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What Would You Ask For in Copyright Law?

BlastM asks: "The Australian Attorney General's Department, as reported recently on Slashdot, is accepting public input in a review of fair use exceptions (or lack thereof) in our copyright laws. Being an Australian citizen, I'll be directly affected by any reforms that are made, and under the Copyright Act in it's current form it's hard to avoid breaking the law nearly every day, whether format shifting music, recording broadcast TV shows or sharing movies via P2P or with friends. The question I pose to the freethinking minds, here: What fair use rights should be defined under copyright law? Is the use of a static, defined set of rights too restrictive? What's right/wrong with the copyright laws where you live?"

86 of 659 comments (clear)

  1. 5 years by Pope+Benedict+XVI · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Copyright was originally 14 years, renewable once. But that was back before movies, radio, and TV. Typesetting was done by hand, books were distributed by horse-drawn carts. In this day and age 5 years is more than enough time to display your work and make a tidy profit.

    1. Re:5 years by Timesprout · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Would you say then then GPL should be replaced on code more than 5 years old and a do as you please license attached?

      --
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    2. Re:5 years by nizo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or how about 10 years or X millions of dollars profits, whichever comes first. That means the holder still makes a pile of money, but eventually sooner or later the work will make it into the public domain so it can be enjoyed by all.

    3. Re:5 years by Pope+Benedict+XVI · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes. After 5 years everything should revert to the public domain.

    4. Re:5 years by stecoop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is interesting. I read your post wrong the first time. I read: What if GPL Code lost its license after 5 years and you could then do whatever you want with it. Which seems only fair that it should go both ways?

    5. Re:5 years by katz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And how are you going to force it out of a company to public domain their source code? It's not a book where everything is laid out in front of you; it's a piece of compiled code.

    6. Re:5 years by Sheetrock · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I fail to see why this would be a problem. Five years is a long time in the computer industry, and both open and closed source models would benefit from having prior knowledge or code unlocked and usable to build upon.

      As things are now, we reinvent the wheel way too much because of the way Intellectual Property is implemented. It hinders progress and innovation.

      --

      Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
      -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    7. Re:5 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Simple - manadatory registration.

      If you want copyright protection on the binary, you have to reveal the source code.

    8. Re:5 years by Sheetrock · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If you expect copyright protection on binaries in a reformed copyright system you submit your source code to the Library of Congress or local equivalent.

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    9. Re:5 years by nlinecomputers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A time limit I'll except but I refuse to have some buracratic ninny tell me how much I can make. For example a million dollars isn't what it use to be. Having a set limit of cash will invite everyone to try and correct it every few years.

      If your product is so good that you make a billion, great! If you only make a $1.50 that's just too bad. The market will tell you if you made enough or not given a set time frame. The problem with Copyrights now is that we no longer have a time frame anymore. They are forever so long as they are allowed to change the laws every time Mickey Mouse comes up for release to the public domain.

      The biggest problems with our Copyright laws is that we keep changing 'em.

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    10. Re:5 years by IthnkImParanoid · · Score: 2
      10 years or X millions of dollars profits
      Then it'll always be 10 years. I mean, how many artists have gotten screwed because the RIAA *somehow* didn't make any profits on that platinum album? Better to just set a time limit. 10 years is more than enough in a society where you can ship around the world in a week.
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    11. Re:5 years by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Require it as a condition of getting a copyright to begin with.

      You can't get a patent without disclosing the workings of your invention in a manner that a person having ordinary skill in that field can understand.

      And copyright traditionally has required deposit of best copies, i.e. high quality copies placed into government libraries so that they, at least, can preserve the work and act as a seed from which more copies could later be made. (It also helped make the Library of Congress the best library in the world)

      Requiring people applying for a copyright on software to comment their code sufficiently that an ordinarily skilled programmer can understand it, and to deposit that source as well as whatever other information is needed to produce the working binaries doesn't seem like a tough thing. People still can't copy it during the term -- but they can study it to learn from it, which is a good thing in the meantime.

      It invalidates trade secrets within the work, but this is standard practice in the patent field, and it's not the end of the world.

      Plus, there's always the option for developers of not getting a copyright at all, but then they'd lack many legal protections which would probably discourage this. We might further discourage it by having the government fund projects to break DRM (which also should be prohibited as a condition of copyright).

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    12. Re:5 years by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Five years is probably too short.

      Suppose somebody self-publishes a work. It could take five years for it to get noticed. Five years is also is within the practical planning horizons of man businesses, which reduces the value of a creator's work on the market.

      I'd like to see a round twenty years from the date of initial publication. If a work does not make money within twenty years, it never will. Also the discount rate means that the income twenty plus years out has a present value, practically speaking, of nil. Further extension of the copyright does not benefit authors in a material sense.

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    13. Re:5 years by hackstraw · · Score: 3, Interesting


      The after X millions is asking for trouble. Who is to determine what a "pile of money" is? How often does that need to be updated due to inflation or in reference to the "pile of money" that was invested in said copyright?

      My thoughts on copyright are it should not be transferable. Meaning that the creator is the soul owner of the copyright, not the record company or their family hundreds of years after the original creator is dead. I also believe that it should last the lifetime of the creator, but they can waive it and put their creation into the public domain at any time.

      The only problem is that copyright could then be circumvented via patents or trademarks or some other legal tricks. Although Walt Disney is dead. Even if the copyright were to disappear for Mickey Mouse, I doubt any Mickey Mouse cartoons would be able to be in the public domain due to trademarks on the Mickey Mouse name and image, so we are still stuck.

    14. Re:5 years by nlinecomputers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I understood you the first time. I just don't agree with it. Who are you to tell the world at what point the change over occurs? Who decides this? And what method do you use to decide it?

      Is one dollar enough? A million, a billion? hmm. And what If I am in a third world nation? A million dollars is an insane amount oversees yet is a modest amount today in the US. Cash limits are pointless what if inflation happens in the third year of your copyright? What is deflation happens?

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    15. Re:5 years by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What happens if a person copyrights something that he does not have the capital to go-live in the first five years (which is a relatively short time frame)? Do they get screwed? Maybe five years in technology is a long time (i.e. Is counterstrike really gonna be that hot in five years?)....but this is a law that will affect other things such as books, music, etc.

      Why? I've been thinking 5 year terms from a more broadly defined publication, where the terms can be renewed in their last year, four times. (i.e. 25 year maximum) But no renewals for works consisting of, or to the degree that they consist of, software.

      We can optimize things for different kinds of works, you know. God knows, most of the statutory exemptions already only apply for particular kinds of subject matter already.

      What happens if a person copyrights something that he does not have the capital to go-live in the first five years

      Then I guess they won't bother. Right now the copyright system is just as uncaring towards people that need a few centuries or more. Who cares?

      We want to encourage the creation of works in order to benefit the public, and we want to get those works into the public domain as rapidly as possible, again to benefit the public.

      Whenever a work is not in the public domain, there is a cost to the public -- their liberty is restrained. This cost may be acceptable if the benefit is greater than the cost. But at a certain point, we get into the realm of diminishing returns. Eventually, the harm caused by having something copyrighted outweighs the benefit of having it exist in the first place.

