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UK to lnstall Wireless Mics on London Streets
johnthorensen writes "Looks like parts of London may be seeing wireless microphones on the street sometime soon. At this point, they're looking to use them to monitor noise ordinance violations - if you call about a repeated disturbance, they'll mount one by your place to monitor noise levels for the next several days. The article also notes that they intend to locate them more permanently outside bars and nightclubs. The microphones apparently communicate via wireless Internet connection, although no real details are given as to the nature of said connection. Are London residents getting the boiled frog treatment?"
I don't think its coincidence that George Orwell was British.
The more you know, the less you understand.
... and to be honest I can't get too worked up about this.
Public streets are just that: public. You don't get to veto who's watching and/or listening to you. If you want to discuss insurrection or your new water-fuelled-engine invention, go somewhere private.
Besides, excessive noise is an infringement of privacy too, in my opinion.
" if you call about a repeated disturbance, they'll mount one by your place to monitor noise levels for the next several days." Saturday night: End all party (the forth this month to end all) file a noise complaint Monday: Technition installs mic (if your LUCKY, and he installs it on the first workday) Tues-Thurs: nothing recorded on mic Compaired to: Saturday: Police come to noise complaint, tell people to shut it off and go home *note* im a firm beliver in just going over there myself before anyone gets called, its faster than waiting for the police anyway you look at it.
Like the saying goes, never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes. -Pyrotic
The first thing this reminded me of was the book 1984, where people are worried that hidden microphones may pick up their anti Big Brother conversations.
Having said that, it might be okay as long as actual sounds are not transmitted, but rather just sound levels (properly encrypted of course). Somehow, I don't have much faith though.
The UK is slowly moving towards a survalance nation. We have more CCTV per person than anyone else in Europe. Of course, violent crime is actually on the rise.
Frankly, I don't really care if my attacker was caught on CCTV, or even brought to justice. What I care about is not being mugged in the first place, feeling safe and protecting my privacy.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm not crying slippery slope, but at what point do you stand up and say this isn't right?
The more you know, the less you understand.
the sky didn't fall!
neither did crime
At least they're not touting this as an anti-terrorist measure. I guess that's no longer as credible as it used to be.
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
Orwell was right! He was only 21 years ahead of his time.
In need of reliable and affordable server monitoring?
One big question about the deployment of such mics: how will they interoperate with other WiFi networks?
If they will interfere or occupy the wrong frequency bands it's a big help to those who have all to fear from the technical achievements of WiFi.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
Well, part of it is a good idea, the part you mention. However, what is problematic imho is this part:
"The article also notes that they intend to locate them more permanently outside bars and nightclubs. The microphones apparently communicate via wireless Internet connection, although no real details are given as to the nature of said connection."
While this may also be justified if you want to meassure noise levels (and if there is a concrete issue), having to worry about things you talk about on the street being recorded by the authorities certainly isn't something we should take lightly.
and I have to disagree.
There's a difference between between "public" as in "you can't complain if someone stands next to you in the tube and overhears all of your conversation" and "public" as in "you never know who's watching and listening". London is already tightly packed with CCTV (although I have to object to the "CC". I fail to see what's so closed circuit about wireless cameras that present their pictures on the net, like this one, very close to where I live). Nevertheless, whenever the police publishes pictures of an "unidentified" mugger, you see that it is actually impossible to identify an unknown person on the pictures. What is possible, however, is to follow certain persons around town as they do their daily work.
To cut it short: London is already quite Orwellian (the Royal Opera is right...). We definitely do not need microphones eavesdropping on us. I can already see the first headlines in the metro: "Drug dealers arrested after being overheard by micros!" And everyone will cheer...
I take it you're not British. Might I ask if you have any experience living in Britain, or if you're just basing your opinion on second-hand information?
It all depends if the microphones are linked to equipment which is simply measuring the volume, or recording the actual sounds.
Having lived in a flat very close to a nightclub, I'd support measures to fight their noise nuisance. If you were plotting to overthrow the government, you'd have no worries about the microphone picking it up - the relentless thud, thud, thud would drown you out.
I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
It saddens me that us british (on the whole) are content to sit idly by and allow such infringements on our freedom.
Think about all those who died in the past two world wars to protect it; we should value our freedom highly.
Of course, knowing people (as a gestalt entity) nothing will be done until the time comes when it costs lives to regain said freedom.
I wait now for the first life taken by such invasions; the first poorly secured ID card to be forged, the first nun to be jailed due to an error in finger print recognition (and of course the system is never wrong is it).
*places tinfoil hat firmly on head*
I am a Brit. I have lived in several other countries. I have visited many, many more.
The previous poster is exactly right. Most english people do not care about things like this. From ID cards to constant surveillence, most people are not even aware that they exist.
Should they be aware then the standard response is "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Govt gone to war against Iraq? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Civil liberties being removed? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Schools and hospitals taken over by unaccountable (by law!) private enterprise? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
People criminalised for walking about naked in their own homes? (Seriously, some of the recent ASBOs are really stupid) "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Women gang-raped by Army officers? "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
Until, finally, we'll have immigrants and 'possible terrorists' being sent for 'showers' and 'relocation' and STILL the response will come: "well, nothing you can do about it is there?"
I am living in a country of ignorant, apathetic asshats. Frankly, the UK deserves everything it gets. I beg all terrorists reading this post to come and detonate a series of massive dirty bombs up and down the country - put the world and all english people out of our misery. Please. We're too stupid to be allowed to live.
