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The Apple II: The Machine That Started It All

Thomas Hormby writes "The first Apple II was sold on June 5, 1977. It was outfitted with a 1 mhz processor, 4 KB of RAM, a keyboard and a cassette interface. Despite the seemingly paltry specs, the machine made Apple, and bankrolled the LISA, Macintosh and LaserWriter. Besides building Apple, the machine revolutionized the entire microcomputer business, pulling it way from the hobbyist kits and closer to todays PC. Read about it at MLAgazine."

83 comments

  1. More background from PBS by amichalo · · Score: 4, Informative

    The PBS Triumph of the Nerds specials have additional information on the early years of the Personal Computer.

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  2. From TFA by yardbird · · Score: 3, Funny
    (Breakout did not need uppercase and lowercase characters, so Wozniak did not include them).

    I remember word processing at the time. Lots of punctuation.

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  3. Wrong picture by pauljlucas · · Score: 3, Informative

    TFA shows a picture of an Apple //e, not an Apple ][. To see the latter, look here.

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    1. Re:Wrong picture by ncc74656 · · Score: 1
      TFA shows a picture of an Apple IIe, not an Apple II.

      In another bit of weirdness with their pic, I don't know of anybody who ever kept a DuoDisk off to the side. It was designed so that you could sandwich it between the computer and the monitor.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  4. wrong on at least some details on cassette storage by call+-151 · · Score: 5, Informative

    In order to make machine readable cassettes, the user had to use a very sensitive tape recorder. Besides the recorders, users also had to buy media, which was way more expensive than standard floppy disks.

    Sorry- that wasn't the case. Commodity standard cassette recorders worked really well for storing Integer BASIC and machine language code and they used ordinary cassette tapes that were way way cheaper than floppies, particularly at that time.
    --
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  5. Well, I tell ya'll, kids by liangzai · · Score: 4, Funny

    back in the days, we survived on virtually nuthin', just one megahertz and a far cry from those gatesy 256 kB everyone was dreamin' of.

    You kids of today 'ave it easy. You've got your gigahertz machines with gigabytes o' memory in RAM and on disk, splashee colors, many-button mice, DVD burnahs and tha intahweb, downloading more porn in one day than granpa has seen in his entire lifetime, ehhhehh.

    Sniff. Nevertheless... back in da good ole' days we play'd Breakout faster on our lo'ly Apples than you do today with your Penthsium class Linux box'n. How do ya figure this is?

    1. Re:Well, I tell ya'll, kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funny thing is, I just played a game sort of like centipede before reading this article ... it was inside an AD at the top of the page.

  6. Spellcheck by Fish+Heads · · Score: 2, Funny

    And I remember getting a Spellcheck utility (I think it was from Beagle Bros.) for AppleWriter.

    Too bad the author of that webpage didn't use one. I hear they are quite good these days...

    --
    Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately it doesn't seem to be working. -Anon
  7. Apple II innovations by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I worked in a computer shop selling computers at the time the apple II came on the scene. The brands around then were Imsai, cromenco, Sol, Northside, and even an altair if you wanted one. With the exception of the comodore pet, they all ran on 8080, 8085 or Z-80.

    All had traditional power gobbling transfomer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies. If they had a bus it was an enornmous S-100 bus. None had memory mapped I/O or could interleave graphics and text. If they had disks, they were hard sectored disks. And most important of all none used Dynamic memory natively. You could buy dynamic memory cards as S-100 plug ins but they were not reliable.

    Unlike the 8080/Z-80 the 6502 had a symmetric instruction clock cycle and all so there was a free cycle where memory woas gaurenteed not to be accessed every other cycle dependably. (not true of the 8080) This meant you could use that interval to refresh the dynamic ram. Thus one never had to insert wait states or have flaky thing happen when there was an irregular refresh rate. It simply worked.

    But Wozniak and co, were even more clever. Why waste that clock refresh? since the duration was the same as the regular memory fecth time, they made it a full fetch. But what fetch that had to increment repetiviely over the upper 8 bits of address space would be useful? The video memory! so they backsided the video memory fetch on that.

    Contrary to today having memory mapped video was better than having th e video memory on a graphics card. On most grpahic cards when the CPU was accessing the memory they video card could no and you saw glitches. thus video updates were usualy timed by the CPU to occur in thehorizonatal and veritcal re-trace blanking intervals. very clumsy and slow.