      So look for how we can get the best deal for the public overall, rather than mindlessly trying to encourage creation (which, btw, doesn't keep increasing as terms do, and may even start going down, since established authors don't like competition)

      I kind of like "until the publishing author dies +10 years.

      I don't. That's too long and the length is highly unpredictable. Fixed spans are superior. And it should be the minimum length to get the greatest return in creation. Any longer is wasteful. Since virtually all profits from copyrighted works are made in the first days to months of publication, and virtually never beyond the first year, even very short terms will still result in lots of stimulus of creation. After all, that's where the money is, and copyright only deals with that one stimulus.

      If the author dies abruptly (i.e. 5 years after the copyright was made) then it is XX years for the survivors of the copyright" XX is a double digit number.

      Why do you care about them? Virtually no works have any economic value with regards to copyright anyway. Of the fraction of a percent that do, it's virtually all up front as mentioned. Only the teeniest tiniest few works have continuing value.

      For those works, the author is likely already quite wealthy (or had their chance), and could provide for their survivors. For most, a copyright won't help the survivors anyway, but still hurts the public.

      If you want to help survivors, I suggest using systems that EVERYONE can take advantage of -- life insurance, social welfare systems, etc. To even imagine copyright as a way to provide for survivors is reprehensible. You have better odds betting junior's college fund at the track!

      Some may disagree - but then again, why should *my* works be subject to *your* whims?

      Well, you have no natural right to a copyright. I OTOH have a natural right of free speech and press, encompassing repeating what you said.

      So if you want me -- by which I mean everyone else in the world (we outnumber you, n.b.) -- to be very kind and deign to give you a copyright, i.e. to voluntarily refrain from doing things we have every right to do, then you're going to make us want to do so.

      You want a copyright because you're self interested -- you want to make money from the work. Well, we don't want to give you a copyri

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    16. Re:5 years by grmoc · · Score: 2

      I do NOT like life of author duration for copyright. The purpose of copyright is to cause the creation of more content, expressly for the public good.

      The law is supposed to balance the public good with the individual good. This is the 'deal' struck with copyright-- The public benefits when works go into the public domain (they may not -ever- be put up commercially for various economic reasons) after a reasonably short amount of time (i.e. while the works are still topical), and the author is compenstated by holding a temporary monopoly on the copying of those works.

      The intent is to incent the author -just enough- to get the author to create, it is not intended to make authors rich enough that they are no longer incented to create.

      This is why *your* works should be subject to "*my*" whims-- for the public good.

    17. Re:5 years by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 2
      What happens if a person copyrights something that he does not have the capital to go-live in the first five years (which is a relatively short time frame)? Do they get screwed?

      Then they should sell it to someone who CAN bring it to the public in a timely fashion.

      If someone creates something only to sit on it for an extended period of time, then it doesn't benefit society at all. There's no point in society giving special rights to certain members if the overall effect doesn't have long-term societal benefits.

    18. Re:5 years by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is an incorrect statement of trademark law.

      Trademarks cannot be used to attain copyright-like protection. When a work enters the public domain, that work becomes a generic good. Since a mark can only be protected where it indicates the source of the good, and now anyone can be the source of this good, the mark suffers genericide.

      The Shredded Wheat case is a good example of this in the patent field (the trademark on that name died when the patent on shredded wheat expired).

      There have been some examples of this in the copyright field, and some related copyright-trademark cases such as Dastar reinforce the point.

      Mickey Mouse might remain a trademark for goods or services other than those involving creative works (see e.g. Peter Pan for buses and peanut butter doesn't affect the public domain status of the character generally) but Disney would still be pretty screwed.

      This is why they want to lengthen terms. If they didn't need to (the market for the black and white cartoon shorts of the 20's and 30's being fairly limited) they'd just rely on trademark.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    19. Re:5 years by Vaevictis666 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Why not allow each release to have its own expiry?

      If a work does not make money within twenty years, it never will.

      Set it to five years, and let's use something big for an example - say Windows 95. It was released in Aug 1995, regular support ended after 5 years, 4 months, extended lasted another year (source). I'm pretty sure the sales revenue on windows 95 was zero by august 2000, and if it were to have open-sourced itself I can't see that enabling other companies to provide better support than MS even if they wanted.

      Really, if you're serious about your software, even if it's not well-known or well-distributed, a new version every 2.5 years isn't much pressure, and ensures that the expired versions are two major versions behind you - at that point all they really do is act as a source of learning, and even perhaps a "free" enticement and/or demo.

    20. Re:5 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How exactly is the Library of Congress "the best library in the world"? Seriously - I want you to justify that claim.

      It isn't the biggest, it has 128m items, British has 150m - check the websites. Does it have the best librarians or something? Best coffee machines, perhaps?

      What makes it the best library in the world? Please reply, I genuinely want to know what makes you think that.

    21. Re:5 years by kesuki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A time limit I'll except but I refuse to have some buracratic ninny tell me how much I can make.

      Accept, you mean... Right now copyright is rediculous... the original Steamboat willy cartoon still hasn't entered the public domain, and everyone who drew so much as a part of a cel in that animation is long dead and burried.

      Because the house the mouse built refuses to allow any portion of thier works to enter the public domain there are countless productions from that era that have long since been lost. there isn't a master reel from that era that has survived intact, because the chemicals used to develop the reel work against the preservation of those works.
      Some billionaires like Ted Turner have bought up vast libraries of old master reels for movies etc, to 'preserve' them but what about the stuff that wasn't deemed 'worth the cost of restoration'?

      If copyright laws had stayed sane, digital preservation techniquies could have been done by anyone, and the resulting files could have been shared using various technologies etc. But no, congress is for sale on copyrights, so instead of material returning to the public domain, for artists who have a difficulty creating an original idea etc to use... the rights are all locked away, and the content that maybe wasn't done the best is being lost forever, and no one can try to do those old stories better...

      So unlike you I do have a problem with company x being able to make unlimited revenues, because by not putting a dollar value cap in copyright law, you invite large mega corperations to profit forever, and bribe congressmen so that they never have to deal with a 'what if' someone else could make a cartoon based on the original steamboat willie mickey mouse, and not have to pay you a cent in royalties.

    22. Re:5 years by Morlark · · Score: 3, Insightful
      " Copyright is meant to protect the rights of the author.
      Not true. Copyright was meant to reward the author for contributing something worthwhile to society, by allowing them to reap the profits from the work for a limited period. The problem arises when big businesses want to be able to reap the rewards permanently, gaining a profit far larger than the work they put in, while simultaneously denying many people something very useful.
      --
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    23. Re:5 years by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are forever so long as they are allowed to change the laws every time Mickey Mouse comes up for release to the public domain.

      And I would argue that they're "forever" so long as they're long enough that the average person will never see a copyright expire on a work that they saw created.

      Copyright terms are now so long that the average person doesn't know they do expire. Many people think that "Who own's the copyright on William Shakespeare's plays" is a sensible question. That's a very bad thing, because people who believe that copyrights are eternal are not likely to feel that copyrights provide them with much value, and are therefore not likely to feel obligated to abide by their restrictions.

      I think that if people realized that a movie that was just released would be in the public domain in 20 years, they would be more likely to understand that copyright is beneficial to the public, and should therefore be honored.

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    24. Re:5 years by Znork · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Copyright was meant to reward the author for contributing something worthwhile to society, by allowing them to reap the profits from the work for a limited period."

