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Microsoft Under Attack - Part 2

bugbeak writes "Part 2 of BBC's report on Microsoft at its 'most vulnerable moment in history' is available. According to the article, there are six battles Microsoft must go through in order to stay afloat and win, ranging from 'sort out security' (#1) to 'get them young' (#3). The first part of the article series was also linked by Slashdot." From the article: "Already Microsoft is spending 30% to 35% of its research and development budget on security issues, [Gates] says. His promise: Longhorn, the next version of the Windows operating system, will make malicious software (malware) that gets onto computers without the users' knowledge 'a thing of the past'."

30 of 472 comments (clear)

  1. Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. by ats-tech · · Score: 5, Funny

    What an oportune moment for that message.

    1. Re:Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. by toddbu · · Score: 5, Insightful
      But maybe not for the reason that you think. I hear a lot of comments about how bad Microsoft software is, or how expensive it is, or how many security flaws it has. But if you read the article carefully, it's the concept of "convergence" that's really at the heart of Microsoft's problems.

      Convergence isn't new to Microsoft at all. It's how they've conducted business all along. The reason that Microsoft has succeeded all these years is that they brought something to that marketplace that it really wanted - ease of use. Everything was integrated together in one clean way. Windows was "great", but what really made Microsoft great was OLE and COM and XML. Hook stuff together and make it work and people will pay big bucks. You may not agree, but the marketplace doesn't want to have to think about which UI they want to install or whether it will work with every application. Most people just want stuff to work. (Yeah, I know, this is /. and that we love to build things, but let's face it, we're not "the norm".)

      So what's the future of integration? Well, I'd say that unlike Microsoft's vision of throwing everything into one box, we're going to see a pattern of "divergence" away from all-in-one devices. The pattern of convergence has been seen before, like the all-in-one VCR/TV or all-in-one entertainment centers, that have had limited success. If my Windows Media Center PC dies, do I really want to lose my ability to surf the web, play games, pay my bills, and do my homework all at the same time?

      What Microsoft is missing is that the integration point isn't in a single box, but in a single network. Bill has already admitted to missing the Internet in 1995, and that's because in his world we bring everything to one place and control it there. But the reality of the situation is that different devices serve different functions for a reason. Sure I can build a PC that does everything, but is that what I really want? Or do I just want to have my different devices talk to each other (and my friend's devices) and share information? Not that I necessarily want to live in the Java world where my toaster tells my fridge that it's toasting the last slice of bread and to order more, but it sure would be nice if I could do something as simple as have my phone exchange contact information with my PC on my desk without having to dock it. That's a far cry from the Microsoft world where I hold my PC to my head to make a phone call because I have to store all my data in one place. At least then I can get more than 30 minutes of talk time on my phone because the CPU isn't sucking up power yet adding no value to the call in progress.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
  2. heh by Paris+The+Pirate · · Score: 4, Funny
    'get them young' (#3).



    Just like the tabacco industry!

    1. Re:heh by QMO · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Clothing and toy manufacturers have managed to get their customers to be brand concious by age 2.

      (Thanks Barney, Elmo)

      --
      Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
    2. Re:heh by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 4, Funny


      Just like a drug dealer:

      Step 1: Here, try this free Windows you got with your new computer!

      Step 2: Here, make all your applications with Access databases and Excel spreadsheets and ActiveX and COM+! Feels GOOD, doesn't it?

      Step 3: Here it will only cost you X dollars to upgrade to this better grade of drug^H^H^H^HWindows!

      Step 4: Profit!

      Step 5: Monopoly profit!

      Step 6: Shoot competing drug^H^H^H^Hsoftware dealers.

      Step 7: Arrest, conviction of monopoly status, prison!

      I'm waiting for step 7, George...

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    3. Re:heh by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 4, Funny

      What other industry refers to it's clientele as "Users", distrubutes "Fixes", and manages to make the price go up every year?

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    4. Re:heh by ThePromenader · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've always thought that the ONLY reason MS has its success is that they "got them young" - young meaning "first-time computer users". Since 1987, what was the first thing almost every PC buyer saw when he took his first spankin' new newfangled computer gadget home and turned it on? Ta-Da! Mr. Gate's crea... er... appropriation. Now how the heck do we use this thing? Better get learning... (Two years later) Oh, I need the next version of Windows to use that application that I need to stay competitive? (cash register sounds). "Yeah, I am tired of all the problems MS has but I don't know how to use anything else" (or "but I don't want to buy all the software again" or "everyone else is using it and I need my files that won't work with any other system to be compatible"). Indoctrination and coercion, kids.