    Apple used a switching power supply. the first I had ever seen. it was small, and took up no room. the imsai, altair, cromenco and northside computer were huge and half of them were the power supply. some of the capacitors in those were 8 inches tall and 3 inches in diameter. The switching powersupply made this thing a lighe weight "desktop" freindly unit. you could pick it up and easily move it.

    It was partly the use of dynamic memory instead of static memory that made this possible. The power draw on static memory is enourmous. and the memory density on static memory was tiny. plus it was very expensive. it consumed most of the mother board. Today's computers would not be possible without it.

    I assumed the apple II was a toy when I saw it's teeny tiny plug-in buss cards. until I looked at it's design. svelt memory mapped cards. all the address space decoding was done by the mother board so you didn't have to waste repetative logic on each card decoding it's own address. same with the power regulation. The switich power supply also gave lower ripple so less regulation was needed.

    When apple came out with a disk it was the first reliable soft sectored floppy. I had sold lots of softsectored (8") floppies made by others and saw most of them come back too. Who wants an unrelaible storage system. The apple one worked. and soft secotring made it cheap since it had almost no added electorinics on board. It was all driven from software.

    Then of course there was the choice of the 6502. it was a breath fo freshair compared to the 8080. It piplined the next instruction. it used relative jump extensively (calucalting an offset based on a register value not the hardwired instruction). It only had an accumulator and three registers. All the rest were memory mapped to the first 256 bytes of memory. So effectively it had enough registers you could really do something. the 8080 was hamstrung and register bound. and because of the pipelining the 6502 didn't lose any speed for the memory fetch using memory mapped registers.

    However even then the MHZ myth was strong. people thought a 4Mhz intel must be faster than a 1Mhz 6502. It was not. nearly all the 8080 instructions were 3 to 5 clock cycles in length

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    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Apple II innovations by Dammital · · Score: 4, Informative
      "Apple used a switching power supply. the first I had ever seen. it was small, and took up no room."
      The power switch for the Apple ][ was an integral part of that power supply, and it wasn't very rugged. If you broke that switch you were looking at a power supply replacement at (if I remember correctly) $150 or so.

      Enter Kensington, whose first product was the "System Saver", a combination muffin fan, external power switch, and surge suppressor. Many of my Apple ][ buds owned one. It kept that Apple power switch from being used all the time, and it helped keep the inside cool (if you had lots of cards then the ribbon cables and their retainers blocked the ventilation slots in back. I knew people that routinely ran their computers with the cover propped open.

      (Oh, the Kensington web site brags that they "became the number-one-selling peripheral for the Apple II". This distinction has to go to the M&R Sup-R-Mod, the add-in RF modulator that sold with nearly every machine, thereby circumventing FCC emissions rules.)

    2. Re:Apple II innovations by sootman · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the 6502 is so great, it'll still be in use in the year 3000.

      All kidding aside, great post. I was only in 4th grade when the Apple ][ came out (but my elementary school had 3, w00t!) and missed a lot of this stuff.

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    3. Re:Apple II innovations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to recall that most Apples were sold with greenscreen or composite color monitors. I owned 3 of them and never used an RF Mod or had any desire to plug them into the TV.

  8. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Informative

    audio cassette tapes worked MOST of the time. But they were lower quality and more prone to damage. Also the data cassettes did not have a blank leader tape. thus you could start recording the moment you turned them on and not have to wait some period of time after a rewind to start recording. Finally when the recorder was controlled by the computer and not the human pushing buttons it could rewind and seek by itself. At that time audio grade readhead were not reccomended for fast forwarding the tape as they would be destroyed by wear. computer readheads were hardened.

    but in simple fact for simple storage needs audio tapes and recorders sis work well. but there was a slightly higher risk of data loss.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  9. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Pope · · Score: 3, Insightful

    IBM saw nothing. They were too stupid worrying that their little "home" computer, the PCjr, was going to take sales away from their lacklustre desktop that they crippled the jr, loading it with non-standard I/O ports and connectors, when in truth it outshone the IBM PC in many ways. The jr died a year later.

    Compaq reversed engineered the BIOS, and it was all over for IBM's attempted dominance of the PC industry.

    As for "lack of open standards" what do you mean? PCI? AGP? FireWire? USB 1 and 2? DVI? tcsh? bash?

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  10. Free Apple ][ Motherboard (you pay shipping...) by rthille · · Score: 1

    My wife told me there was a bunch of computer gear they were throwing out at the university she attends, so I went rooting...
    Found an obviously early Apple motherboard. With $$$s in my eyes I was thinking it might be an Apple I. Alas, the motherboard is for an early Apple ][.
    I'm loath to throw it out, but I've got a bunch of computer junk, and don't need more.
    So, if you're interested, email me and I'll ship it to you COD. Or, if you're in the North SF Bay area (Sebastopol), I can maybe drop it by...