      I used to believe that. Then I read up on the history and found out that that belief is just the spin on the idea that the publishers used back 300 years ago when their crown monopolies names were dirt and they needed a less politically sensitive way of retaining their power. Solution; say it's really the 'authors rights', but leave the rights entirely without any protection and rely on their far more powerful economical position to force the authors to sell cheap.

      Monopoly power was what the crown used to buy them then, monopoly power is what it uses now. The problem hasnt arisen, the problem was the basic idea from the beginning.

    25. Re:5 years by baronben · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, its one of the most innovative. If you've ever been in a college library, than you've used the Congressional Catalogue System (A-Z classification), which is much better for large collections than the Dewey systems (0-999 system). Its also at the forefront of digital collections, and it ought to be, as the world's fastest growing library. That, and their reference librarians are damn good. It also has the world's largest collection of maps and sound recordings. Lets not also forget that the British Museum is fairly new, made in 1973 as compared to 1800 for the LC

      But, to answer your question, there is no 'world's best library.' It all depends on your subject and access to primary resources. If you're studying early British history, than the Library on Congress won't have a heck of a lot of original documents for you. Vice-versa for trying to study American history at the British Library.

  2. well for one... by zxnos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...if it is broadcast (tv, radio) over the airways free to the viewer, listener i should be able to do what i want with it. ie. record it, edit out commercials etc. share it with all my friends. if i am paying for the content (cable tv, xm radio) i should be able to record it and view, listen to it later.

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  3. These by 4of12 · · Score: 5, Informative

    are very reasonable starting points IMHO.

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  4. Re:The only 'fair use' by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny

    They already do that, but you don't remember it. See how effective it is? We will be there in a few minutes to wipe your brain again, so enjoy this information while you can.

  5. My $.02 by bechthros · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) faster expiration.

    2) the ability of a media consumer, having paid for a legit copy of a movie or a cd, to manipulate it in any way he/she sees fit short of redistribution for profit.

    1. Re:My $.02 by GlassHeart · · Score: 4, Interesting
      the ability of a media consumer, having paid for a legit copy of a movie or a cd, to manipulate it in any way he/she sees fit short of redistribution for profit.

      So redistribution for no profit, no matter at what scale it occurs, should be legal? What if this means that a large studio (that can afford the bandwidth) could just host a copy of any indie film so that the makers see no profit?

    2. Re:My $.02 by bechthros · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I agree, but will there be enough of such people to sustain a business model?"

      Remember when the RIAA said cassettes were going to kill vinyl, and no recording artist would ever make a penny again, and won't somebody please think of the set designers, and the sky is falling?

      I do. I remember when consumer grade tape recorders of any kind were illegal in the US, thanks to the RIAA's lobbying clout. Ever see an 8-track cartridge recorder? Ever wonder why not? And gee, in some blinding coincidence, 8-track somehow was the biggest bomb of a format the RIAA ever forced down the public's throat. Gee, I wonder why?

      Funny thing is, they wound up making a ton of money on cassettes in the 80's and 90's, just like they're going to make a ton of money off mp3's once they quit bitching about it and get with the reality of the marketplace already.

      And most of you here are too young to remember it, but in the 80's there were these things called cassette clubs. And it would consist of people signing up on a mailing list, and whenever somebody in the club bought an album, they'd dupe it for everybody else on the list, most of whom were complete strangers. So "file sharing" has been going on for about 30 years now in the music scene. Somehow music has survived. In fact, somehow music has thrived.

      So no, I'm not worried about the business model at all. I'm a musician myself, I've been chief engineer at a recording studio, I've seen all aspects of the business. And it's more than robust enough to survive a little file-sharing.

      "If so, is that enough money to encourage creativity?"

      Real creativity has nothing to do with how much money you make off it. The artists who are the most creative are usually the ones without the record deals. I think South Park summed it up perfectly - the only artists who are making such a huge deal about file sharing are the ones who suck, and need the muscle of the RIAA cartel and their price-fixing schemes in order to have even the appearance of success (which somehow never lasts more than one album).

      Creativity preceeds profit, and doesn't expect it. Creativity is it's own reward. Profit is nice, and most artists won't turn down money for their work (though some will), but no serious artist wakes up in the morning and says "today I'm gonna make a million dollars". They wake up and say "today I'm gonna make the best piece of art ever."

      "First of all, please don't drive down the street with your stereo turned up. It annoys people like me."

      I don't even have a car right now, so I think you're safe for a while...

      "Secondly, that's not the only alternative at all."

      Why not? I'm publicly broadcasting a copyrighted work whose publishing is controlled by ASCAP, SECAM, or BMI. I've seen car stereos that have larger effective broadcast ranges than some low power FM stations. Why should all those people get to hear all that music for *nothing*? Won't somebody please think of the set designers...

      "Surely we can find a compromise point between giving a copy to two friends and putting it up on a website for two million?"

      Nobody's putting them up on websites, and nobody's distributing them to two million people. You appear to have a vastly inflated sense of the P2P scene.

      The situation will be remedied, and the forces involved will come to a better balance than exists today. But the means to that end is for the RIAA to wake up one morning with the taste of its own balls in the back of it's throat, because that's where we'll have put them.

      Artists should have rights. Consumers should have rights. The single biggest impact on those rights is the RIAA. Copyright law, and frequent and outrageous changes to it, are one of their primary tools for doing so. As it stands today, the RIAA is taking money from the mouths of the artists it claims to represent, not giving them any of the money it's making from the file-sharing suits, and claiming they're the good guys. They must be, and will be, stopped, if not by the gutless Republican Congress than by the sheer force of the market.

  6. Me? by Auckerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. 15-20 year limit on all copyright
    2. All sufficient quotation to talk about a specific copyrighted material allowed.
    3. All parody allowed, even if it violates trade dress, or any other contrived notion of property
    4. Limited copying for immediate friends and family allowed
    5. No EULA's allowed (unless specifically signed by both parties, in person)
    6. You can't copyright something that is already in the public domain (silence for example), merely you're specific version of it. (Someone makes a story based of a centuries old fairy tale, you can do the same, even if they get all sorts of trademarks from it)

    You don't get 2-6 if I don't get number 1.

    --

    Burn Hollywood Burn
    1. Re:Me? by larien · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Duration of copyright is a sticky point; I do think it needs to be shorter, but Disney et al will fight tooth and nail to keep it as long as it is no matter how hypocritical it is for them (they've ripped off so many fairy tales and other stories themselves...).

      With regards to point 6; there needs to be a form of protection for those kind of things. For example, if someone makes a film of Macbeth, that interpretation is subject to copyrights, but the original work isn't and someone else can put on a play of it, make another film etc.

      Using concepts from the film version in your production is a dodgy area.

    2. Re:Me? by Auckerman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Using concepts from the film version in your production is a dodgy area.

      I'm sorry, everything in the public domain should be fair game. A film with an expired copyright falls in this category. As far as I know, there is no such thing right now. Keep in mind, up until the 20th century in the US, copyrights actually expired. This is exactly how Disney was able to get it's start. It borrowed heavily from material in the public domain, and arguable our culture has seen benifit from this. 20 years is more than fair, considering, if something makes a profit, it usually does so within a few years, usually within one.

