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On the Horizon: an Apache-License Version of Java
mparaz writes "Geir Magnusson of the Apache Software Foundation announced a J2SE 5 implementation project called 'Harmony.' It covers the virtual machine and the class libraries, and aims to pass the Sun specification.
A FAQ is available."
Could this be an essential aid to Tomcat and the increasing number of projects the apache foundation are managing within the Java space, such as ANT. This can only be a good thing
Business Voyeur
Cool! This will be useful for the majority of Linux desktops, because it means it could be installed as part of a default install, rather than having to download it and install it afterwards (==hell for lots of users).
http://people.apache.org/~geirm/harmony.jpg
The great beauty of the linux desktop is that it, like all *x desktop windowing systems, is not standardised - and therefore, you don't have to use a bloated implementation. Personally, I use openbox, which as about as far from bloated as you can get (assuming you something a little more sophisticated than twm..).
Also, the point of the sun specification for Java is (in part) to ensure that the JVM performs consistently across platforms.
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
C *is* cross-platform.
The system libraries, on the other hand.. well, that has nothing to do with the language. If you want cross-platform code, use cross-platform libraries.
If you can stick to using only functions in K&R and the POSIX Programmer's Reference Guide, you will find that your code (if written properly) will run damn near anywhere.
If you want a little more functionality (as much as you need, really) without GUI, adding the Apache Runtime Library will get you there -- portably. Especially under unices and workalikes.
C++ -- I'm not qualified to comment on that.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
The JamVM code is pretty standard as far as the VM goes. They all have to deal with the same things: the interpreter opcode loop (or JIT if they're masochists), the loader, the threads, hashing, string, base class, gc. If you've seen one Java VM implementation, you've seen them all. Writing the VM is easy - most VM projects are written by single individuals in a year or two. Writing the class libraries is infinitely more difficult and time consuming requiring dozens (if not hundreds) of programmers doing really dull non-flashy coding. Apache Harmony will only succeed if they can motivate indiviuals to basically recode the work that Classpath has already done. I do not think it is possible.
I'm sorry, but I'm just really not seeing this supposed "fragmentation" as a barrier to Linux on the desktop.
Quit the Java dependency. Head towards open standards.
How long will it take for the open source community to understand that C# is not only "a Java replacement", but a better technology? How long till people start reading the docs behind C#'s design?
Let's get this clear: Mono is free software, Java is not!
My intent is not to troll, but simply point out that, in the long run IMHO we should stick to Mono. Sun had its chance. It's done too little, too late.
Why all this investment of time on something that doesn't even have a standard by a credible overseer, like ISO, ANSI or ECMA?
This is perpetuating the Java/Sun dependency. Kick the habit!
Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
Pentiums didn't become really high-performance and free of notorious bugs until AMD made Pentium instructions run on a competing processor. Maybe Java needs more competition among virtual processors to see more innovations reach consumers.
--
make install -not war
... and open-source Solaris is "vaporware" even though there is no/nada/nil code available for the Apache J2SE 5.0 implementation. Some people need to have their heads screwed on right.
-- kryps
I'm rooting for them, but that is a huge project.
There is no shortage of half finished FOSS implementations of Java.
I'll believe it when I see it, and I will be grateful to Apache for making it happen.
Whenever open source and Java come up in a thread someone will always make the point that keeping Java under Sun's control prevents it from being bastardized.
The example of C starting out as a multiplatform language always comes up.
This reasoning may be correct, or it may not be.
I know python implementations are not exactly the same across platforms. There are some things I can do on linux with python that I can't do on windows.
Are there any examples of multiplatform, open source languages out there, running, that do not require the program to learn about platform specific issues?
...that project Harmony was the reason TrollTech chose to GPL (as versus seeing their strategic role usurped by an LGPL workalike). At which point Harmony dried up as redundant. So while it didn't per se do much, its historic impact isn't negligible.
I love Python. I left Java by the wayside when I found Python. I love the sparse look and feel, I love the strength of the language, I love the fact that I don't have to deal with 1000 different indentation styles when I read other people's code, I hugely appreciate all the python modules people have written that implement everything from databases to graphing packages.
And Python is all over the place, installed and ready to run. My old RH9 system has Python; my Mac has Python; my Windows box has Python.
Python. C when you have to have the performance, certainly. Python otherwise. :-)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I shouldn't have posted above while I had mod points, since this troll crap is modded "Insightful" by the Windows trolls moderators and other idiots.
Look, stupid, this is not just a "licensing fetish" (although as has been discussed, there is a perfectly good reason for Apache to not use the GPL or like Sun's license.)
The point of this project is to provide a compatible free Java that Apache can use to underpin its numerous Java-based projects.
It's an excellent idea - unless Sun ever comes out with a truly OSS license. And if they do, it will probably be because such a project is gaining traction.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
If Sun ever does do a completely OSS license, projects such as this are likely to be the cause.
That alone justifies the project.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Windows isn't where the main focus of Java use is. True, deployment of GUI apps is getting nicer with webstart and what have you, but the real focus is on the server side. And that means Linux and Solaris.
The Sun Solaris JVM, for example, is an utter pig to tune. It requires some of the most obscure settings imaginable, and by the time you're finished learning some virtual machine backwards you may as well have written it for the metal anyway (disclaimer: I develop in Java, the apps I write tend to need passable processing done with latencies of under a millisecond. The machines we use are big).
With Apache themselves being primarily on the server side, I would have thought they'd be concentrating on the various Unix derivatives first - with particular focus on Linux and Solaris.
Another interesting point - IBM have tended to use the Apache foundation to get open source code to the world through. I wonder if they're thinking of donating as much as they can (by license) of their own JVM?
Cheers,
Ian
It sounds like you're essentially suggesting that open source create something similar to the .NET CLR. It's an interesting idea, but it would be really difficult to get everyone to work together and agree on design details. .NET has the advantage that Microsoft gets to make all the decisions, so when an implementation choice would favor one language over another, they decide based on which language will make them more money. Open source projects won't subjugate themselves when it comes to these kinds of decisions. It could very easily end up in a situation where everyone argues and nothing ever gets done right or done at all.
Something like that stands a much better chance of happening if someone just goes off and does it. It would be neat if this new JVM includes an extension mechanism that allows people to write JIT compilers for other languages. But I just don't see Java users getting behind a runtime that doesn't place Java concerns ahead of all else. So I think it's doubtful that Parrot itself would ever end up being used as the basis for a new JVM.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"