    --
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    1. Re:Free Apple ][ Motherboard (you pay shipping...) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about just the motherboard, but the original Apple // is generally worth more than its successors. I once put up for sale a //, //plus, and //e. Most everyone wanted the //, even when I tested it to discover it died, the buyer still wanted it. The //plus wasn't hard to find a buyer for, (but for a lower price.) And the //e? Wound up donating it to a local school.

  11. To sort the men out from the boys.... by Angostura · · Score: 2, Funny

    What does

    3D0G mean to you, eh?

    1. Re:To sort the men out from the boys.... by rthille · · Score: 1

      Jump back to the BASIC interp. from the monitor rom?

      What's $60 or $EA? and why were they useful? :-)

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    2. Re:To sort the men out from the boys.... by b1t+r0t · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Hah. For the real men, what does "CD C9 01" mean to you?

      (I hand-assembled a lot of Z-80 code back in the day. I never liked the 6502 instruction set much and still don't now that I'm playing with Atari 2600/7800 code. At least the instructions were faster. But the 6809 puts them both to shame.)

      --

      --
      "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
      "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
    3. Re:To sort the men out from the boys.... by sickofthisshit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Only if DOS is installed in the machine.

      Ctrl-C Return was the monitor command; DOS would usually get reattached as soon as Basic printed the prompt character and waited for keyboard input. But you could, in theory, totally disconnect the I/O hooks without doing I/O to reconnect them. 3D0G would re-establish the DOS connection cleanly, assuming you hadn't toasted the instruction at $3D0 itself.

    4. Re:To sort the men out from the boys.... by aduzik · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The 6502 instruction set is a pain. For my senior thesis, I wrote a dynamic recompiler that translated 6502 code into PowerPC code. Useless? Totally, but fun to see it disassemble code from old Apple II programs and reassemble them into PowerPC code.

      --
      If it's not one thing it's your mother.
    5. Re:To sort the men out from the boys.... by The+Blue+Meanie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      $60 is an RTS and $EA is a NOP. Both were very handy for "shunting" around the various copy-protection schemes in use on old Apple ][ programs.

      I can't count the number of times I sector-edited in a sequence of "EA EA EA" somewhere.

      --
      "I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." -- Tom Lehrer
    6. Re:To sort the men out from the boys.... by turgid · · Score: 1

      Well, it's Z80 for CALL $01C9. What machine is it on? Tell us, and we'll look up the ROM disassembly :-)

  12. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by rekleov · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Saying that Apple "blew it" due to not using open standards is to miss a sizable section of the picture. Large businesses held off from buying computers until they had received the Stamp of Approval from IBM. Apple was picked up by many early adopters (schools, small businesses using VisiCalc, etc.), but there was no way that large corporations would rely on such a small company when IBM could deliver on a much greater scale (at least in the minds of those contemplating computer purchases for said companies). Open standards were barely dreamed of by the time the war was over --- they appeared mainly because the war was over.

    That Apple survived when the vast majority of their contemporaries failed shows that they hardly "blew it"; that they are making a healthy profit today says that their guerrilla action won't be ending any time soon.

  13. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "It's really a shame when you consider the influence they could have had. Personally, I'm just glad that IBM was smart enough to see an industry instead of a market."
    That is funny. Really.
    IBM did not support open standards. The open standard at that time was the Z-80 or 8085 running CP/M. IBM did document everything in the PC and used commodity parts but they also tried to sue the early clone makers. The first legal clones had to reverse engineer the BIOS and even then it was not 100 compatible. IBM was tricky and had Basic in ROM and the BASICA that you loaded with PC-DOS used part of the ROM. It would only run on a 100% IBM. Eventually programmers learned how to write compatible code so programs would run on most of the clones. If you read computer mags from the time the "standard" test was to run Microsoft Flight Simulator and Lotus 123. If a machine could run those two programs it was good enough.
    The IBM PS/2 line was an attempt to STOP the clones. The reason the PS/2 line failed was that the clones offered a cheaper alternative. The PS/2 was technically a better machine than the clones but the lack of add on cards make the clones the better choice. BTW the ps/2 keyboard port, ps/2 mouse port, VGA, and 1.44 Floppy all started with the IBM PS/2.