      The problem with having no public domain and it monolopy it creates, is there is very little incentive for a creator to genuinely make something new. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Loonie Toons (old war times cartoons from these guys are some of my favorites), we have all heard of them. Used again...and again...and again. It's lame, but it's profitable. Familiarity breeds stagnation. In many ways, much of the truely creative material (which usually means higher risk) is relagated to smaller distributation channels. Meaning the majority of society will never see or hear of it. As a result, the west is slowly redefining it's "Folk culture" to a point that it has little meaning. Our society suffers from it.

      The guys who wrote the US constitution understood this, but today it's been repaced with market economics and profit. Neither of which puts societial culture and experience in very high esteem, since the "creators" of works are eternal and have, as a collective whole, any understanding of what it's means to be a human who just plays the guitar around a campfire.

      --

      Burn Hollywood Burn
    3. Re:Me? by ad0gg · · Score: 3, Insightful
      No EULA's allowed (unless specifically signed by both parties, in person)

      Congradulations you just made the GPL unenforcable. Slashbotters simply amaze me.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    4. Re:Me? by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Congradulations you just made the GPL unenforcable.

      FALSE.

      Copyright is a kind of "default" contract.
      EULAs ADD restrictons to that default contract.
      The GPL SUBTRACTS restrictions from that contract.

      Thus, at a minimum, if no EULAs are allowed, then the default contract is still in place. Thus the GPL remains JUST as enforceable as it is today, but instead of being protected by the GPL, users would be at the mercy of the copyright owner to not prosecute based on restrictions that the GPL removes.

      [i]Slashbotters simply amaze me.[/i]

      You are, apparently, easily entertained.

  7. Commercial availability? Or something? by neiffer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I always wonder why there can't be something concerning commercial availability. If software isn't sold anymore, shouldn't that modify copyright? What about when a book or CD or movie is unavailable? What about so-called abandonware?

  8. Don't stifle creativity by shanen · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Hey, that's an easy one! Copyright laws should be used to encourage creativity, not stifle it. I think the two main abuses of current copyright law are the blocking of derivative works and the extension of the term of copyright.

    In both cases, these are driven not by the creators, but by the greedy businessmen who are selling their creative works. The problem is that they are the ones who have been essentially dictating copyright law for the last 40 years or so, and their only purpose is to maximize their monopoly profits.

    Mickey Mouse should have died and been replaced a LONG time ago. Preserving the Disney franchise is *NOT* the primary goal of copyright.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  9. Already Sensible by TheRedHorse · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm probably in a minority, but I think America's Fair Use Clause is already pretty sensible, it states:

    "Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include --

    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

    (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work."

    The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

    If we'd actually enforce this doctrine and not pass things to circumvent it, like the DMCA, I think oftentimes we'd find the law on our side. How does Australian law differ from these provisions?

    I think alot of the bickering about IP rights comes from industries using money to skew the issues and interpret the law in their favor, and no strong voice stating what the law actually is or moving that it should be enforced fairly.

  10. Copyrighted works must not vanish. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My main problem with copyright in the U.S. is that it is used to basically remove works from the populace. The vast majority of works are tossed in storage after they don't become hugely successful and are never seen again and often become completely unavailable. If I were rewriting copyright laws I'd require that all copyrighted works must be available for sale at a reasonable market rate or the copyright on them expires immediately (with an exception for works still in progress or about to released) and cannot be reinstated. I'd also require that two copies of every work to be copyrighted be provided free of charge to a national archive, thus ensuring that they will not disappear. (This used to be law in the U.S. but was repealed at the same time most of the rest of our copyright laws were rewritten by lobbyists.)

    This still allows artists and publishers to make money on works, but also preserves them for the public when those companies stop offering them.

  11. If I got to rewrite it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It'd be 5 years inherant at the time of creation. Registration isn't necessary, but you'd want some way to prove date of creation and ownership, so a good idea. During this time you'd have exclusive and total control. Now after 5 years you'd have three choices:

    1) Do nothing and allow it to fall in to public domain.

    2) Reregister for an additonal 5 years under the same terms.

    3) Reregister for 25 years, but under different terms that included compulsory licensing for derivitive works with reasonable and non-discriminitory fees.

    This would ensure that the ability to make money is there, but that the public gets the work in a timely fashion. If you creat it and just abandon it, the public gets it in 5 years. If after 5 years you still find you are cashing in, you can have another 5 to continue to do so. A decade is more than enough to cash in on a work. However if you find that you aren't selling a lot, but there's interest from others in licensing it, you can get a quater century where you are gaurenteed royalties for any derivitives.

    I'd also mandidate fair use clauses making illegal to implement any technology that interferes with fair use. You are free to work out a copyprotection, if you like, however it must be one such that all fair use rights are protected.

    However, that's a pipe dream and I know it.

  12. Reflection of Society by Tiresias_Mons · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd say really, short of changing the mindset of the society in which we live, there's nothing that really "should" be changed about copyright. I mean really, if you think about it, people need to make money to live, therefore they "should" fight to the death to protect anything they have that is worth "money". Why shouldn't Disney have exclusive right to make money off of Mickey Mouse indefinitely (ok so maybe that would be a change from current law, since they can't do that now)? Why shouldn't the RIAA try and defend the music it pumps out for profit (assuming it does it legally, not through abusing the legal system, that's another can of worms)?

    I'd say that all in all, copyright law for our time and place is relatively good in concept. The biggest problem, and something that I would make clear, is that the limits of that copyright need to be clearly defined. I think the problems that arise from copyright law these days tends to come from both sides bending the rules and trying to exploit the system.

    Unfortunately, until we evolve past a state of fighting for "money" to "survive" we are still going to have to face issues of how much "money" our ideas are "worth". I'm all for stopping people from ripping off other's ideas, which copyright law does "in theory" but unfortunately the limits haven't been well defined and thus are being exploited.

    Now Patent Law, on the other hand, needs some serious readjustment, but that, again, is another can of worms.

    --
    "But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong" - Dennis Miller
    1. Re:Reflection of Society by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd say really, short of changing the mindset of the society in which we live, there's nothing that really "should" be changed about copyright.

      Lets see the vast majority of books, music, movies, video games, and TV shows published from 1976-2000 are completely unavailable to anyone. So it is illegal for me to make a copy of a very rare book, and entirely possible no other copies exist. That means it is erased from the public consciousness. And you think there is nothing wrong with copyright? You're very, very, very wrong.

  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. A Filmmaker's Perspective by robyannetta · · Score: 2, Informative
    I say dump all current Copyright laws and move to the Creative Commons model.

    This allows the artist the opportunity to choose what licence the work will be distributed in.

    All licences are free for personal use. Restrictions can be added for commercial use, sampling and other derivatives.

    I personally use Creative Commons for my releases.

    --
    - Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
  15. Easy to enter public domain by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Informative

    Copyrights last 10 years, but with unlimited free 10 year extensions during the life of the author. If he or she doesn't care to apply for an extension, the work enters the public domain. Works for hire and transferred works have a 50 year limit.

  16. By application only by PMuse · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1. Copyright must be applied for. If copyright is not applied for within 1 year of publication, the work is public domain.

    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  17. Abandonware and orphaned works by raygundan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To get a copyright for a work, you should have to register a highest-possible-quality unencrypted digital copy of the work with the copyright office.