      But the game's not the same anymore. Information is widespread, and first-time computer buyers are better informed. Cross-platform habits are becoming the norm (even QuickTime reads .wmv now). In short, today the cross-platform barriers aren't there anymore - or at least they're low enough to skip over. This makes almost moot any monopoly, and frees a computer-buyer to choose the platform/hardware that works best for him. With added stress on the "works".

      With the market the way it is today, Microsoft is going to have to innovate or die just like everybody else - and it's exactly in the innovation department where they're lacking. I'll start the popcorn - who brought the beer?

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
  3. The problem is internal by bananahead · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Microsoft's problems are as much internal as they are external. Certainly the company is under siege from many different directions, but that is the way free enterprise is supposed to work. Microsoft has been under siege for the last 15 years as the VC community and starry-eyed entrepreneurs took them on in every possible direction. This is the way it is, and this is the way it should be. Some will say it is more extreme now, but I suspect they have always said that. Microsoft likes being under siege, it gives them all a sense of purpose other than adding 16 more features to a word processor. It actually motivates them.

    That said, the bigger problem, as I have stated in the past, is internal. In the past Microsoft has been able to respond to a siege by motivating the troops and getting the job done. IE was possibly the last great example of the Microsoft development engine at work. Now, it is almost impossible for Microsoft to rally the developer troops for that kind of siege-mentality response. The employee apathy is thick. The old-timers can still get it up, those that are still there and haven't joined Ignition Partners or retired, but you have to keep in mind that most of the developers and program managers there today weren't there 5 years ago, and only know Microsoft as a bloated software factory. The glory years, the rally cry of Ballmer and Gates, the late night and weekender coding marathons and the 'death march' mentality are all just stories of the past. The current typical Microsoft employee is more of the 'hey, I have a family and a life, this can wait' style. Certainly there are pockets of exceptions, but generally speaking, the engine is running a bit cold.

    Without the means to execute, the siege will take its toll.

    --
    A most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is if they foul up there's no law against wacking them around a bit.
    1. Re:The problem is internal by dmaxwell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      GETTING a young company to a position of dominance is thrilling and exciting. People get rich along the way which helps too. MAINTAINING that dominance is harder. There aren't as many chances to get rich and it is harder to climb the ladder quickly. In addition to the apathy which is an inevitable result of becoming a mature and established company, MS is now the King of several Hills. Now it is knocking them off that is thrilling and exciting.

      If MS diversified more and didn't obsess over absolutely dominating the industry, they wouldn't be such the target. As it is, they are the "Evil Empire" and the Huns and Mongols getting hungry and sharpening their swords.

    2. Re:The problem is internal by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsoft, for all its faults, is still a desirable company for most techies to work at. They pay well, their name looks very good on a resume, and they have a history of having a rather geek-friendly corporate culture.

      No, they can't talk their employees into working past sunset all weekend long like in the 90s... but then again, no company has been able to do that since the .com bubble burst and techies finally realized that looking after yourself and your family is far more important than living up to the dreams of your CEO.

      Microsoft's shitty security has been a result of a short-sighted lack of emphasis, not capacity. Now that they are making it a priority, I have no doubt that Longhorn will be a relatively secure OS.

      Whenever it arrives, that is. Meanwhile... fuck it, I'm using OS X.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    3. Re:The problem is internal by bananahead · · Score: 4, Insightful
      All good points. The obsession comes from Bill, he hates to lose and drives the research groups very hard. The domination push comes from Ballmer. I was at a management session several years ago where he talked about his overall goals for Microsoft (this was an internal management meeting). He waxed on about how many hours a day people used Microsoft software. Given Windows and Office, he figured it was about 6-7 hours a day that people used a Microsoft product. He went on to state that there were, therefore, 18 or so hours a day that people weren't using Microsoft software, and HE WANTED THOSE 18 HOURS!. His goal, and you gotta love the guy for it, was that people should be using Microsoft software 24 hours a day.

      The obsession and drive from Ballmer and Gates are still there, my point is that the engine that pushes the Microsoft race car forward needs a serious valve job.

      --
      A most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is if they foul up there's no law against wacking them around a bit.
    4. Re:The problem is internal by syrinx · · Score: 5, Funny

      they only need to have their own cereal!

      Wind-O's?

