Slashdot Mirror
Hong Kong Boy Scouts to Protect IP
phresno writes "Declan McCullagh at C|net's News.com has a short article on the development that the Hong Kong Boy Scouts Association has teamed up with the MPA to create an intellectual property merit badge. Mike Ellis of the MPA hopes this program will 'provide thousands of young people -- future leaders -- with a better understanding of the value of intellectual property.' Those with tinfoil hats will surely be thinking of the youth in Orwell's 1984."
Is it just me, or is Hong Kong the perfect place for the MPAA to start brainwashing the youngest members of our society?
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
Funny how you can still make use of children if you hit the right note.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
How about a GPL Merit Badge?
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
Let me be one of the first to say this is absolutely sickening. Boy scouts are about honor and doing what is right and about self reliance and about all other good things like that. Not about serving commercial interests.
What next they have a McDonalds Merit Badge given to the kids who can eat a quarter pounder a day all week for supporting a good old american company? Well it means the same thing.
Really at the end of the day its just a badge. Sure it brainwashes kids to keep their intellectual property safe. Maybe if they keep the property then they will begin to think that the government can't interfere with their own intellectual property. This would be a huge step forward in China.
Don't mod me up.
Because, if you think piracy is bad here in the US...
In Asia it's all but legal. The problem is so big that mitigating it will take a lot more than a few boyscouts earning merit badges in Intellectual Property.
That is the most absurd think i've ever heard!!! Where is the world coming to?
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
Funny, my calendar shows May 3rd, not April 1st... this is just weird and scary.
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
You know, it used to annoy me that these two shared the same initials. Turns out it was just being a bit prophetic...
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
"Hong Kong Boy Scouts Association has teamed up with the MPA to create an intellectual property merit badge."
I think the "l33t skillz" merit badge is going to trump that one any day of the week...
When a large industry has trouble enforcing rules it effectively set (speficially copyright terms and reductions on what constitutes fair use,) and begins to use Boy Scouts to 'spread the gospel'/'indoctrinate', you have to wonder if the law really is in the interest of the people.
Yet another case of people serving the economy, as opposed to vice versa.
"Old man yells at systemd"
The key question is why the education systems we all pay for are facilitating this (although perhaps not in this particular case, many schools in the US have also been willing channels for pro-intellectual property propaganda).
Visitors to Hong Kong some years ago may remember the Golden Arcade. It was infamous for bootleg software, movies, video games, and anything else that resides on digital media.
After that got closed down due to U.S. pressure, they started opening up shops in dark alleys. I remember going to one of those places one time. There was a guy who stood in front of the dark alley way (I think I was 12 years old at the time), and I swear there was a 3-carat diamond attached to each of the numbers on his Rolex (and every one of his teeth, it seemed like). Talk about heaven. Through all the cigarette smoke, I was able to make out things like NT5 alpha CDs and PlayStation games. Those were the days. Although it seemed like you needed pretty good English skills to open up one of these outfits, since most buyers were British or Australian.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Boy scouts are about honor and doing what is right and about self reliance and about all other good things like that.
Well, it's a para-military brigade that was originally advertised as a good way to keep young boy's hands busy (i.e. to prevent them... going blind).
So it's a pretty good choice for an organisation who's been attempting through various means to indoctrinate the next generation into their view on copyrights.
You can't take the sky from me...
And I already had problems telling the two BSAs apart...
-- dR.fuZZo
I know that Scouts learn by doing things, such as tying knots, building camp fires and so on.
Does this mean they'll learn about IP by using BitTorrent, Exeem and so on? If so, about 70% of Hong Kong deserves that badge.
Apparently, you have to be able construct an FBI warning using nothing but your scarf, a pocketknife, and some damned-fine whittling.
Please post yours below:
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
The organization has also announced new available merit badges in the following categories:
- Fascism
- Lawsuits
- Falsifying evidence
- Misinterpreting technlologies they don't understand
Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
Why in the hell would the scouts take a position on a politicized issue like this?
This gives a whole new meaning to "Weblows"
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I feel compelled to say that this is utterly wrong. A scout is a lot of things. Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. But not "aware of copyright laws." I don't recall the Scout Oath containing anything about being a corporate shill for the recording industry; merely promising to do your duty to my God, my country, my community, and myself. This is absurd.
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
Those with tinfoil hats will surely be thinking of the youth in Orwell's 1984.
Is it OK for those of us without tinfoil hats to think the same thing?
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
Personally, I can't think of anything better than training young people to rat out their friends and families, all the while standing up for the rights of IP owners like Disney. We don't want those poor Hollywood bums to go broke do we?
Definitely Orwellian.
BDR Gear
Outdoor gear, MREs, and more!
Does the Hong Kong Boys Scouts Association have a drifting and automobile customization patch?
~Someday, I hope to be an aspiring author.
"Don't suspect a friend, report them."
Orwell was an optimist.