    At a minimum, this guarantees that works don't vanish from existence before their copyright expires, denying the public domain their content.

    Additionally, you could add criteria to address abandonware-- if a work is not produced or sold for a period of 10 years, it becomes available from the copyright office for a small copying fee, and has becomes part of the public domain.

    Alternatively, this could act as a form of "mandatory licensing," where you can purchase the work for a nominal fee from the copyright office, and the proceeds are split between the office (for maintaining this library of works) and the copyright holder. This way, even people who are no longer able to sell their works could make a modest sum from the sale until the copyright expires, and people would have access to works that would have otherwise disappeared.

  18. Education by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd ask for unrestricted use for education. Specifically state-funded education at the k-12 level. One of the stipulations should be that the copyright holder/publisher should provide, at cost, a copy of material for each student that needs the material.

    As much as I loved books like Tom Sawyer, I hated having to pay for them out of pocket.

    And I know something has been written in the last 100 years that students SHOULD be reading, but can't because of copyright.

    This should include music (sheet for the band members and performances for appretiation classes), movies, books, software, etc. Basicly anything that can be copyrighted should be avalible at no cost to students.

    There would be an exception for books written specifically to be used as textbooks.

    --
    I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
  19. the right question? by ecklesweb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Should we be asking what specific rights we'll give the consumer, or should we be asking what specific rights we'll give the content owner? I would suggest the latter. The US Constitution, for example, takes that tack; all powers not explicitly reserved for the federal government are implicitly remanded to the states. I'd like to see the same thing in copyright law so we don't have to go change the law everytime someone thinks of something new to do with content - any rights not explicitly reserved for the content owner are implicitly remanded to the consumer.

  20. No extensions by PMuse · · Score: 3, Insightful

    2. The duration of copyright on a work is set at the time it is first published. It may not be later extended.

    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    1. Re:No extensions by EpsCylonB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed.

      Though as a compromise I would propose an intellectual property tax in return for shorter (than current) copyright durations. If the tax isn't paid then the work enters the public domain from where it can't be retrieved.

      The deal is copyright protection for any published work and lasts a maximum of 25 years from the date of publication. If an individual or business entity wishes to hold on to the copyright after that period then they have to pay a yearly tax for that privilege.

      People don't realise that they are getting ripped off at the moement. Copyright exists so that those who make cultural contributions are given an incentive to carry on making contributions for the good of soceity. If you haven't made any money out of your work in 25 years then you don't deserve the copyright protection afforded to you by the government any more. If you are making money then you can afford to pay the government to protect the copyright for you. Why is the taxpayer currently helping to pay to help protect old copyrighted works that generate their owners millions ?. How is soceity benefiting from Disney making money off flims that are more than 80 years old ?.

      Disney are of course the ultimate hypocrites having founded their company on the works of classic fairtales. Imagine if the todays copyright laws applied 100 years ago. Its strange that copyright is being extended in america since copyright that never expires is anti capitalist.

      This compromise would allow profitable copyrights to be held (for example the beatles back catalogue) whilst the vast majority of work would enter the public domain. This might keep Disney happy although they would obviously prefer there current plan, copyright which never expires.

      The danger of current copyright laws is that in 400 years time any current work would still be under copyright. Imagine if schools had to pay everytime they put on the future equivalent of todays shakespeare's plays. That is where we are heading now.

  21. Non-profit uses are fair by PMuse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    3. All copying of a work is permitted so long as absolutely no money is made as a result of it (including ad revenue).

    (C'mon, this is what we really want, right?)

    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    1. Re:Non-profit uses are fair by Stonehand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not really.

      This would let somebody sabotage somebody else's market for a copyrighted work by selling at cost. You might see a publishing house retalliating against another publisher's star author (which refused a deal with the first one) by simply distributing that star's works online for no cost. Want to hurt Adobe? Put every version of Photoshop online for free. You'd force the entire creative market to shift to service contracts -- and in some cases, such as just about anything creative except software, this just doesn't make much sense.

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
  22. Repeal Derivative Works by PMuse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    4. The notion of "derivative works" is abolished. Only copying is prohibited. New creations are OK.

    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  23. Fixing Copyright by GrouchoMarx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Last year, a group of graduate students (myself being one of them) asked that exact question and came up with their (our) suggested answer. Link below. It's under a CC license. It's US-centric, but feel free to forward to any Australian (or anywhere else) leaders you feel it would positively impact. :-)

    http://www.garfieldtech.com/copyright/

    --

    --GrouchoMarx
    Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?

  24. Ideally? by Mojofreem · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've always felt that a balance should be in place, but weighted more towards the interests of citizens/society than corporations. I'd like to see the following implemented:

    Ten year copyright to the original author. The original author is defined as the single "person" or "group of people" who actually wrote/crafted/composed the work in question. Corporations and companies do not qualify as an original author.

    The original author may transfer ownership of the work to another entity. Corporations and companies may qualify. This entity is considered the copyright holder, but is NOT considered as the original author.

    If the original author still holds ownership of the copyright after the end of the original 10 year term, they may choose to extend it for 1 additional ten year term. The original author must explicitly seek the extension. By default, the work would fall into the public domain. If the original author is no longer the owner of the copyright, or has not maintained sole and exclusive ownership of the copyright for the entire original copyright period, then the copyright cannot be extended. No matter what occurs, all copyrights revert to the public domain after no more than 20 years maximum.

    I believe such an arrangement allows plenty of time for an artist/author/composer to profit from their work, while protecting the publics interest of extending the public domain. It would also greatly curtail corporate hoarding of cultural works.

    As far as fair use goes, I believe it's time to stop treating citizens as criminals by default. Time shifting, format conversion, and sampling should be completely unencumbered.

    As far as the work as a whole is concerned, illegal redistribution should remain so. However, no government should attempt half-assed means to restrict technology with the short sighted goals of protecting copyright holders. Prosecute and punish the violators, not society as a whole.

    Just my $0.02

  25. Re:Less of it! by jc42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Everything was fine pre-DMCA.

    Not really. The famous Girl-Scout case was years before the DMCA was passed. This was the case in which the Scouts were sued for permitting their members to sing copyrighted songs around a campfire. And note that all the negative publicity didn't work in this case. The Girl Scouts are paying an annual fee for the right to sing around their campfires.

    Then there are the explanations of how it comes to be that Happy Birthday is still under copyright, although it was written in the 1880's. The current owner gets several million US dollars per year for permissions to sing the song.

    None of this is the fault of the DMCA.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  26. First Sale is Final by PMuse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    7. Anything you do to a legally acquired copy of a work is OK (e.g. stripping the protection, backing up, resequencing a DVD to remove parts you don't like), but making more copies is not.

    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  27. Re:I'll second that. by grmoc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    License it. You retain copyright, they get to exercize it, and the duration is still the same.

    I'm not arguing for either side here, just playing devil's advocate.

  28. Mandatory Source code release. by composer777 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When a copyright term ends, the author should take reasonable measures to make sure that the work enters the public domain. With books, that work automatically enters the public domain, but with closed source software, the source code remains secret. This undermines the original spirit of copyright, which was to provide government protection (funded by public funds) in exchange for the eventual benefit of the public by adding to the body of works in the public domain. With software, this model is severely broken as copyright owners have done nothing to contribute to the public domain (by the time the copyright expires the platform is usually long gone, and source code is required for porting). If anything, they have tried their best to ensure that they give nothing back.

