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Broadband War & an Interactive Municipal Map

Ant writes "Broadband Reports mentions a CNET News.com story on the U.S.'s growing debate over municipal broadband. Across the country, acrimonious conflicts have erupted as local governments attempt to create publicly funded broadband services with faster connections and cheaper rates for all citizens, narrowing the so-called digital divide. The Bells and cable companies, for their part, argue that government intervention in their business is not justified and say they are far better equipped to operate complex and far-flung data networks. There is also an interactive municipal broadband legislative map that details the major battlegrounds on the issue. At stake is the fate of high-speed Internet access for millions of Americans, hinging on a fundamental question of civics and economics--whether the government or private industries should take the leading role in building out what's considered this generation's critical infrastructure challenge. Its map shows a breakdown of muni-projects in each state, which have or are developing fiber or Wi-Fi projects, and are facing (existing or pending) legal barriers to doing business."

18 of 231 comments (clear)

  1. Unbelievable... by Sirch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can anyone explain how in the hell the Baby Bells etc. are actually managing to push bills preserving their effective monopolies through state governments?

    (Hint: saying 'bribery' might be true, but it ain't the kind of answer I'm after!)

    1. Re:Unbelievable... by blatantdog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Remember just because the old copper and coaxial aren't sexy doesn't mean they don't have clout. How does a local Bell force this? Well there's that little tax that is tacked on to your phone bills by the States, and guess what Mr. State? The Federal Government keeps sending you messages not to touch VoIP, so what is going to fill those coffers? Who's going to approve the bonds to raise the money for your network? etc.

    2. Re:Unbelievable... by bigman2003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I do not know what type of city you live in...

      But in the city I live in (you can see my link if you care) the 'city officials' are just regular Joes off the street. People you know, live near, and work with.

      They are not some sort of over-arching group bent on X-Files type conspiracies to get into our personal lives.

      Just as I trust the sys admins at work to not give a damn what I am doing (since I am one of the sys admins, I know this to be true) I don't believe the city would give a crap either.

      Maybe it's because my tin-foil-hat blew away, and I never bothered looking for it...but I truly do not think that anyone really cares what sites I visit.

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    3. Re:Unbelievable... by danheskett · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why? Because the former has to obey the first amendment.
      Well, in theory. Like libraries, right? They are government funded, but they filter. Actually, they are required to filter. It's not just an option, it's a requirement.

      And what about contemporary community standards, and all that? If the government owns the network, can individuals post religious material? I mean, the governmetn owns the park, and you can't just go down there and put up big posters of Jesus without a permit, right? And even though we are guaranteed the right to assembly, it's not unconditional. We have to get mass permits so there isn't rioting and so that we have a "safe" place to assemble.

      So, yeah, the first amendment is great. But in reality, it's not the be all end all of protection.

      The difference between the private ISP and the municipal is that on the ISP, it's reactive. Something happens, a warrant is issued, and something else happens. If the government is in the loop from day one, there is absolutely no check. None. It will be pro-active.

      Like I said, I don't believe it should be implemented wider than a municipality.
      That's great, and I agree. However, the people running things won't always be running things. Schools are run locally, right? Unless the State performs a takeover because it's really a bad school. What happens if the State decides your little network is too slow or bad or whatever, and decides to take it over to manage it properly?

      Once you open the door, it really is almost never shut.

      A market economy does not provide universal coverage. The quality of service is a bell-curve, some people get awesome service, some get terrible service, most get mediocre service. That's where we are today. The largest majority of people can get either crappy or mediocre service. A small minority can get great service. A smaller minority can get no service.

      For these people, maybe we need sometype of government sponsored universal access guarantee. Maybe that's a good idea that should be investigated.

      But when the government owns the network, it will be proactive against it's users before long. Muncipalities are seen as responsive, but they aren't always. They can be vindictive. There will be a broadband board. They will call people forward to testify. They will cut people off. They will spy on people. They will release logs to embarrass enemies. They will abuse the power. It will happen. It's a guarantee. There is not a government power that goes unabused.