What's next, a /. moderation merit badge?
What's the point? Noone would qualify.
That depends on what you mean by "criminal element". Not that long ago when I was a boyscout we copied songs and movies to tapes and shared them.(sure the MPAA would have loved to curb that) We also shared them electronically via ftp using our 9600 baud modems.(and we liked it, up hill both ways and whatnot) Plus there was the usual 12-16 year old stuff beer, pot smoking and ciggarette smoking. Since not much has probably changed in 10 years I would imagine these are the kids sharing movies and soon to be kids sharing movies that the MPAA would love to indoctrina^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H influence.
The real problem with P2P filesharing is that many people don't actually realize that it is illegal. I fix a lot of computers and I have lost track of the amount of times that I have mentioned to someone that they were guilty of distributing copyrighted material illegally only to have them look at me like a deer caught in someone's headlights. Some people understand that what they are doing is illegal, but lots of folks have no idea. These people thought that free music was one of the perks of having an Internet connection and were generally horrified once they learned that what they were doing was illegal.
If it becomes second nature for even honest people to download bootleg music off the Internet then no amount of legislation or litigation is going to help the music industry (and later the television, movie, and publishing industries as well). So someone in the scouting organization is simply pointing out to these kids that disregarding copyrights is illegal and unethical. Personally I am hoping that this sort of thinking becomes more widespread. There is no question that the music industry is evil, but I don't think that throwing out copyrights is the answer.
As usual, the media distorts the picture.
Actually, this "badge" is useless. The number of kids going around buying copy PS2 games, CDs, etc. is amazing in Hong Kong. I'd say over 99% of PS2 games, software, DVDs, etc. in Hong Kong are copies/counterfeit. No doubt, they'll just get the badge and continue on their merry way as usual.
Counterfeit software and goods is a way of life and culture in Hong Kong, China, and many places in Asia. You have "Woman's Street", which is an ENTIRE long street dedicated to fake goods. You even have police patrolling the area to keep it safe from pickpockets! But they are never shut down. Go there to find your "LV" bags, "Dior" rings, and "Rolex" watches.
In fact, now that they have made it safer to go to these places, MORE tourists are turning up. There are less seedy types and more goods now.
So I really think this is a pointless exercise. Now that China and HK are working together more, even MORE copy stuff is going to HK. And with HK's famous low crime rate and focus on making money and business, it is the IDEAL place to get these kind of things: total safe, cheap, available everywhere.
**FREE** Track and view your phone's via CellID and/or WIFI and/or GPS
Shouldn't that be included under the IP merit badge, since it protects the intellectual property of open source developers.
Maybe the scouts also get to learn about barratry, buying politicians, ripping off artists, and price fixing! Boy scouts might finally be able to outsell those Girl Scout Cookies!
Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?
Note the current requirement #8 for Computers Merit Badge in the U.S.: http://www.meritbadge.com/mb/036.htm
I thought the Boy Scouts were supposed to morals and leadership skills to future generations. I think respecting other peoples IP falls under the morals category. They already teach you not to plagiarize other peoples work, which is really the same thing, so I don't see why you find this so upsetting. I suppose next you were about to complain that they teach kids not to cheat on tests.
Scout A: I'm working on the whitewater kayaking badge.
Scount B: I'm working on the wilderness survival badge.
Scout C: I'm working on the Intellectual Property badge.
Scouts A & B: Whoa! Cool!
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
But who's this going to effect, the kids who go to Boy Scouts are more likely to be the ones who don't pirate films
The kids who sit at home on Kazaa and doing stuff other than helpful 'community building' activites will be most of the people who pirate things. Nice targetting MPAA. doh!
Business Voyeur
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7813/
The BSA needs to respond.
------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
...since surely the first step in changing unjustly-attained corporate sponsored IP law is educating people why it is such a bad thing in and of itself.
"Copying a shitty CD will get me fined a billion dollars and raped in prison? That law sucks! Where do I sign up to change it?"
Also, I don't know if scouts in other countries is much like scouts here in the UK, but we used to make our own music, perhaps they could encourage these kids to create stuff instead of stealing/copying-with-infringement (delete as applicable) the shit the corporate machine is spewing out.
Game dev and music blog
Hmmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I'm just worried about this quote..
" Those with tinfoil hats will surely be thinking of the youth in Orwell's 1984."
I mean how did they know that I was thinking about the youth in Orwell's 1984 when I had my best tinfoil hat on?!? Obviously they have found a way to bypass the tried and true method to block mind control/reading.. Perhaps it's time to look towards different foil types?
Boy scouts scare the shit out of me.
Small children required to stand at attention, swearing oats they don't understand. Small children learning obidience to elders, to an organisation out of their parents control. Ever read about that anywhere? (this was a core element in italic/german fascism for the knowledge-impaired)
Sure, the organisation is benign and all nice and stuff now, but will it stay that way?