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  14. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by wandazulu · · Score: 1

    I agree with you; IBM also rallied against the ISA bus when they realized it was out of their control with Micro Channel, which was technically better than ISA, but they wanted a fee for other companies to use it.

    I'm guessing the parent was talking about NuBus and ADP, which is correct, they were not standard, but on the other hand, were technically superior (NuBus allowed for multiple video cards to run without any configuration, ADP allowed for device chaining while PS/2 ports are still single-device-only).

    Today it's all about the standards, but back then there really weren't any that you'd *want* to standardize on. I would argue that NuBus needed to exist for the PCI designed to look at, same with ADP and USB.

  15. 3D0G, seprating men from boys. by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    3D0G,
    well if you are really a man, then it means a damn cold night in the arctic. A 3 dog night in fact.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  16. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Apples and most other 8-bit computers used standard consumer cassette decks. IIRC, the Apple could not "seek" by itself, you had to plug in an earphone and listen for the gaps in the tape.

  17. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by call+-151 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Most of us used the "tape counter" three digit counter as a directory. 005: brickout 020: lemonade stand 045: eliza and so on...

    --
    It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
  18. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by b1t+r0t · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cheap tapes worked fine for us TRS-80 folks too. The main problem with cheap tapes was dropouts. Since the TRS-80 had motor control, it would stop the tape player when it got an error, and you could usually see the bad spot on the tape that caused the dropout.

    --

    --
    "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
    "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
  19. Nostalgia by Sundroid · · Score: 1

    How I remember the blinking green monster of the Apple Eye-Eye monochrome screen so well...

    (Dissolve the picture, a la reminiscing mode, and cue the early 80s disco hits, if you please)

    I was working for a Roger-Cormanish Hollywood cheapo movie company with a boss that was into computer tech, and we were one of the first productions to use an accounting software that was, at the time, still being fine-tuned as the movie was shot. When we started out, there was no such thing as hard disk, and swapping those big old 5-1/4-inch floppies was no fun. Later on, we upgraded to a hard disk that had a "whopping" 20-meg storage capacity, and it broke down on a daily basis.

    Oh, yeah, even back then Hollywood knew it was critical to "count" the money in glorious high-tech fashion.

    1. Re:Nostalgia by Mikito · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah yes, the Apple II. I had an Apple II once, but it was the later, smaller variant, the Apple IIc. I think one of the reasons why I chose to get it rather than an Atari 400, Commodore Vic-20 or TI-whatever, is that the Apple IIc was so small.

      Apple kept promising that they would release a small LCD screen that would attach to the back of the computer. Imagine the prospect of having a (semi)portable computer in the early '80s! The LCD screen as pictured in magazines must have been capable of showing just 10 or so lines of text vertically. I never did get to see one of those screens in person.

      I know that the personal computers of that era were primitive in comparison to what we have today, but back then there was a certain thrill in using a personal computer. A feeling of exploring new possibilities. Computers were still fairly exotic creatures at the time.

      The software was primitive as well, but evocative in its own way: Lemonade Stand (I kid!), Bard's Tale, Zork! I also remember the hours spent in laboriously typing in programs from magazines and books, and hoping that I didn't make a typo somewhere.

      It's amazing how much nostalgia you can feel for something which was in every objective way inferior to what you have now.

      --
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  20. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    The first Apple II was sold on June 5, 1977. It was outfitted with a 1 mhz processor, 4 KB of RAM, a keyboard and a cassette interface.

    Imag *me ducks*

    whew, close call,

    gine a beo *whack*. ;)
    1. Re:Wow by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      wulf cluster (not the link I was looking for, but this guy generated fractals with a cluster of //c's) of Apple IIs?

      I was looking for a link where some guy took eight //e boards, stacked them up, created a network protocol via the gameport, and then wrote an Applesoft program to run the cluster. Anyone have a link?

  21. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by 2TecTom · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    and then there's the whole story ...

    Second they decided on an open architecture so that other manufacturers could produce and sell compatible machines -- the IBM PC compatibles, so the specification of the ROM BIOS was published. IBM hoped to maintain their position in the market by royalties from licensing the BIOS, and by keeping ahead of the competition.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC (italics are mine)

    My point still stands. I'd probably have owned a Mac or be using a Mac OS if Steve Jobs wasn't so much like Bill Gates. I'm just glad there wasn't a similiar egotist running IBM at the time.

    Of course, anyone who dares to question Apple is always labelled. Why is that? Insecurity, perhaps?