    1. Re:Mandatory Source code release. by jc42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There have been a number of suggestions that copyright should expire when the protected work has been unavailable from the owner for a fixed period, typically 1 year.

      This would protect works that are still generating income for the owner, while preventing the problem of having all our culture locked up in vaults forever, unavailable to anyone.

      This has particularly been suggested for software, but usually with the concept of "support" thrown in. Imagine if, when a company's CS people told you that their product X is no longer supported, you could simply demand that they email you the source code, since their lack of support means that it's now public domain.

      Not likely to happen, though. This would undercut a major business model of much of the software industry, based on forcing you to "upgrade" to a new! improved! product.

      But it's fun to think of a society in which we could demand that the RIAA and MPAA companies hand over all those early works that they have locked up in their vaults, unavailable to anyone.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  29. Copywrite Ownership by guard952 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How about: Copywrite ownership ALWAYS remains with the original author. Also meaning you cannot copywrite Public Domain. Copywrite lasts for up to 25 years, or when the author dies. Copywrited works can be used in any manner other than re-distributing in whole or in part without the author's explicit consent. I'm an Aussie too! Let's get something that works.

  30. Revising a work makes the original public domain by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So that if you were to "redo" Star Wars and "add" things to it, the original work would become free.

    Thus if it wasn't an improvement, most people wouldn't "redo" things to extend and expand their copyrights, because they would have a disincentive to do so.

    However, adding extra footage would not invalidate the original, but wouldn't extend the copyright either. So you could do a director's cut.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  31. Copyright for the lifetime for the creator, period by nunchux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I work in animation, and though I'm not a creative genius myself (and will never create an original property) I've known quite a few people who are, some who've made it big, others who've fallen by the wayside.

    I see a lot of people in this discussion throw out "5 years from date of creation" and similar time frames. I find that to be ridiculous. It could take five, ten, fifteen years or even longer for a creative type to find success. Someone could write a book or song in their twenties, release it in relative obscurity and then find success with the next generation (or two generations later, it happens.) Why shouldn't they be entitled to reap the rewards?

    Look, if you create something, a property, a song, a character, whatever, it should be YOURS. As long as you are alive. This isn't patent law, where an invention and variations of the technology could be good for society. Nobody needs Mickey Mouse, it doesn't benefit the world for "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" to be free for everyone to use, and Steven King should be always be the first to profit when an edition of "Christine" is published. This has nothing to do with digital rights, Bittorent and all that... It has to do with who owns the rights and says what can be done with his or her intellectual property.

    Of course, many if not most properties are in the hands of corporations, and I would suggest that copyright law be changed so that only individuals, not companies can own a copyright-- otherwise it's "leased" for a specific period of time (and here is where the five years figure could come in.) After which, the creator can renegotiate for a fair value or take it back. No more cases of Marvel screwing Kirby or Nickelodeon dumping Kricfalusi from his own show.

    I would further suggest that copyrights cannot be owned by an estate. Public domain happens when the artist dies, period-- and then the work is released to the ages to be remembered or forgotten. Anyway, wives, children and grandchildren are notorious for "selling out", caring more for cash than any integrity.

  32. Re:What would I ask for by loqi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would ask for very strong copyright laws and abolishment of patents.

    The long-term influence of patent removal would quite likely be to slow technological growth within the country in question. High-cost, high-risk speculative R&D is only commercially driven through patents. We simply need more practical research input than academia will provide us with.

    --
    If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
  33. Shelter from punitive damages by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would like to see protection for new business models to fund creative works. More specifically, I would like to see a safe-harbor for copyright violations of works incorporated into works released into the public domain and for the more free versions of the creative commons license. Any damages awarded for such a case would be limited to no more than the net revenue generated by the work.

    This would allow a business to form enabling a work-for-hire model without fear that an accidental inclusion of an "old-style" copyrighted work would destroy the business.

    For example, you record a song and it happens to include a bass-line that has been copyrighted by some music label 20 years ago. Studio time, etc costs you $600 to get the recording mixed and ready for production qualit release. You charge $1000 to release it to the public domain - 500 fans each pay $2 and so you relase it. Said big music label decides to file suit for copyright infringement, the most they can get are two things:

    1) Song is "withdrawn" from the public domain.
    2) $600 in damages because that was net revenue generated by the sale

    This avoids the ability of the sudio to sue for $150,000 or so for every copy of the song ever made which is about what the current (USA) copyright laws allow for. $150,000 x millions of downloads would totally bankrupt any business.

    So, if alternate business models are going to get off the ground, they need to be protected from legal attacks designed more to protect the current business model than to protect the artist. Changes to the law should enable creativity in art and in business, not fight it.

  34. Re:Copywrite Ownership - for who? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does that mean that corporations aren't considered people for copyright? And can't "buy" copyrights, only "lease" them?

    OK.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  35. The longer view by loqi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For those considering "life of the author" as a factor in copyright law, it may be interesting to consider how that may change if human lifespans are radically extended. Do we want to allow for copyright periods measured by the millenia?

    --
    If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
  36. While I might like... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...to redo the entire copyright system, I would rather present suggestions within the current system, to halt a disturbing trend:

    1. It should be illegal for any copyright protection scheme to enforce restrictions on non-reproductive use.

    Examples:
    Fast forward disabled, protected by CSS: Illegal
    Fast forward in an "open" bit: Legal.
    Region restrictions, protected by CSS: Illegal
    Region restrictions in an "open" bit: Legal.

    2. Copyright must be granted under the Berne convention. But protection of a copyright protection scheme is only granted on the condition that decryption keys are placed in escrow with the government, to be released into the public domain at the same time as copyright expires. If this key is protecting several works, it will be released when the first work enters the public domain.

    Example:
    [Movie company] releases a DVD. The symmetric key is placed in escrow with the government. When the copyright expires, that specific key is released.

    [Music company] releases a compilation CD with a single key. When the first track enters public domain, the key is released (which would quickly lead to a system where each object is protected by its own key).

    The public/private key pair in CD/DVD/TV players are never released, only the specific instances of keys.

    3. All DRM systems which have the characteristics of a sale must allow resale under the first sale doctrine free of any comission, even if a license can not be reliably revoked (i.e. the buyer gets his copy, the seller keeps his). However, after invoking this the old original is considered an illegal copy, subject to relevant copyright law.

    4. If the work is protected by a DRM system, the company must provide replacements at cost. Proof of ownership may be either damaged media, or reciept if the content is uniquely tied to the user. (As medialess content is).

    Example:
    DVD broken: Replacement.
    iTMS tunes lost in disk crash: Replacement
    DVD gets stolen: Car/home insurance case. Too easy to commit fraud otherwise.

    These are areas where DRM is threatening to undermine basic consumer rights. While this is not nearly enough, I fear it will be hard enough to save even this much.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:While I might like... by mobby_6kl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Instead of telling everyone how they can publish/distribute their stuff, it could instead be made legal to crack their encryption.

