Hong Kong Boy Scouts to Protect IP

phresno writes "Declan McCullagh at C|net's News.com has a short article on the development that the Hong Kong Boy Scouts Association has teamed up with the MPA to create an intellectual property merit badge. Mike Ellis of the MPA hopes this program will 'provide thousands of young people -- future leaders -- with a better understanding of the value of intellectual property.' Those with tinfoil hats will surely be thinking of the youth in Orwell's 1984."

Comments

Hong Kong Piracy

[Excen]

Is it just me, or is Hong Kong the perfect place for the MPAA to start brainwashing the youngest members of our society?

Re:Hong Kong Piracy

[Hoi Polloi]

Well, Hong Kong is the perfect place to earn your "The Ruling Party is Not to be Questioned" merit badge.

They could issue that one in this country pretty soon.

Re:Hong Kong Piracy

[over_exposed]

Was there a spelling merit badge?

Suggest Your Own Merit Badges Here!!!

[rewinn]

How about a GPL Merit Badge?

Re:Suggest Your Own Merit Badges Here!!!

[Alpha_Traveller]

Uh...Why is this funny?
(Yes, I get the joke and yes, funny.)

Frankly, it's a great suggestion. I'd love to have America's youth thinking good things like the Mantra of GPL, instead of bad things like "...let's keep all the good things to ourselves and make some moolah or shut out the little guy"...

Re:Suggest Your Own Merit Badges Here!!!

[PaxTech]

How about a GPL Merit Badge?

You have to make the badge yourself, but you do get the use of patterns and yarn donated by the community.

Of course, then there will inevitably be articles written criticizing you for putting people out of work in the seamstress industry..

Re:Suggest Your Own Merit Badges Here!!!

[Rude Turnip]

I'd like to propose the "Cleaning Out Spyware and Installing Firefox" badge :)

This is sick

[Saven Marek]

Let me be one of the first to say this is absolutely sickening. Boy scouts are about honor and doing what is right and about self reliance and about all other good things like that. Not about serving commercial interests.

What next they have a McDonalds Merit Badge given to the kids who can eat a quarter pounder a day all week for supporting a good old american company? Well it means the same thing.

Re:This is sick

[Anonymous Coward]

What next they have a McDonalds Merit Badge given to the kids who can eat a quarter pounder a day all week for supporting a good old american company?

I hope so. I could sure use the additional "quadruple-bypass-survivor" merit badge.

Re:This is sick

[brontus3927]

With the exception of maybe 5% (2% who earn the rank of Eagle, and maybe 3% who care but aren't able to make it that far) of Boy Scouts, scouting is about being in a social club. There are over 100 merit badges, maybe 2 dozen relate to the core of scouting. The rest are things that started out as an opportunity to educate young people on technologies (like Computers and atomic energy), become horribly out of date because there isn't enough interest in updating them, and scouts (if they can find a leader certified to sign off on that badge) getting them to have a longer list of badges. When I was a scout in the 90's, my troop (which was an Eagle generating powerhouse, averaging 2/year in a troop with a membership ~30) more than half of the merit badges didn't have anyone qualified to teach them. I went to a jamboree to get my Computers merit badge, and the book had images of an Apple IIG!

Below are the requirements for the Computers Merit Badge which was "updated" a few years ago:

1. Give a short history of computers. Describe the major parts of a computer system. Give four different uses of computers.
2. Do the following:
   1. Tell what a program is and how it is developed.
   2. Give three examples of programming languages and what types of programming they are used for.
   3. Describe a source program and an object program.
3. Show how the following may be stored in computer memory: text, numbers, pictures, and sound.
4. Do THREE of the following:
   1. Use a database manager to create a troop roster, providing name, rank, patrol, and telephone number of each Scout. Sort the register by rank, by patrol, and alphabetically by name.
   2. Use a spreadsheet program to develop a weekend campout food budget for your patrol.
   3. Use a word processor to write a letter to parents of your troop's Scouts, inviting them to a court of honor. Use the mail merge feature to make a personalized copy of the letter for each family.
   4. Use a computer graphics program to design and draw a campsite plan for your troop.
5. Do TWO of the following:
   1. Visit a business or industry that uses computers. Study what the computer accomplishes and be prepared to discuss what you observed.
   2. Use a computer attached to a local area network or equipped with a modem to connect to a computer network or bulletin-board service such as Prodigy, CompuServe, or America Online. Send a message to someone on the network or download a program or file from the network.
   3. Use a general-purpose programming language to write a program application of your choice, subject to approval by your counselor.
6. Be prepared to discuss several terms used in each of the following categories:
   1. Input/output devices
   2. Storage media
   3. Memory
   4. Processors and coprocessors
   5. Modems
   6. Networks
   7. Electronic mail
   8. Robotics
7. Be prepared to discuss various jobs in the computer field.
8. Is it permissible to accept a free copy of a computer game or program from a friend? Why or why not?
9. Describe several ways in which you and your family could use a personal computer other than for games and recreation.

Re:This is sick

[sconeu]

download a program or file from the network

So, to get the Computers Merit Badge, you have to give up all hope of getting the IP Merit Badge?

Re:This is sick

[goldspider]

May I be the first to say "GET BENT!" With that off my chest, might I refer you to our Bill of Rights.

Specifically: "...or the right of the people peaceably to assemble"

The Boy Scouts, or any private group for that matter, may exclude whomever they so choose, for any reason. This particular group does not believe that homosexuality or atheism are acceptable lifestyles.

Who are YOU to impose your beliefs upon them? Isn't that the very thing you people are fond of accusing 'conservative' groups of doing?

It is petty of you to deride an organization that first and foremost encourages community volunteerism and service. It is best that people like you don't associate with the Boy Scouts; your involvement would taint their good work.

Re:This is sick

[NixLuver]

Of course, that's only if you buy the propaganda of the corporate weasles that have turned "copyright infringement" into "theft"; not equivalent concepts at all. The reason it was called 'copyright' is because - get this weird concept - it granted you sole right to profit from copying of the work for a limited period of time, which is very clearly different from 'ownership'. Remedies were all civil until our 'copyright' and 'trademark' process got turned into "Intellectual Property" by the lobbyists of the "IP companies" - those who would found an empire on a single concept rather than develop new ones often enough to stay afloat.

Re:This is sick

[The Good Reverend]

It's my right when they use government subsidies, meet at public schools, and use public funds. They can do anything they like as soon as they stop all those things.

Re:This is sick

[replicant108]

Getting Boy Scouts (of whatever nation) to honor someone else's property etc etc

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property."

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/ a1_8_8s12.html

Re:This is sick

[bleckywelcky]

Actually, they don't use public resources as much as you may think.

I was in a scout troop when I was young and had friends in other scout troops. All of our troops used private churches to meet in.

I recall one scout troop that did use a local elementary school gym for their meetings. However, it is still within their right to exclude gays and atheists from joining their club. If a gay or atheist wanted to walk into the gym, the troop wouldn't force them out (unless of course they were being ridiculous, yelling and screaming or something). If a gay or atheist group wanted to use the gym, they could sign up just like everyone else. Yet, they can exclude straight and religious people from their groups.

Public resources don't mean that you have to be completely PC when you use those resources. They are just available to the public. If an equestrian club wants to use a public park, but won't allow anyone to join that doesn't have a horse, should they be banned from using that public resource?

And governmnet subsidies and public funds don't really make their way into the scouts anyhow. Pretty much all of the organization is run by volunteers, scouts pay dues to run their troops. Everyone pays for their own supplies, scout uniforms, scout books, etc. Camping supplies are paid for through fundraisers by the troops. They may take grants for specific projects though, ie: if a grant existed to clean up some wetlands, they might take on that project. But the goal of the grant is to clean up the wetlands, it doesn't care who does it. So the scouts will achieve that goal.

If you have any facts to back up your claims, I'd like to see them.

Re:This is sick

[An Onerous Coward]

You seem to be going out of your way to be inflammatory. Not everyone who complains about draconian IP laws are simply out to score free stuff, and--despite your comments--you know it.