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    5. Re:The problem is internal by jafac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mister Balmer:
      I will HAPPILY use Microsoft Software 24 hours a day if you meet these following requirements:

      1. Protect my privacy.
      2. Protect my systems security.
      3. Open your damn source-code, so I can be assured that you have done your due-dilligence for #1 and #2 and that I can be assured that the software will move forward after I incur the considerable expense of adopting it, that I can trust that the software won't be discontinued or abandoned, or taken in an unpalatable architectural direction.
      4. Open your damn internal Development and Test Procedures to independent audit (ie, become ISO-9001 certified) - so I can be assured that you have done your due-dilligence for #1 and #2.
      5. Don't charge me an arm and a leg. (I'm willing to PAY for excellence. I'm not willing to pay for mediocrity, with an "excellence" sticker slapped on, while you tell me with a straigh face "trust me, it's excellent!" - all while the world's computer systems crash and burn around us from vulnerabilities and flaws). If it's mediocre software, I will pay mediocre (free/beer) prices.
      6. I own my data. Let me do whatever the hell I want to with my data. (ie. open your file-formats, and stop trying to ram DRM down my throat).
      7. Stop buying and trashing other independent software vendors through predatory practices. If you satisfy 1-6, above, I still can't trust that a monopoly with no real competition, has any incentive to continue to do so.

      If you do that, I'll happily use Microsoft Software 24 hours a day, and I'll even pay to purchase (not rent) it.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  4. Computer literacy? by ZiakII · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the article:

    And it takes a fairly computer-literate user to install and maintain the open source operating system on a personal computer.

    I read this and instantly started thinking about this exactly how many window users can maintain there windows box properly? 90% of the users out there have no idea how to keep there windows updated, how to reinstall windows. The only difference is that Windows came preloaded on their machines. Now this is the only difference between the two operating systems. If a Linux machine came preloaded on a computer already with all the drivers installed it is the same exact thing on how people get their machines from dell.

    1. Re:Computer literacy? by blowdart · · Score: 4, Insightful
      90% of the users out there have no idea how to keep there windows updated, how to reinstall windows.

      By default the OS will keep itself updated, checking for updates and installing them, or prompting you to install them. Turning that off causes a little "You're at risk" icon to appear in the toolbar. Home users just see the updates come down and install.

      To reinstall it's put the restore CD in the drive and boot. Normally that will load up the correct 3rd party drivers as the PC manufacturer has put those into the restore process.

      Users don't need or want to know how to do these things, but if it becomes necessary it shouldn't take more than 5 keypresses.

    2. Re:Computer literacy? by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      how many window users can maintain their windows box properly

      Apparently not even Sir William H. Gates III can*. He has been hit by malware and spyware in the past.

      *Details in the fifth paragraph.

  5. microsoft is done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft earned $0.75 per share in its 2004 fiscal year. That's hardly impressive for a stock that sells for nearly $28 a share. If Microsoft is done growing then its investors are going to be very unhappy. That's a return of just under 3% a year. A year with no revenue growth would be even worse.

    Not to mention the fact that there is little guarantee that Microsoft will continue to be able to rake in the kind of money that they are currently pulling in. Unearned revenue continues to go down, and Linux continues to gain marketshare. Eventually MSFT investors are going to get tired of waiting for the growth to return and MSFT is going to drop like a rock. When that happens Microsoft is going to *look* vulnerable. Right now the folks selling for Red Hat and Novell have to convince their clients that they aren't crazy when they forgo the safe path of purchasing Windows. Folks that roll out Linux solutions are still taking a fairly big risk. They are betting on a David facing up against the biggest Goliath in the history of industry, and the reason that the story of David and Goliath made it into the Bible was because in real life David's get squashed. Everyone likes an underdog, but only when they win.

    A serious drop in MSFT would be hitting the behemoth right smack between the eyes, and such a drop is overdue.

  6. The cure is worse than the disease... by phayes · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "His promise: Longhorn, the next version of the Windows operating system, will make malicious software (malware) that gets onto computers without the users' knowledge 'a thing of the past'."

    By using TCPA to lock out all non Microsoft authorized software & just coincidentally eliminate the open software threat to the Microsoft Monopoly.

    Sorry, I refuse to play along...

    --
    Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  7. Microsoft v. Linux by vishbar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Before I say this, let it be known that I am just as much of a Linux zealot as you probably are.

    My father works for the local power company developing customer support systems. Rather than an Open Source alternative, such as Linux, they opted to go with Microsoft Windows. The reason? Costs. They figured that the TCO of Linux, including support, training developers, etc. would actually be more expensive than the licensing fees that a Windows solution would incur.

