away. This thing needs to be fought, and burned to the ground. Also some EU action against that kind of thing happening in Hungary would be good.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Yeah, it's legal, but is ain't a hundred percent legal. I mean you can't log into any computer, open up a p2p app, and start downloadin' away. You're only supposed to download in your home or certain designated places.
Those are p2p bars?
Yeah, it breaks down like this: it's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it and, if you're the proprietor of a p2p bar, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry music, which doesn't really matter 'cause -- get a load of this -- if the cops stop you, it's illegal for this to search you. Searching you is a right that the cops in Amsterdam don't have.
That did it, man -- I'm fuckin' goin', that's all there is to it.
You'll dig it the most. But you know what the funniest thing about Europe is?
What?
It's the little differences...
!hoD