    --
    Words to men, as air to birds.
  22. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple's profit is tiny compared to, say, Microsoft. So, in that sense, they've lost money. Oh, by the way, what about Compaq, Dell, HP, etc., etc.?

  23. The Apple ][ Floppy - Reliable? by ratboy666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now that's a hoot.

    The apple used minimal circuitry for everything. Including floppy. Bit decode was done in software. Which meant that the drives had to be almost EXACTLY the same rotational speed, or they couldn't exchange disks.

    As to soft sector being more reliable -- sorry, that's also not true. Hard sector is actually more reliable. Simple put, if a sector is damaged, it is possible to skip over it, and read sectors after it on the same track. Not possible (with ANY reliability) using a soft-sector format. As to cost savings? The hole detector is in the drive anyway (for either 1 hole, or n holes).

    And, yes, my Apple ][ still works.

    Ratboy

    --
    Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
    1. Re:The Apple ][ Floppy - Reliable? by The+Blue+Meanie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Which meant that the drives had to be almost EXACTLY the same rotational speed, or they couldn't exchange disks.

      Not necessarily. Because of the use of self-sync bytes and a required set high-bit for any disk byte, the software decode was remarkably tolerant of speed variations on the drives. I saw Apple II drives whose speeds were 2-3% off from spec still operate perfectly, including exchanging disks with other systems.

      if a sector is damaged, it is possible to skip over it, and read sectors after it on the same track. Not possible (with ANY reliability) using a soft-sector format.

      Also not true. The Apple II's disk-encoding scheme had a header preceding each sector, with sufficient information to synchronize with and identify each sector 100% reliably, regardless of the condition of any other sector on that track. It was quite possible to have 15 of 16 sectors on an Apple II disk perfectly (and consistently) readable.

      --
      "I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." -- Tom Lehrer
    2. Re:The Apple ][ Floppy - Reliable? by ratboy666 · · Score: 1

      blue meanie:

      I stand by my comment: requiring 3 - 5% or better tolerance is not acceptable. We had to hand-match Apple ][ drives back in '77 to ensure that the two drives could exchange data. First and last time I've ever had to do this.

      As to "100%" reliable... it is possible to "accidentally" record a data pattern that duplicates the synchronization header. Just about the only system that this was possible on was the Apple ][.

      (Side note: 3270 format "soft sector" came first. Followed by "hard sector". Apple didn't actually innovate -- except withe the strange "group encoding" chosen to allow the 1Mhz 6502 to decode the bit stream in software.)

      However, saving the expense of (1) a proper floppy controller, (2) a proper video generator, (3) delegating everything to the 6502, did make the machine remarkably affordable.

      Just not remarkably dependable.

      But Apple does get cred for making the computer popular for home and school use.

      Ratboy

      PS. U an looking for an Apple ][ DOS 3.3 boot disk. Email me if you can make me a copy.

      --
      Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
    3. Re:The Apple ][ Floppy - Reliable? by The+Blue+Meanie · · Score: 4, Informative
      Seriously not trying to be flamebait here. We'll see if the mods disagree.

      requiring 3 - 5% or better tolerance is not acceptable. We had to hand-match Apple ][ drives back in '77 to ensure that the two drives could exchange data.

      These were drives that took 200ms (yes, that's .2 seconds) per revolution. They had a trim-pot for speed adjustment and you had to put several turns on it to get the drive far enough out of spec to misread disks.
      Hundreds of Disk II drives have passed through my possession, and I've never had to match their speeds to that level unless I was dealing specifically with a bitchy, temperamental nibble-count protected disk - and those were somewhat rare. Standard 16-sector format Apple II disks were phenomenally tolerant of speed variation. I respectfully submit that your memory likely exceeds your experience in this case.

      As to "100%" reliable... it is possible to "accidentally" record a data pattern that duplicates the synchronization header. Just about the only system that this was possible on was the Apple ][.

      The sector header (and there was one for EVERY sector, not one per track) consisted of 3-byte prologue (D5 AA 96) that used unique byte values that were not possible to generate using the standard 5&3 encoding scheme, followed by the track, sector and volume number 4&4 encoded into 6 bytes, followed by a checksum byte 4&4 encoded into two bytes, followed by a two-byte epilogue (DE AA) also using unique values not possible from the standard 5&3 encoding. If the checksum didn't validate those volume, track and sector values, the header was considered no good and ignored.

      Yes, it is possible to "accidentally" record a pattern that would duplicate such a header. It's also possible (and probably just as likely) to throw a Scrabble set in the air and get Shakespeare. :)

      However, saving the expense of (1) a proper floppy controller, (2) a proper video generator, (3) delegating everything to the 6502, did make the machine remarkably affordable.