      So the final question comes down to this: would you rather take your chances with private/commerical carriers, or the government.

      My choice is simple, and clear. I have economic recourse against business. I have legal recourse against business. I have choices. If my town started offering broadband at sub-market prices, well, that'd be the end of my choice.

    4. Re:Unbelievable... by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you can't just go down there and put up big posters of Jesus without a permit, right?

      Well, that's only because you also can't put up big posters of, well, anything. It would violate basic littering and vandalism statutes. Of course individuals can put up religious materials. It would be against the first amendment for them to be refused, especially on the basis that the material in question is religious.

      Now, the government itself will not be able to put up religious materials, but this is merely the same principle that says that a state school that actively promotes religion, via organized school prayer etc, is violating the constitution, but a school that bans private (ie individuals chosing for themselves without encouragement from the school establishment) prayer is violating the constitution too.

      I'm tired of this one coming up. There seems to be a lot of people who quite deliberately "misunderstand" and mis-state the whole seperation of church and state thing in order to feed the persecution complex of modern Christians. Give it a rest, please. If the government with access to state or federal funds bans you using public infrastructure available to everyone from using it to promote your religion, then that government is violating the constitution and needs a kicking. And you can bet the ACLU and half a million church groups will be right over it when it does.

      The difference between the private ISP and the municipal is that on the ISP, it's reactive. Something happens, a warrant is issued, and something else happens. If the government is in the loop from day one, there is absolutely no check. None. It will be pro-active.

      Nonsense. If a private ISP bans you from using your connection to promote or service your religion, there's no come back whatsoever. No warrants, nothing. You can either suck it, or leave it, and too bad if nobody else in the area thinks differently to them.

      If a municipal ISP does the same thing, you'll be able to get a warrant within hours to change the situation.

      However, the people running things won't always be running things. Schools are run locally, right? Unless the State performs a takeover because it's really a bad school. What happens if the State decides your little network is too slow or bad or whatever, and decides to take it over to manage it properly?

      Then I'd disagree with it, same as if the State determined that Earthlink was doing a bad job and tried to take them over. This isn't really a reason to oppose municipal ISPs.

      So the final question comes down to this: would you rather take your chances with private/commerical carriers, or the government.

      My choice is simple, and clear. I have economic recourse against business. I have legal recourse against business. I have choices. If my town started offering broadband at sub-market prices, well, that'd be the end of my choice.

      I'm lucky that today I have options. I have options because BellSouth finally decided it would be in their best interest to introduce DSL to my neighbourhood (we were too far from the exchange, so this involved them building a relay close by), and the FCC has forced BellSouth to let free-as-in-speech ISPs like Earthlink (there's an irony there, I'll get to it in a moment) and others access to their infrastructure. This means I am, today, allowed to operate a server. This situation didn't exist a few months ago, and the further I'd have gotten from Stuart, the less likely a viable broadband via DSL would have appeared.

      My "other choice" would have been Adelphia, a company with draconian (from the point of view of what I want to use the service for) terms and conditions that I found unacceptable when I read them. A month or two ago, this was my only choice. And if the big bad government hadn't intervened, the choice would have been between two providers, Adelphia and BellSouth, both of whom have draconian terms and c

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    5. Re:Unbelievable... by Golias · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What if you live in Bumf*ck Iowa...

      Where's your opportunity to get online now?


      Des Moines.

      If you want the ammenities of a city, move to one.

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      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  2. Timing by republican+gourd · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The real shock in any of this is that the telecom companies haven't done this already. 802.11b (at least) as been everywhere, at the same price that normal NICs used to cost, for at least 3 years or so. The number of laptops being lugged around by people was huge even then.