  37. No problem with copyright law... by Eric+Damron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is not with copyright law. The problem is with our Congress. They get campaign finance money from the movie and record industries. So to ensure that the money keeps flowing in they whore themselves by passing legislation to extend copyright length. Our constitution prohibits an infinite time period for copyright. So instead of making it forever which would be unconstitutional they just keep extending it. I say they should put it back to fourteen years as it was intended or stop pretending that they care about enriching our culture and just make the length twenty-five billion years and be done with it. F**king whores.

    --
    The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
  38. Copyright registration and statutory damages by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Something doesn't actually have to be registered to be copyrighted.

    In the United States, you already have to register a copyright before you use it to sue someone, and you already have to register before infringement in order to collect (ridiculous) statutory damages and (less ridiculous) attorney's fees unless the alleged infringement occurred within three months of first publication.

  39. Copyright Suggestion by kenp2002 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Expires when the last author (if a group project) dies.

    That's all.
    No extensions for the company.
    No extensions for the family.

    5 guys develop it, last guy of the 5 dies. Public domain. Period.

    I bet you company health care programs will improve.

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
  40. Bad idea by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So if I change the least significant bit in one sample on a video/audio recording, is it a new work? Derivative works specificly deal with the problem "When is this new?" Maybe you want to redefine it somewhat, but I think your idea might get messier than the current one.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  41. Read Lessig's book by emarkp · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Everytime I talk about this kind of thing, I say "what Lessig said." Read Free Culture by Lawrence Lessig.

    One great idea he suggests is to have an online registration that costs (say) $1 per year to register, with a maximum life of (IIRC) 50 years. If the copyright owner doesn't register it every year, it's in the public domain. If it's not worth $1 to register, then it shouldn't be copyrighted anyway.

  42. Copyrights are an ALL or NOTHING game by argoff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although when I'm feeling idealistic I like to declare that all copyright laws should be thrown out, I'm willing to take the pragmatic approach.

    I think the problem here is that the "pragmatic" approach here has already been tried 200 years ago, and it failed miserably just as society hit the information age. And that makes allot of sense. You can't go telling people that they have this "moral right" to restrict what people copy, and then expect them not to try and secure this "right" by using every resource they can to push it to the extremes.

    With regular physical property, you have natural limiting factors that limit those extremes, with copyrights you don't because they are not a natural law creation. Copyrights are simply people coercing limits on things that have no natural limit for the sake of greed and monopoly.

    If someone said "lets limit food to the 3rd world more than it already is because we want to get more profit" most people would see this as the pure evil that it is. But when they do the same thing with the worlds information, then oh my God - it's a RIGHT!?

    1. Re:Copyrights are an ALL or NOTHING game by servognome · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think the problem here is that the "pragmatic" approach here has already been tried 200 years ago, and it failed miserably just as society hit the information age.

      We probably wouldn't be in the information age yet without IP protection. Throw out Patents, Trademarks, and Copyright and you enter a very slow moving generic world. The implementation of the current system is too restrictive, but you don't have to scrap it completely.

      If someone said "lets limit food to the 3rd world more than it already is because we want to get more profit"

      IP protections were never meant to ensure profits, it was to encourage development by offering a chance at profit. Realizing that creating an idea is not free, but the distribution is; IP protections were created so you can get a chance at getting a return on your investment of time, money, and effort.

      The advantage of IP protection is it encourages people to specialize and take risks in the area of information. In the case of specialization, instead of spending 40 hours a week working and 20 hours on their intellectual hobby, they can devote all their time as a professional programmer, songwriter, inventor. People have more time to hone their skill, and more time to create new ideas. On the risk taking side, it allows movie studios to invest $100 million dollars on a movie, or companies to spend $2 billion on R&D because there is a chance to have and edge on the competition and get a good return on those investments. The quality and pace of innovation is increased.

      Like you said the current approach was developed 200 years ago. The pace of change and communication has increased, the time to product realization and distribution has decreased. We should be taking a fresh look, but not abandon something that has worked well.

      Right now the law is too far on the protectionist side of things. It's a balancing game, if IP laws are too restrictive innovation is stifled by lawsuits, not restrictive enough and innovation is stifled by lack of resources.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  43. Melancholy Elephants by tanj_tanstaafl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Which is a short story by Spider Robinson. http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___ 1.htm It addresses the issue of what will happen to the artists do when there is nothing new to discover.

  44. It doesn't take the investment into account by mconeone · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What if a company spends millions upon millions hiring, training, and supporting a huge staff to just pump the product out in the first place? A set profit limit is very good for a single programmer, and very bad for a huge team.

  45. Acknowledge doctrine of first sale and private use by NZheretic · · Score: 3, Informative
    When You Purchase An Instance Of Something, You Own That Instance. When I purchase a car, I own that car. I have the right to that particular instance of that car to use,modify ( pimp my ride ),combine, dispose or resell without having to seek permission from the car builders, vendors etc. Therefore is the following is self evident:

    1) Acknowledge the supremacy of the doctrine of first sale : When you purchase an instance of a copy of copyrighted work, your rights to view,use,modify,combine,interoperate with, dispose or resell that one instance are not impeded by either legislation or technology. This fact has been recognized time and again by the US courts.

    2) The doctrine of first sale applies to both physical media and digital content where the receiver pays a transaction for an instance of a copyrighted work: When you purchase an instance of a copy of copyrighted work that involves the buyer making a choice for that instance of copyrighted work and entering into a transaction with the seller, then the buyer has the rights to that instance under the doctrine of first sale. Sellers of instances of copyrighted work cannot hide behind provision as a service, when you pay for an instance, you own that instance.

    3) You do not have the right to record content without permission of the copyright holders of a live performance ( play, concert etc ) or private performance ( Film theater ) on private property or venue. You pay to attend a performance at a physical venue, not for a copy of an instance of that performance.

    4) Broadcasted ( as apposed to downloaded ) copyrighted works as content received into a household or to device held by individual person or on that persons property, may not be redistributed outside of that person's household to anyone who does not receive the content though the same service. You may record a instance of copyrighted work for later viewing ( timeshifting ) and distribute a copy along to any person whos household also receives that same broadcast service ( Samaritan clause ). You many not redistribute or resell content recorded from a broadcast service to anyone not receiving that same broadcast service content.

    5) Although you may not redistibute recorded copies of broadcasted copyrighted content outside of the terms of (4), there should be no limit to what you may do with instances of those works within your household. You should have the right to modify the works, combine with other works and interoperate with other works.

    6) Copyright protection extends only to the particular work copyrighted. The Copyright holder's exclusive rights should not extend to the right to deny other combining an instance of copyright holder work with other works. You should have the right to distribute and/or sell, patches, recipes and addon components that refer and link to the content of the copyrighted work, but do not contain content from the original copyrighted work. The resulting combined and/or transformed work that contains content from the copyrighted work sources can not be legally redistributed without the permission of all the copyright holders.

  46. From the other side of the spectrum. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As a person who relies on copyright to put food on the table, essentially as a creative producer of content, I have a different take on this issue. Thus far, I've seen some ridiculous suggestions for copyright law that could only be written by what is commonly known as "leechers" who would only support free (as in beer) stuff. Yes, this is probably flaimbait, but it angers me when people who know nothing about the purpose of copyright (both socially and personally) start spewing out their crap about how everything should be free and in the public domain. I did read a few good comments, but those were the minority when I began this.