      Now this, I can agree with 110%. As a bonus, it also made the machine remarkably FLEXIBLE as well. There was very little - if anything - that the hardware prevented you from doing. The Apple II was a true "hacker's" machine, in the spirit of the original meaning of the word.

      Just not remarkably dependable.

      For unusual values of dependable, maybe. :) I have dozens of Apple //e's, Super Serial Cards, Disk II drives & controllers, all of which are 20+ years old and all of which are still as functional as the day they were built. How many other systems from that era are anything but dumpster fodder right now?

      PS. U an looking for an Apple ][ DOS 3.3 boot disk. Email me if you can make me a copy.

      I use ProDOS for the most part, especially since I only have a IIgs set up active at the moment. Not to mention DOS 3.3 support for hard drives is dismal at best. I'd have to dig for a bit to get you a DOS 3.3 disk. However, I do know people that could readily provide you one, and I'd be happy to get you set up.
      Also, consider dropping by comp.sys.apple2 if talk of these older machines (and what they're still being actively used for today, like this incredibly cool project) is appealing to you.

      --
      "I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." -- Tom Lehrer
  24. The Apple II: The Machine That Started It All by babbage · · Score: 0
    The Apple II: The Machine That Started It All

    Not to nitpick, but wouldn't the computer with a "one" in the name be more usefully thought of as the one that started it all ?

    And that's not even getting into earlier computers that can be thought of as having started it all (EVIAC anyone?) or proto-computers (*ahem* Babbage's Difference and Analytical Engines) or proto-proto-computers (the Jacquard loom, the abacus, etc), or more broadly, the things that *really* started it all (the Big Bang, the original monocellular organisms, or for the people in Kansas, pick your fairy tale of choice).

    Maybe we should have clarified what "it" is that was "all started". But it's too late now...

    1. Re:The Apple II: The Machine That Started It All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, the apple II was more important than any of that

    2. Re:The Apple II: The Machine That Started It All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to nitpick, but wouldn't the computer with a "one" in the name be more usefully thought of as the one that started it all ?
      And that's not even getting into earlier computers that can be thought of as having started it all (EVIAC anyone?) or proto-computers .....

      It's the late '70s, which computer do you want to take home with you?

      1. the computer that'll take up your entire living room and maybe the yard too? (assuming you could actually get one of those beasts at the local shop.)
      2. The box of parts that you had to assemble. And when you finally got it all working correctly, you could finally program it by flipping little switches on the front.
      3. The motherboard that you still had to provide a keyboard and power supply for.
      4. the sleek beige box molded out of ABS plastic with the built in keyboard and was ready to do stuff as soon as you plugged it into the TV.

      ...but now the question becomes why doesn't the Commodore PET get branded as the one that started it all? Friendly looking ready to go out of the box machine that I believe predates the AppleII by at least months.

  25. ah memories, lack of up down arrows../emulators by acomj · · Score: 2, Informative

    I cut my computing teath on the apple //e. My friend
    had the ][+ with visicalc and 300 baud hayes modem.

    The visicalc spread sheet was interesting because the left-right arrows became up-down when you pressed the space bar.

    I remember
    Beagle Bros software. Apple basic. Nibble magazine. 7 color hi res graphics (2 white , 2 black, purple, blue and orange). Ultima /// one of the best games ever.

    The machine lives on in emulated form. How people got their 5.25 inch floppies into files I'll never now.

    You could set the whole screen on solid color will a call command
    if I remember correctly..

    10 hgr
    20 for i = 1 to 7
    30 hcolor =i
    40 hplot 0,0
    50 call 62454
    60 next i

    super effects!

  26. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I'm just glad there wasn't a similiar egotist running IBM at the time.

    It's my understanding that IBM is full of egotists, not just their leader.

  27. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by idobi · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Second they decided on an open architecture so that other manufacturers could produce and sell compatible machines -- the IBM PC compatibles, so the specification of the ROM BIOS was published. IBM hoped to maintain their position in the market by royalties from licensing the BIOS, and by keeping ahead of the competition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC (italics are mine)
    Of course, you neglect to read the next paragraph which explains that the "open architecture" of publishing the BIOS was designed to control the platform. By publishing the BIOS code, IBM was polluting the pool of programmers and making it difficult for any engineer that might have ever touched an IBM manual from duplicating the functions of the BIOS. IBM was not adopting an open standard - they were trying to prevent anyone from copying it BIOS. It took Compaq $1 million to clean room the bios in 1983. That is the point where the PC really begins to take off.
  28. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about them? They survived.