  3. How the PUDs went wrong in Washington State by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The idea of public broadband has always been an attractive one for slashdotters, the incursion into this arena by Grant County PUD in central Washington State stands as an example of why we don't want bureaucrats meddling in business.

    In this state the PUDs are treated as municipalities under the law and are given a set of rules under which they can operate. Broadband and electrical power are different services so it took an act of the Legislature to allow them to enter the market. The legislature, under some pressure from the big telecoms who were afraid that the PUDs would "cherry pick" the larger communities and leave the rural people to fend for themselves, allowed the PUDs to be "wholesale" only. The first thing Grant County PUD did was ignore that law.

    Grant County PUD had first partnered up with two local ISPs which charged $20 to $25 per month for the broadband servoces back at the inception of the project in 1999. But at the same time the Manager of that PUD was trying to attract an outside competitor, also a utility provider, to enter the market in this county at a subsidized rate of $8 per month.

    The PUD did attract that utility but only by entering into secret (and illegal) agreements to subsidize the program at cost plus 10%. So the new provider would risk nothing and could make 10% on the rate-payer's money even if they gave away their services for free. Then the PUD employees threw as many of the new customers to this new competitor as possible while their managers used their position as investors to pressure prices to a point where the commercial ISPs could no longer compete profitably.

    It was only after the PUD had spent several million dollars propping up this outside provider that the story became known. Meanwhile, the PUD had raised the electrical rates to cover the $100 Million cost of fibering only 1/3 of the County but lied when asked about it. The Commissioners and Managers claimed that the rate increases were due to other factors. However their own emails, obtained under the State's public disclosure act, showed this to be untrue.

    Agricultural interests were incensed because they use a lot of that electrical power. A large farm might have a $500k yearly power bill for their irrigation pumps. While 4% isn't much for my house, it's a chunk of money on a half-million dollars.

    It took almost a year after the discovery of the secret contracts and a State Auditor's report which also found illegal and improper actions, to rid ourselves of the management team that led us into this debacle. The largest ISPs in the area, including the first two to partner up with the PUD, went out of business and were gobbled up by another outside competitor; costing jobs and an economic drain on the communities' resources. The Commissioners who were supposed to keep a rein on the PUD managers are now up for re-election and facing some tough questions.

    The problem with bureaucrats going into business is that, essentially, they don't understand profit and loss. It's all other people's money and if they make a mistake they just raise the rates to cover it. We could have fibered this County up for the money they spent, had they spent that money wisely. Instead they created a NOC they thought they could make profitable (not at $3 million a year to operate they couldn't), they installed fiber to the areas where their managers lived regardless of population density (it turns out the telecoms fears of "cherry picking" were well-founded, but the managers weren't smart enough to do it that way), and they drove jobs and money out of the area.

    Had they simply created the infrastructure for the product instead of getting involved in creating subsidies for favored businesses we would have been ok. But that's the problem. Bureaucrats don't make good business people.

    So if you don't want to see jobs go away, money disappear and your power rates rise, treat the entrance of government into business with caution. These things are run by politicians, not business people. And it's not their money.

  4. Censorship and old technology by michaelmalak · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Letting the government control the Internet is letting it control the press.

    Besides, Wi-Fi is old technology (in terms of providing wireless-anywhere service, as opposed to providing wireless-in-your-own-building service), to be replaced by EVDO.

  5. Re:Needs to move through the courts by HomerJayS · · Score: 2, Interesting
    IANAL, but I can't see how a court could prevent a municipality from providing WIFI or WISP broadband service (providing that the municipality foot the bill for the wireless intrastructure).

    If the municipality wanted to provide cable/DSL broadband, there is an issue of the municipality commandeering the local cable provider's wires for public purposes. I can't see a municipality laying down hundreds/thousands of miles of its own wires. A court would need to decide if emminent domain would apply.