    What we produce on our time is our work. We have the right to do with it as we see fit. This is implied in any society, except for a communist or totalitarian one, where what we produce is a product of the state, whether in principle or by force, respectively. Copyright laws exist to clearly define the boundaries of this right that is as unalienable as life and liberty.

    Just to give an example that is close to home for most people, this concept is especially important for the FOSS movement. Without the proper copyright protections, something like the GPL and its derivatives could not exist. Remember that the GPL is viral--works that include GPL'ed material must also be GPL'ed. With very weak copyright, anybody, including major companies, could copy code line-for-line that a programmer writes under the GPL, without paying the requested price of making the copy GPL'ed, or even crediting the original programmer.

    So don't bash copyright. It's your friend. It's your right. It's your choice.

    Disclaimer: I have my own biases and my own views on the whole thing, and these changes to copyright law are as much a product of my logical thinking as those biases. Also, IANAL, so I might just be restating something already in copyright law that I don't know about or I have never before seen interpreted in this manner.

    That having been said, there are revisions I would like to see to existing copyright laws. They are:

    1) Allow jointly independent copyrights. This is somewhat already present, as the owner of something like an mp3 would include the renderer and the owners of the individual parts. However, jointly independent copyrights are such that if there is more than one producer or creator of one work, both would have the copyrights to the work. So if Yao Ming and Shaq decide to sing a duet, both would be able to sell and distribute their rendition independently, or jointly.

    2) Allow copyrights to be transfered postmortem. Inheritance, essentially, but with one catch: The transfer must be explicitly stated in the copyright owner's will, or the work would immediately go into the public domain.

    3) Make copyright violations a criminal offense (something already done in many places), but prohobit civil suits at the same time. Copyright violators should be prosecuted as criminals, where defendents would be provided legal council. Any and all reparations would be determined by a judge, not by the plaintiff. Basically, no frivilous lawsuits and intimidation tactics.

    4) Prohibit non-producers (middlemen) from claiming exclusivity to any part of the copyright. But with the internet, the need for such middlemen has been drastically reduced. What constitutes non-producers are entities or persons who did not participate, in part or in full, financially or creatively, in the original production of the work. Furthermore, prohibit the transfer of copyright with the exception of the case described in 1).

    Of course, Fair Use is a completely different beast to tackle. The changes to Fair Use I'd like to see are:

    1) Unconditionally allow the replication of copyright works only when the person performing the replication does not gain financially or otherwise through the work's replication, whether directly or indirectly, and only when the replication is perceived as perfect. In this case, a lack of a loss does not necessarily imply a gain.

  47. It seems so goddamn simple... by Vegeta99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You made it, it's yours. Upon your death, your right to your works CEASES. YOU'RE FUCKING DEAD. Maybe it shouldn't even last that long, but from creation to death of creator seems fair.

    People sharing music P2P for FREE should be legal. Nobody's making money off of your works, INCLUDING YOU. Probably because YOU SUCK THE BIG ONE at marketing.

    I should have every right to do whatever I want with any signal that enters my home. IE, if Hughes insists on radiating my brain with their digital television signal, then I insist on decoding it and using it as I see fit. What if tomorrow, I fall on a pile of radioactive waste, and can suddenly decode the signal in my head? Are you gonna chop it off and use it as evidence against me in a DMCA Act lawsuit? IF YOU DON'T WANT ME TO TIME SHIFT OR FORMAT SHIFT OR SHARE OR EVEN SELL YOUR CONTENT, DO NOT SEND IT OVER PUBLIC AIRWAVES. If I threw a giant wad of cash at you, I'm sure you'd be much obliged to take it. So don't throw your EMR at me, because I'm going to do the same.

    Musicians? I will pay to see you in person. I will pay a very small fee to cover your costs for the media and recording of your music. If you want me to give you a glamorous lifestyle because you can play repetitive, shitty music, FUCK YOU. I will NOT be poor so you can drive a fucking Porsche. It is ART, a PASSION, not a FUCKING CAREER.

    I'm 18, and a student. For a living, I clean floors. The only laws that protect my living protect yours too. When I get a contract, it isn't for life. It's until I FUCK UP. I don't need no fucking laws to protect my livelihood, so you pussies shouldn't either. Metallica, BURN IN HELL. Unless you would enjoy that, that is, if that is the case, may fluffy white bunnies rape you all day long.

  48. What Would I Ask For? by LuYu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I will start with the questions in the article and then continue with some other additions:

    What fair use rights should be defined under copyright law? Is the use of a static, defined set of rights too restrictive?

    Your question points out a very obvious problem: every time rights are defined, they are restricted. The Founding Fathers, the authors of the US Constitiution, probably would have found the idea of locking up a book ludicrous, but today we have DRM where publishers have fine tuned control of how we, the owners, use our own books. I am pretty certain the Right of Access would have been assumed by the Founding Fathers. Now that it cannot be assumed, many people claim it is not a right.

    Having said that, if you are going to create enumerated rights, they should be as broad as possible. Things like: You may do anything with the copyrighted material except sell it for such and such a term.

    The entire idea of derivative works should be eliminated. If I translate a book, that is a new book. If I want to make a better Star Wars, let the public choose whether or not I have beaten Lucas at his own game. If I want to annotate or critisize a book that I agree or disagree with, I should be able to. And I should be able to sell that book with same protections as the original author got even if it contains the bulk or the entirety of the original text.

    What's right/wrong with the copyright laws where you live?

    Where I currently live, the Republic of China, copyright is imposed by another culture. Europe is taking its ideas of censorship and exporting them to the rest of the world. These information control laws have been imposed on every Asian country, and the US government is constantly putting pressure on the ROC government to extend and enhance enforcement of these foreign (barbaric?) copyright laws. The USA is even a victim of this exportation of European feudalism. The 1976 Copyright Act imposed the "moral rights" provisions of the Berne Convention which altered the entire face of copyright. It increased copyright terms, added derivative works, and made copyright automatic. The last addition, when applied to the Internet makes copyright an enemy of free speech.

    China has a long history of annotation going back thousands of years. Many editions of books have extensive and very useful commentary added by subsequent authors all throughout Chinese history. While the original author's words were often preserved, other educated people were able to contribute to their works without fear of any sort of punishment. Chinese society for centuries was the most educated society on earth for precisely this reason.

    This was the first society to have paper and printing, and the prices of books here have always been lower. People here read way more than people in the West. Text is such a part of life that it is impossible to watch a movie without subtitles. In the USA, people complain if the movie has subtitles because "It's too much work". This is in large part a result of the lack of restrictions with respect to the exchange of information here.

    The cost of information access in the West is staggering. The best example of this is college text book "business". Ten years ago, some books cost up to US$80. They were updated -- rarely noticably -- every two years or so. Often, a student could not sell the book back because the new edition was out. By contrast, when I studied in Taiwan, I never paid more than about US$8 for a book. In addition to that, the language books were better than any language book I ever had for any Western language I ever studied.

    Another good example is Joseph Needham's Science and Civilization in China. In the USA, each volume is about US$120. In the ROC, each volume is around US$30. It is exactly the same book. Here, I can afford it, in the USA, I cannot.

    Copyright, in this case, se

    --
    All data is speech. All speech is Free.