    What about Texas Instruments, Atari, Packard Bell... they didn't.

    What about Gateway? What about Patriot? What about any of the other random brands that tried and failed.

    That Apple has survived despite not catering to the Windows majority IS worth noting.

    The fact that they survived when dozens of their competitors are on the trash heap of history DOES NOT MEAN APPLE FAILED!!!

  29. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    TI stopped making computers, but they damn sure survived. They do CPU fab like no one's business, including taking a lot of overflow orders from Intel.

  30. Yes, it started it all. That's why they called it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the Apple II instead of the Apple I that came before it. Hey wait...

  31. What about PR#6. :-) by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Interesting commands from ages past...

    XYZZY :-)

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  32. I remember the important applications... by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

    Locksmith... Nibbles Away... Lockmaster...

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    1. Re:I remember the important applications... by acomj · · Score: 1

      I don't know what your talking about... Although dual floppies made things much easier.. wink wink, nudge nudge.

  33. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    "I'm guessing the parent was talking about NuBus and ADP, which is correct, they were not standard"

    NuBus was most certainly a standard, with an IEEE number and all. It just was more common on minicomputers than micros.

    Even ADB, Apple Desktop Bus, used to connect keyboards and mice, was adopted (sorta) by Sun for its keyboards.

  34. Re:What about PR#6. :-) by Maelikai · · Score: 1


    "plugh"

  35. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by macmurph · · Score: 1

    I remember my computer teacher telling us not to kick the legs of the table by accident, or we would interupt the Commodore PET's twenty minute boot sequence. Those audio cassettes were noticeably more unreliable than floppies or the TI-99 cartridges.

  36. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, I read it, however, I also read the "open architecture" part. Which, by the way, Apple's hardware still isn't. Care to address the issue?

  37. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    competition can be a good thing

  38. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Pope · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Once you've been here long enough, you'll notice that any attempts to correct incorrent statements about Apple gets one labelled an "apologist," whatever that means.

    Now THAT, my friend, is insecurity. :)

    Besides, the early Macs weren't really worth owning, IMHO. System 7 and the 68040 is where they really started to shine as a platform. It's too bad the management in the late 80s/early 90s were too focussed on profit margins to really compete with the x86 machines of the day.

    At the end of the day, a computer is a tool to get a job done, whether it's DNA sequence processing or running Counter Strike to blow off some steam. With Apple still in the game there remains a viable commercial competitor for Windows. Whether their machines do what you want is another matter. Mine does. :)

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  39. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you mean load sequence. the PET boot sequence was near instantaneous

  40. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by slasher999 · · Score: 1

    And if you lost the scrap of paper you wrote your directory on you had to sit there and listen to the tape to find where each program started/stopped, then load it to see what it was! Brutal.

    Oh, and I can confirm that even the cheapest cassettes (3 pack with no cases for $1.99 at K-Mart as I recall) worked fine for my needs.

    Now that I think about it though, I used the cassette method for my TI99/4a, not my Apple! By the time I got an Apple it was a IIc!

  41. The days of Apple ][e...I miss them..... by nullhero · · Score: 1

    I remember when I first got that machine of mine. I still kick myself for not keeping nor any of those precious programs I wrote. Nibble was the best (and still is the best) computer magazine ever. It gave you programs and taught you how to write programs and think.

    I remember when the MacIntosh came out...I was so jealous that I wrote a similiar desktop in assembly. How easy it was when Apple provided all the tech specs to extend your machine. I was 13 and I was and advid TV watcher of --- wait for it --- Whiz Kids!! I wanted to be the best programmer. Alas - that is no longer the case. It's no longer about the hobbyist - though I still write my own programs rather than purchase something. I want what I need. Which is what the Apple ][e gave you - the ability to create what you need.

    I miss my lil computer. At least I still have my Mac!!

    --
    Save Pangaea!! Stop Continental Drift!!
    1. Re:The days of Apple ][e...I miss them..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Nibble was the best (and still is the best) computer magazine ever.

      Paired with Softalk, you had an awesome pair.

  42. Apple kit, not Apple ][ by Halvard · · Score: 1

    first Apple II was sold on June 5, 1977

    I believe the date you mention is for the Apple that was sold as a kit. I received one of the first Apple ]['s, which came assembled and with a lot of upgrades over the kit version, through a Computerland store and was on the waiting list. It originally was to ship with 8kb or RAM but at the last minute Apple swithed them to 16kb. I believe I received mine in March/April 1978. Maybe May/June.