The laws are not always clear cut, and where they are clear cut, they do not always represent the best interests of fairness, justice, or society as a whole.

Do you think it's right that a documentary maker loses the right to use a shot because it happened to catch a few seconds of a TV playing "The Simpsons?" Do you really think our society is served by keeping "The Grapes of Wrath" under copyright until 2038? What about the literally millions of copyrighted works that no longer have value to the copyright holder, or for whom the copyright holder can't even be found? Should we make sure those works can't be copied either, until those copies which do remain have crumbled into dust? Should researchers face criminal prosecution merely for discussing the copyright protection measures of a new gadget?

If these are the sort of fair laws that you want Boy Scouts to be taught to respect and obey, then your endeavor is doomed. Even a twelve year old can see that "IP law" is just a big, corporate-sponsored power grab, and any attempts to teach them to respect those laws will only result in their losing respect for all laws.

BSA

[ReverendLoki]

You know, it used to annoy me that these two shared the same initials. Turns out it was just being a bit prophetic...

Or..

[Sanity]

Those with tinfoil hats will surely be thinking of the youth in Orwell's 1984

Or in Hitler's Germany. Co-opting the youth is a common tactic for those that wish to exercise control over society. This is easy because the youth tend to be more gullible (sorry but its true, Pokemon anyone?).

The key question is why the education systems we all pay for are facilitating this (although perhaps not in this particular case, many schools in the US have also been willing channels for pro-intellectual property propaganda).

Re:The Badge

[Tackhead]

> > Those with tinfoil hats will surely be thinking of the youth in Orwell's 1984."
>
>Maybe if they keep the property then they will begin to think that the government can't interfere with their own intellectual property. This would be a huge step forward in China.

slashdot 54550 reporting: lastpost 877602 doubleplusungood refs unevent "great leap forward". Rewrite fullwise upmod anteposting.

If shinyvictoryhelmet wearing, plusoldposter unknow crimethink! PWN3D :)

--
Long live the Greater Eastasian Co-Prosperity Sphere Junior Anti-Piracy League!

Hmmm...

[0x461FAB0BD7D2]

I know that Scouts learn by doing things, such as tying knots, building camp fires and so on.

Does this mean they'll learn about IP by using BitTorrent, Exeem and so on? If so, about 70% of Hong Kong deserves that badge.

As an Eagle Scout,

[jockeys]

I feel compelled to say that this is utterly wrong. A scout is a lot of things. Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. But not "aware of copyright laws." I don't recall the Scout Oath containing anything about being a corporate shill for the recording industry; merely promising to do your duty to my God, my country, my community, and myself. This is absurd.

Re:l33t skillz merit badge

[Shadow Wrought]

To earn the l33t skilz merit badge one must obtain the IP merit badge off another Socut's uniform without the other Scout's knowledge.

Morals?

[mosb1000]

I thought the Boy Scouts were supposed to morals and leadership skills to future generations. I think respecting other peoples IP falls under the morals category. They already teach you not to plagiarize other peoples work, which is really the same thing, so I don't see why you find this so upsetting. I suppose next you were about to complain that they teach kids not to cheat on tests.

Just a question

[Sv-Manowar]

But who's this going to effect, the kids who go to Boy Scouts are more likely to be the ones who don't pirate films

The kids who sit at home on Kazaa and doing stuff other than helpful 'community building' activites will be most of the people who pirate things. Nice targetting MPAA. doh!

Baden Powell would spin in his grave

[EmbeddedJanitor]

The Boy Scouts were formed to make boys of upright character to serve the military and the Empire well.

The new Political Correctness, Explore Your Feminine Side, Gay Is OK, and now IP merit badges would surely make him choke on his undercooked damper-bread.

Re:Baden Powell would spin in his grave

[periol]

Just because you think "upright character" doesn't include having a feminine side or homosexuality doesn't make you right.

There are many paths to the truth. Some are more convoluted than others. Thank goodness the Boy Scouts have finally started to acknowledge that life doesn't come in one flavor. I don't like the IP merit badges anymore than the next geek, but at least my head isn't buried in the sand.