    This being said, I would have personally gone with a Linux setup. I think that the former situation exemplifies one of the biggest misconceptions about Linux: people think that, because it's not provided by a corporation, if you have a problem, you're screwed. That's why the support services provided by Red Hat and IBM are so vital. Corporations can't just go on a developer's word that their system works well. They need someone that they can sue if something goes hugely wrong and they lose everything due to an operating system glitch. Red Hat provides a much-needed corporate backing to an already-great operating system. Most of the misconceptions out there about Linux are due to FUD spread by MS. If the open source community can simply overcome the stereotypes of Linux as having no support at all, then I think we'll see Linux begin to totally take over MS's marketshare.

    --
    Ride the skies
    1. Re:Microsoft v. Linux by Seydlitz · · Score: 5, Insightful
      They need someone that they can sue if something goes hugely wrong and they lose everything due to an operating system glitch

      Erm - if they honestly believe they can sue Microsoft for loss of data or, indeed, anything at all, they are sorely mistaken. Have they read the EULA recently? Microsoft are NOT liable for anything that Windows does - their fault or not.

      At least with IBM & Linux you have a support framework in place - unlike Windows, where support is patchy at best.

    2. Re:Microsoft v. Linux by phayes · · Score: 4, Informative
      "They need someone that they can sue if something goes hugely wrong and they lose everything due to an operating system glitch."

      Red-Herring: No-one, I repeat, No-one has ever successfully sued MS for damages after something went hugely wrong due to a bug in Windows. According to the Windows Terms of Use, damages are limited to what was paid for Windows.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  8. Re:and I quote: by dmaxwell · · Score: 4, Funny

    "His promise: Longhorn, the next version of the Windows operating system, will make malicious software (malware) that gets onto computers without the users' knowledge "a thing of the past"."
    -Bill Gates


    That just might possibly dethrone the 640kb crack. I know, I know, it isn't what he meant and is misconstrued. THIS little gem is fairly unambigous. Yes, let's remember it.

  9. Duh... by mattmentecky · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Explain to me, when a company (or anything for that matter) is on top (Come on people, Microsoft has a ton of cash, and a ton of marketshare in lots of areas) logically are they not the most vulnerable? I mean, they have no where to go but down. It seems every so often that reporters need a fluff piece to phone-in so they choose a company in whatever field and do an "investigative" piece to determine the company vulerable.

    It is how the market works, when you are on top people focus on your vulnerabilities in order to bring you down.

  10. That battle the article missed... by CHESTER+COPPERPOT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I like how they use the word battle. Lately I've been reading a book called The Dynamics of Military Revolution, 1300-2050. The book centers around what makes a succesful military revolution. Since they are using the term 'battles' and are in need of a revolution of sorts I'll point out what the book stated.

    The basic crux of the book is that concentrating on technology doesn't make a revolution nor does it win battles. All 6 battles in the article revolve around marketing and technology. It's pretty sad state of affairs when people solely concentrate on technology and the marketing thereof over other aspects. What makes a more successful state of revolution in battle is the coalescing of technology, organization, strategy, internal culture and leadership. I would like to see such an analysis done on Microsoft.

    How is M$ leadership?

    How is M$ internal culture? Does it have low morale or high hopes for the future?

    What is the make up of M$ strategic culture? Do they have any other strategy apart from monopolizing?

    Such questions would give a much more accurate picture for the future of M$ success.

  11. Re:too funny, as usual by QMO · · Score: 5, Funny

    He'll do it by changing the definition of malware.

    --
    Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
  12. Re:This is predictable by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Market share in almost every market they are in?

    Billions in thier war-chest?

    Billions in R&D?

    HUGE network of partners and providers?

    .............

    Hey, not saying they are untouchable and couldn't fall but you really have to ask what thier advantages are???????

    --
    "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  13. Product development. by nosfucious · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft's real product development (not innovation) lately has only occurred in areas that it has been kicked in.

    Lets have a look at what's hot or not at MS:
    Exchange Server - incremental development only recently. 5.5 was the last "must have" upgrade. Domino was a major workgroup compeditor, it's still there, but not dominant. Plenty of F/OSS secure and configurable email servers about.
    SQL Server - Really moving. MySQL and Postgres at the low end, DB2 and Oracle at the high end with competing products.
    Enterprise authentication - Incremental improvents only recently. Active Directory is dominant, NDS in non-Novell shops is unheard of. Other LDAP based products are just getting a toenail hold.
    Browsers - IE dominant and stagnant. With Firefox and Opera (et al), MS is finally ramping up development of a new version.
    Office products - Office95/97 was a big improvement, but most users wouldn't use the new features in XP/2003 versions. Various FOSS office products are fast approaching "drop-in" replacements for most uses and users. Don't know where MS can go with this one.
    IIS - Apache is market leader by most measures, IIS is too tied to the underlying OS. Not much room to improve.
    File and print services. Still a lot of offices will have this as one of the most important IT function, along with financials. Samba/CUPS is a more than adequate replacement. MS's file sharing security-model hasn't improved much since the introduction of NTFS and share permissions. No notificable improvements in speed between NT4 and Server 2003 on comparable hardware.