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
The new Political Correctness, Explore Your Feminine Side, Gay Is OK, and now IP merit badges would surely make him choke on his undercooked damper-bread.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
how about
Government Oppression Merit Badge (sponser: US/China/somecountryyoudon'tlike):
Do all of the following:
1. Become a party member
2. Join a mob action intended to silence a group of citizens
3. Burn books which have been found to be 'subversive'
4. Find 6 subversive people in your family or community.
5. Have them sent to work camps.
other badges:
Fascism Badge
Torture Badge (US Army MP's/former South American regimes/school of the americas).
WMD Search Merit Badge
Using Fear as a Tool to dominate the citzenry Merit Badge(that one's a little long...think of better name: Better Living through Fear Merit Badge).
Internet Censorship Badge (China again!)
Regime Change Badge
Foreign Intelligence Merit Badge (CIA/Pentagon)
do two of the following:
1. make up shit
2. fact check maybe
3. invade someone's 3rd world ass
hopefully everyone has been offended. if not please take the next 5 minutes to offend yourself.
That's a slippery slope you're heading down. Public funds are often used to promote things that are ostensibly in the public interest, but may not hold up to individual scrutiny 100 percent of the time. You might not like it that your local public library keeps copies of "Mein Kampf" and "Huckleberry Finn," but I would argue that a library system that doesn't carry those books on principle is not a library system at all. I might not agree that teaching abstinence is the best way to prevent pregnancy and transmission of STDs among teenagers, but I'm willing to have my tax dollars support groups that teach abstinence to teens, regardless of my opinion of their underlying political slant, because the benefits of teaching abstinence probably outweigh the negatives. (In other words, it's worth a try.) Similarly, you might not agree with everything the Boy Scouts teach, but as an institution it's probably done more good for more boys than it has done harm. It seems a little harsh to suggest pulling public funding on the basis of your personal opinions about the organization's ideology. That way of thinking isn't too far from the idea of withholding public arts funding from art that isn't to your personal taste (something else I disagree with). The world just isn't binary like that. Very few things are "all good" or "all bad," so why insist on trying to impose all-or-nothing solutions on them?
Breakfast served all day!
You try licking 30,000 stamps. 3 calories apiece, that'll keep you up all night and you're gonna have to be quite an exercise bug to get that weight off.
And with those impressive tongue muscles, you might as well stay morally straight because the women are gonna LOVE you....
Then again, maybe stamp collecting should be a girl scout badge...
I tend to agree that popular music is crap. However, millions of people disagree (which is why the music is "popular"). Either way, disregarding someone else's copyrights is hardly ethical.
Which is why I support artists that are outside of the mainstream. There is plenty of quality music where the artists are happy to let you download their work. I support these artists financially because that is the ethical way to change the music industry. Disregarding copyrights doesn't help anyone. It simply makes it more likely that laws will be passed that force DRM down all of our throats. I may disagree with the musicians that turn their copyrighted material over to the music industry, but it's a choice they made of their own free will. I know that I would be upset if someone used my copyrighted material contrary to my wishes. You simply can't claim the moral high ground while going against the wishes of the folks that created the music in the first case.
Basically, just because I don't like the music industry doesn't give me the right to violate their copyrights.
I couldn't find the details about this badge anywhere in the http://www.scout.org.hk/. Apperantly they have not uploaded the details of this new badge or they're not enthusiastic about it.
3 3&cid=12424010, this does not really matter anyway because no one would really care.
A k06.html
0 171.htm
From the Standard [1], this badge is NOT a MERIT BADGE. It's a proficiency badge which you cannot put it on the scout shirt. Besides, what you only need to do is to attend a series of seminars/indoctrinations as you see fit, and vola, you got the badge. The local media did try not to twist the story too much. So it's not really a matter of brainwashing after all, and Slashdotters should not really go crazy about this subject. Besides, some1somewhere was right on his post #12424010 http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1482
The HK SAR government seems to be quite enthusiastic about this and issued a press release [2].
References:
[1] http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Metro/GE04
[2] http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/200504/30/0429
28481k
1. This isn't court, it's a discussion forum.
2. I wasn't defending copyright infringement, I was explaining how it's not "theft," and why I think it's important not to call it theft.
3. By posting my opinions here, I am lobbying to change the law.
Maybe it would be a good time to make a Knoppix CD for scouts? Help them get the computing merit badge and maybe a few others? I loved scouting until I dropped out because of a shitty group and gave up my hopes for an Eagle, but you could do worse than use free software to help more geeks get merit badges and get Eagle Scout free software evangelists. Actually it would seem to be natural to use free software if you are going to limit copying to that which can be done legally.
It can be argued that the ideals of scouting are much more related to the free software / opensource movement than to the current abuses of intellectual property (which isn't bad in itself).
This is the point raised by Marco Fioretti in his two articles on LinuxJournal:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7533
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7813
Maybe these articles would make a good Slashdot story!