  6. If the Bell's don't want to see municipal broadban by AviLazar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    then they should lower their rates. When the price of comcast highspeed is roughly $50/month - that is HIGH cost. Make it 25/month and the gov't will let it go - especially since that is what most municipalities are thinking of charging around. Now if the gov't can do it at 25 - and we know how bad gov't is at managing money - then the broadbad providers should have little to no problems doing this.

    But they are greedy and they will lobby.

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  7. Re:What the Bells et al don't tell you is... by cwgmpls · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Now I don't have a choice but to use the contracted collector But municiple networks don't prohibit you from using other ISPs if you want to. The original post is right. Municiple networks aren't anti-competative. Municiples networks still have to compete for customers and recover their costs just like any other business. In fact, most proposed municiple networks are run by private companies, not by government agencies. The big telecos are free to bid on these municiple contracts just like any other business can. The only thing municiple networks do differently is pool customers into a large group that allows them to negotiate with a provider for better prices. Telecom companies want to be like the pharmaceutical companies and prohibit the pooling of buyers to negotiate for better prices for the consumer. Giant telecom companies are not working on behalf of customers, they are working on behalf of telecom shareholders and executives. The only way to build a true consumer-driven marketplace is for consumers pool their telecom buying at the local level. That is what municiple networks do.

  8. Re:Needs to move through the courts by MojoRilla · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If I want "free" wireless broadband, I can get it from my local coffee shop. I see no reason whatsoever why the old lady next door to me who doesn't even own a computer should be forced to pay for me to have free wireless in my house.

    Except when her house catches on fire, and she wants the firemen to be able to communicate. Or she wants her water meter read without having to have someone visit every house in the county. Or she wants automated signs on the highway telling her where the next accident is.

    Municipal wireless will enable all these things, even for people that don't have computers. This basic infrastructure will ultimately save the city money and make a host of services possible.

    And it has the side benefit of giving people with computers access.

  9. Competition is the answer by pyite69 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I believe in private sector competition. However, the government should be allowed to compete (fairly) when the private sector are slackers.

    Why should citizens have to suffer because the phone companies are slackers with an un-serviceable amount of debt?

    Some of the cities here in Utah have 100 megabit service to their residents for dirt cheap...

  10. seems like a "fucking duh" to me. by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The government funds libraries, the government should fund high-speed internet. Make people get an internet card the way they get a library card, pay for high usage the way they pay for late fees, seems fairly straight-forward to me. Libraries are closing due to lack of interest- shut down five real libraries to open one lower-cost digital library.

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  11. The telcos and cable companies ... by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... are more interested in dragging their feet and ensuring that they have monopoly control over any markets they invest in, so that they can charge a far higher price for less service than competition would normally lead to, than in actually innovating and taking any lead. They are also only interested in 'dense' markets where there are lots of customers.

    Since they seem to be playing the 'the government shouldnt compete with us' card, I suggest that communities instead form co-ops (which would be greenlighted thru rights-of-way and other resources) that would own and operate the services. Basically the same thing, but it takes away the BS objection that the incumbents have.

  12. Re:Analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You'll note that there is no thriving book rental business (a better analog to a library than a bookstore). If I were to pitch to investors that I wanted to start a NetFlix-like book rental system, I'd get laughed out of my leather chair. Why would anybody want to pay me for books when the taxpayers already pay for the library to have such a good selection?

    Libraries now lend movies, and Blockbuster still thrives. Only (at least in my town) because the library is forbidden from purchasing movies to lend - all the movies it has in stock are donated. If they had a mandate to start stocking and lending for free all of the movies that their users wanted to see, you can bet that Blockbuster would soon be out of business. Faster.

  13. i thought ... by Bontux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "At stake is the fate of high-speed Internet access for millions of Americans, hinging on a fundamental question of civics and economics--whether the government or private industries should take the leading role in building out what's considered this generation's critical infrastructure challenge."

    I thought this generation's critical infrastructure challange was repairing our power grid. remember... that blackout in the summer of 2003.

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