    Issues like security and patching have improved vastly, but still have a way to go.

    Management of servers is still mainly point and click, but with improvements in 'scriptability'. Still waiting for the simplicity of configuration of an "/etc" folder with a series of .conf files for easy parsing/reading and maintenance.

    The big worry for MS is that it is and will continue to lose "mind-share". It's not cool to be working with MS products. It's products are only moving forward where a serious compeditor exists.

    The only thing propping MS up is an "out of the box", polished UI. However, it soon pisses off power users and is also too closely tied to the OS. Works fine for Aunt Ethel, and that's fine for Dell (et al)

    The lastest generation of net-admins or programmers will be equally experienced on Unix-likes or MS, unless they went to school in a MS-only brainwashing shop.

    I'd consider MS will under attack.

    --
    Q:I was listening to a CD in Grip and it sounded horrible! What's up? A:Perhaps you are listening to country music
  14. do you really want by blue_adept · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And "do you really want to have your security issues discussed by the Linux developer community on a public bulletin board," queries Alistair Baker of Microsoft UK.

    ummmm.... yes?

    --

    "Is this just useless, or is it expensive as well?"
  15. Why Microsoft is Invulnerable by starseeker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft will not be "defeated" in the sense of vanishing from the field as a software company. Ever. They have achieved what is probably the most pervasive and addictive vendor lock-in situation in all of human history. An incredible amount of the information critical to maintaining our society at its current level is stored on, written for, and run by Windows computers.

    Remember, users will now INSIST on Windows, because they want it/know it/are used to it. This is even better than making it a legal requirement to use Windows or threatening people (by whatever means) to use Windows or else. A vast number of addicts (the situation is surprisingly analogous) to Windows will DEMAND it in spite of anything else, becasue for them it makes life easier.

    What might happen is Microsoft will lower their prices and improve their quality to prevent the beginnings of a migration to another product - if they make their customers unhappy (i.e. take away what they're plugged in to) something might happen. But Microsoft will never do this. Their tendancy towards not changing anything is actually a bonus for most people, who want to learn a computer once and never have it do anything unexpected for the rest of their lives. (Please note that although I find this frustrating, it is neither surprising or blameworthy - I don't want to relearn how to drive or perform basic car maintainance every few years.) Competition does not produce products like that, since change is integral to competition. And if by some chance real innovation becomes a requirement, Microsoft may in fact be able to achieve this. We don't know - they haven't had to try. But Microsoft R&D has some good people, and it may be that if Microsoft's survival suddenly depends on an innovate product rather than an essentially-unchanging-but-incrementally-improving one they will be able to do it.

    Microsoft is here to stay, in all cases where users choose stability/familiarity over performance. There are, of course, areas of society where the choice will go the other way, where people are willing to put in the extra time and effort to learn something out of the ordinary. But those will always be the exceptions, and they will only serve as a minor annoyance for Microsoft. Linux only gets so much press because of the novelty of it's pricetag and philosophy. There is no such thing as an "up and coming" Microsoft competitor. Apple produces an infinitely better product, and their market share is fairly fixed. Linux is decimating commercial Unix, but Unix users are both more familiar with the basic principles of the system and (of sheer necessity) more adaptable.

    Linux will have successes - it will displace Windows in some cases, maybe even a lot of them. But most of the market share is businesses, and businesses will avoid risks that are not integral to their core business if they can. Microsoft is The Standard (de facto) and that fact is unlikely to change for the forseeable future.

    --
    "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
  16. "without their knowledge" by devphaeton · · Score: 4, Funny

    His promise: Longhorn, the next version of the Windows operating system, will make malicious software (malware) that gets onto computers without the users' knowledge 'a thing of the past'."

    Instead, Longhorn will have a nifty lil pop-up that says:

    "Windows has successfully installed a new Trojan Horse/Adserver. Before you can bein using this program
    you must restart the computer. Would you like to restart the computer now?"
    [Yes] [Ok]

    --


    do() || do_not(); // try();