  43. Apple is dying! by kitzilla · · Score: 1
    ... and has been now for -- what? -- almost 30 years!

    An early happy 28th birthday, Apple II.

    --
    This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
  44. Ahem by Udo+Schmitz · · Score: 1
    "5...] 1.44 Floppy [...] started with the IBM PS/2."

    The Macintosh was introduced in 1984, the PS/2 in 1987.

    1. Re:Ahem by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Mac did not have a 1.44 floppy it orginaly had used a double sided double density drive. The 1.44 High Density disk was introduced with the PS/2

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  45. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of course, no Mac users have ever been accused of being zealots

    apologist: a person who argues to defend or justify some policy or institution
    http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?s tage=1&word=apologist

  46. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by PSargent · · Score: 1

    Considering that the Apple ][ came with full schematics, it's difficult to see how they could have been more open.

    I remember diagnosing failures on the motherboard with my father in order to fix our Apple ][ several times.

    The lack of such information was why we didn't bother with the macintosh.

  47. Re:It's tragic and bad they weren't more open. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lol ... what about them?? howabout they've all made more money selling PCs than apple ever will

  48. Memory was faster than the CPU ... by __aadkms7016 · · Score: 1

    You could do 2 DRAM accesses in the time it took for CPU clock cycle (1000 ns). Woz used this trick to do video DRAM access on one clock phase, and CPU DRAM access on the other ... oh how times have changed since 1977 in this regard.

  49. Re:What about PR#6. :-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    * 6^p^m

  50. Even more background at ITConversations by r7 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wozniak spoke extensively about this period at Apple in a great interview at Gnomedex. It's available in high quality streaming audio on ITConversations: http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail214.htm l

  51. I don't remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...does it come before or after F666G?

  52. Re:What about PR#6. :-) by frag+thief · · Score: 1

    I remember someone saying, 'Remember, PR36 wont boot a disk' and just laughing my ass off. I can't tell you how many times I typed that by mistake.

  53. Well, I tell ya'll, kids by j1sboy · · Score: 1

    hey all my old kboards broke my son has snes, nes, gba et al emulation gone thru 8 or more he is using a GX keyboard from tip found 8 years ago only thing that takes his 1 key pounding on his 5500/225 on 9.2

  54. One of the first PCs to be cloned. by Graemee · · Score: 1

    Remember the Apricot or {Insert fruit name here} which was sued because they copied the apple roms. I believe they also had a Russian clone.

    I have an old Hong Kong made II+ that someone jury-rigged the power supply to let it work with 240V. Problem is it put the 110V on the ground if you plug it into 110V. Found that out the hard way. It's otherwise identical to the II+ I have.

    I'm not sure if this cloning had the effect of making the Apple more popular, mainly because they were illegally cloned until Laser made their units.

    But I do think they were cloned before the PC.

    1. Re:One of the first PCs to be cloned. by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      http://apple2clones.com/ has a HUGE list of clones.

      Most were illegal, but some didn't even come with a ROM - you had to find a dead A2, and take it's ROM.

      Franklin's computers used their own ROM, but Apple figured out that they stole some of their code, and that's how they got sued.

      I actually had a Laser 128EX, and it was a NICE system. Some Apple software sniffed for the ROM, and if found, refused to run (Applesoft wasn't an exact copy in Laser's ROM, because then both Apple AND Microsoft would have problems with them). The only problem? QC was HORRIBLE - just by being bumped into, the speed control on the floppy drive was both thrown way out of whack and fried, making the system useless (remember, back in the day, floppy disks were the only way to go).

      The Apple //c still runs, but the keyboard had water in it, so it doesn't work right, and the FDC won't work right if a second drive is plugged in (main drive speeds up to ~154us from 201us, external drive runs continuously (but at about the correct speed)).

  55. Re:wrong on at least some details on cassette stor by iocat · · Score: 1

    The other thing about tapes in casettes was that they were way easier for home users to use than paper tapes.

    --

    Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

  56. TWO screens! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We got our //e with the original tilt-screen monitor (I think Apple later revised it with motorized controls.) So I didn't get an RF Mod until later ... when I first saw a // with a monochrome monitor and a colour TV connected to it. TWO screens! First time seeing such, I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

  57. Ye Olde Days by mholve · · Score: 0

    Everyone knows it was really the TRS-80! ;)