Is it me, or does this say something about Europe vs USA: "My neighbour is playing loud music!" vs "My neighbour is shooting at me!"
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
Petrol is highly taxed in the UK for similar reasons to the high cigarette taxes - to discourage people from unnecessary driving which pollutes and congests and requires covering large amounts of our available land area in tarmac.
The reason no party campaigns on the issue is that prices have to keep going up, and it's a damn good thing that they will. Any politician promising to cut those taxes will get excoriated in the press by environmentalists, it's not worth picking up the votes from the motorheads.
You're right, it would be better if we followed the Southern middle-classes and voted Tory. Bring back Michael Scumbag Howard, just what we need. Put Widdecome in charge of policies in drugs and personal freedoms.
The Tories would be a massive step back for Britain. Anti-rights, anti-drugs, pro-religion, anti-Europe, run by the rich for the rich. No thanks. The Tories are dead and buried. On Thursday they didn't gain any votes, Labour lost them.
We choose to pay more taxes
We don't choose to pay more taxes, the taxes are forced on us. How many people do you think like the petrol taxes and other such regressive taxes? How many people choose council tax which is not even based on ability to pay? And even when you do pay the binmen rarely bother emptying your bins, the streets are full of traffic wardens giving people tickets because the council want even more money to waste.
In Britain we seem to have the worst of capitalism and socialism. We pay extortionate taxes, but the services are awful. Hospitals are filthy, inefficient, beaurocratic and disease-ridden, schools are disorderly and full of crime and drugs, roads are falling apart despite motorists being taxed to the hilt, the police care more about the criminals than the victims. Most people don't even get dentists, yet have to pay taxes towards them for other people.
I recall reading some research on the video camera london installed on its streets. They found that operators/human monitors of the feeds spent most of their time focused on the sexual activities of people on the street. They also found some of the people on the street, playing to the cameras.
Well I guess London is getting into the amature candid porn business....
Where I live, Indiana, they recently began an sign campaign for our mandatory seatbelt law - "A Law we can live with." Sure its an impingement on my basic freedom to do to my own body what I wish, but its so minor that I won't bother to protest it. This IS the boiling frog - since the founding of America, its citizens have been slowly succombing to the raping of their fundamental freedoms with this very attitude. If you beLIEve that these mikes won't be abused by those in power, you live in a fantasy world. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The end.
If one side of his building faces a residential area, and the other side is a commercial area, then I guess he's just done some noise pollution managment, and the neighbors will love him.
You wanna dispute the facts? Dispute them.
I however refer interested readers to the following books:
Howard Zinn's _A People's History of the USA_ (probably available on p2p)
Jerry Fresia's _Toward An American Revolution_ available online here.
Both authors have PHDs (History and Political Science).
Now put up or shut up.....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Stick to the rules and you won't get busted, it's as simple as that. If you do that then you will pay the same amount of tax as you did before the cameras while your government will give you better services because of the revinue from others.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Has it occurred to you that you can be legal and still an inconsiderate dick?
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Yeah, I love his line:
He should be embarassed and ashamed. Not all neighbours are reasonable, but FFS, he's puting his stereo over the well being of his neighbour. What the hell is the matter with this righteous prick?
It's no wonder people move into gated communities.
Man, they pumped your ass so full of propaganda that you squeak when you walk, and now the shit's coming out your ears and leaking onto your keyboard (and onto Slashdot!).
First, there have NEVER been "mob rule" (ooohhh!!!) in any western nation. THe rich make sure of that. But if we did have "mob rule", we might have horrors like we have in countries where the percent of citizen voting is really high, like say Denmark or Australia, where they have horrors like "Free College" (ewwww!) and "universal healthcare"! (please save us!)
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Think about it, if the government says you are a terrorist then you are, the second you start making decisions based on fear is the moment its all over. The only reason we arent in a police state is because its not going to be easy to put a police state on hundreds of millions of fearless American people. If Americans start to fear the government that makes it much easier.
I didn't say we had a police state, and frankly our government's recent activity should be alarming, and unless you consider the Patriot Act and similar abominations to be mere "propaganda" you have your head in the sand. In any event, I said that our government has created a legal climate that is very similar to police state: unconstitutional search-and-seizure and near-total lack of accountability by law enforcement should be enough to alarm anyone. And that's just for starters. The fact that the United States government hasn't yet chosen to fully exercise the powers it has arrogated to itself is no reason for complacency. Too many times our leaders have justified excessive powers, claiming that "oh, we'll never use them" or "we'll only use them to do good things" and my all-time favorite, "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear." Sure. And just as many times they've overstepped their bounds and people got hurt. Hell, it was Congress that reigned in the FBI under Hoover, but now Congress seems to have gone over to the Dark Side too.
... I may live to regret posting on Slashdot. So may you. And if you really believe that posting A.C. means anything regarding actual anonymity you're fooling yourself some more. Truth is, under current U.S. law, if they want me they have me, and there isn't a God damned thing I can do about it.
Ultimately, a government should only be allowed a minimum of power, just enough to achieve the goals laid down by its Constitution (or whatever document constitutes the supreme law of any particular country.) Our government is currently way beyond that point.
And you never know
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
If the frog keeps jumping out as you slowly increase the temperature, you forgot to put on the lid.